The Brand New Lucroy Trade Thread

[NievesNoNO]

I liked the Cleveland package a lot more than a free swinging guy like Gallo and some B level prospects. Talk that the Brewers would have to include one of their relievers just to get Gallo in the deal is nuts. Mejia is a guy much in the mold of Wilson Contreras and would have eventually filled a key position on the field. Yes the prospects were at a lower level but at Mejia looks like a fast riser.

 

Agreed, plus it was for just Lucroy. It doesn't sound like Texas will do just Lucroy. Now, they have the talent to give equal value back but I'm guessing the Brewers at this stage might be inclined to settle on something less. I hope I'm wrong.

 

I'm not all that high on Gallo either, however he has shown improvement with his k%.

[jerichoholicninja]

Any chance that Houston jumps in here at the last minute and makes us an offer we can't refuse:

 

Houston gets Luc and Guerra

 

Brewers get Reed, Musgrove, M. Sierra and Franklin Perez

 

I would love to see it. Musgrove may start tonight because Fister's wife is supposed to have a baby. He's the real deal. Reed is going to be great. That would probably sting the most. But it gets the Astros Luc and not the Rangers, so I'm all over it. I wonder if the Brewers would want Castro or Gattis back as well.

 

Oh hell no on Gattis. He can't play defense at any position and can only hit homeruns. Our front office has finally (mostly, Carter excluded) moved past their love for that type of player.

[MKE81]

Regarding Gallo, the only hesitation I've seen from people on here is his K rate. The past 3yrs he's ranged between 41-43% and this year he's at 37% in AAA so he's improved. Clearly that's still high. He's consistently been very young for his level and has always struggled moving up to the next level (outside of starting season at A+) in the 2nd half of a season. Then came back the next year and performed much better at that level. If given 500AB at AAA this year he's on pace for 39HR. At 22 he's still very young for that level as well, similar to Arcia. They'll both only get better as they mature and gain experience because the skill set is there. If Gallo is a 250/350 hitter with 40HR+ playing either corner spot you'll take it and won't question it (I do think he ends up at 1b and will be just fine defensively there).

 

If this is a "blockbuster" trade and Stearns is still shopping guys individually then I'd assume it's because he's fine accepting that trade but thinks he might still be able to pull off a better deal in his mind for Lucroy alone (or packaged with 1 reliever). If there's a big haul going to TX I'd hope Gallo, Mendez are 2 players for sure coming back

[Boomer5]

I think no matter what happens, a lot of fans will be disappointed for the moment. I say this because the Cleveland deal was not a bad one, yet many people hated it - I also say this because the Cleveland deal wasn't as good as any of us had hoped - we all wanted two players of Mejia's caliber, including a pitcher.

 

Either the Brewers will give more than we hoped to get what we had hoped for, or the Brewers will only get part of what we had hoped for - that's how this looks to me now.

 

At this point, I'm going to be more focused on the quality of the players the Brewers get today over what position they play, or how close to the big leagues they are. If we get zero pitchers, some of you will faint, if we do or do not get Joey Gallo some of you will faint - whatever the combination, I just don't see puppy dogs and sunshine for the lot of us.

 

Get talent. That's it. At this stage of a complete rebuild, just go get the best baseball players you can get, and work from there. There will be plenty of time to shuffle bodies later, and no prospect has ever come with a guarantee of success.

 

Get talent, go from there.

 

I do agree with this post. We need to pick up elite talent, as our organization is filling up nicely with good players but not great players.

 

Why didn't I like the Cleveland trade? We boxed ourselves into making catcher the priority target. In large part due to the Nottingham regression/never was at the position. We all like Mejia but he is an A ball catcher and those are never strong bets. As hot as he was, he did have red flags in his receiving skills (not arm of course) and his alleged attitude issues. The other guys were nice pieces in a volume trade for sure but incredibly redundant players for the current profile of our system.

 

Yes, you don't necessarily care about position at this stage of the rebuilding phase, which is in the 2nd or 3rd inning now. That's why you dont worry about trading Luc and spending some, or in the the case of the Cleveland deal, most, of the trade capital on a catcher. You do however need to develop impact pitching and when you trade your best chip for a C, OF, and SS, you arent doing yourself any favors in building a team that already has plenty of middle infielders and light hitting OFers. Maybe thats Stearns idea of market inefficiency? Pick up as many middle infielders as you can because the market doesn't value them? I dont know but it seems too "cute" for my tastes as the two things you cant teach are power bats and power arms. The league doesnt value middle infielders who dont hit for power, they don't value stolen bases, and they don't value corner OF's who don't hit for power. So you can corner the market all you want at those positions/skills and unless the market really changes, it wont matter.

 

I dont mind going for A ball players at this point in the rebuild. In theory, the father away from being major league ready you go, the more the upside you can acquire.

[craigharmann]

Any chance that Houston jumps in here at the last minute and makes us an offer we can't refuse:

 

Houston gets Luc and Guerra

 

Brewers get Reed, Musgrove, M. Sierra and Franklin Perez

 

I would love to see it. Musgrove may start tonight because Fister's wife is supposed to have a baby. He's the real deal. Reed is going to be great. That would probably sting the most. But it gets the Astros Luc and not the Rangers, so I'm all over it. I wonder if the Brewers would want Castro or Gattis back as well.

 

Oh hell no on Gattis. He can't play defense at any position and can only hit homeruns. Our front office has finally (mostly, Carter excluded) moved past their love for that type of player.

 

He's caught and done really well at throwing runners out. I live in Houston and follow the Astros. He isn't as feast or famine as Carter, but he's definitely not a contact hitter.

[UMBrewer]

Any chance that Houston jumps in here at the last minute and makes us an offer we can't refuse:

 

Houston gets Luc and Guerra

 

Brewers get Reed, Musgrove, M. Sierra and Franklin Perez

 

I would love to see it. Musgrove may start tonight because Fister's wife is supposed to have a baby. He's the real deal. Reed is going to be great. That would probably sting the most. But it gets the Astros Luc and not the Rangers, so I'm all over it. I wonder if the Brewers would want Castro or Gattis back as well.

 

No one is going to get Reed, but if you are dealing with the Astros, you need to center deal on Martes, Musgrove, Paulino or Kyle Tucker, and then as your secondary pieces Derek Fisher is a necessity as is Albert Abreu (if you send an arm), and if you dont then ask for James Hoyt as part of that deal.

 

And if this "lowering expectations" thing comes to be the thing that keeps the Brewers from dealing Lucroy, this all lies on Stearns. You have to play to the market and what it is willing to pay. Lucroy's value is only going to decrease after today. And he has zero value to the rebuiling Brewers right now if he is still on the team tomorrow.He needs to be listening to best offers, make a counter if you need to, and live with the consequences. It only gets worse in the offseason.

[And That]

Gattis is not the kind of player Stearns is after. I would be shocked if the Astros traded him, and especially shocked if it was to the Brewers.

[bill hAll Star]

Gattis is useless unless there is a plan to flip him again. Let Maldy finish the season and sign some journeyman "pitching trainer" for 2017 for $1 million.

[And That]

We boxed ourselves into making catcher the priority target. In large part due to the Nottingham regression/never was at the position.

Catcher was not the priority target. The Brewers (reportedly) asked for one of Zimmer/Frazier/Mejia. Two of those three guys are not catchers. The two teams agreed on Mejia.

 

And none of it probably had anything to do with Nottingham - not sure why you love bagging on him so much.

[craigharmann]

Any chance that Houston jumps in here at the last minute and makes us an offer we can't refuse:

 

Houston gets Luc and Guerra

 

Brewers get Reed, Musgrove, M. Sierra and Franklin Perez

 

I would love to see it. Musgrove may start tonight because Fister's wife is supposed to have a baby. He's the real deal. Reed is going to be great. That would probably sting the most. But it gets the Astros Luc and not the Rangers, so I'm all over it. I wonder if the Brewers would want Castro or Gattis back as well.

 

No one is going to get Reed, but if you are dealing with the Astros, you need to center deal on Martes, Musgrove, Paulino or Kyle Tucker, and then as your secondary pieces Derek Fisher is a necessity as is Albert Abreu (if you send an arm), and if you dont then ask for James Hoyt as part of that deal.

 

And if this "lowering expectations" thing comes to be the thing that keeps the Brewers from dealing Lucroy, this all lies on Stearns. You have to play to the market and what it is willing to pay. Lucroy's value is only going to decrease after today. And he has zero value to the rebuiling Brewers right now if he is still on the team tomorrow.He needs to be listening to best offers, make a counter if you need to, and live with the consequences. It only gets worse in the offseason.

 

Reed could go....if it was for Sale or something big. Martes would be tough to give up. I'd love to see one or both of them in the rotation now. Hoyt needs to be in the bullpen now.

[splitterpfj]

Stearns likes athletic, "up the middle guys" - he's not going to care if anyone else thinks he has enough shortstops. The theory is, the more athletic a guy is, the more he can do for you, and you find the athletes in the middle of the field.

 

The Brewers chose Mejia over Frazier in the Cleveland deal, (yes really), not because Mejia's a catcher, but because Cleveland gave them the secondary pieces they wanted if they went with Mejia. The real gamble there was Yu-Cheng Chang - scouts just love him.

 

On Chang - he was the guy New York wanted for Aroldis Chapman, and now he's the guy New York wants for Carlos Beltran - he has the attention of the scouts.

 

On middle infielders - Gorman Thomas, Jim Gantner, Robin Yount, and Paul Molitor were all drafted as shortstops - they were MLB teammates for years. Get athletes with baseball skills, and play them where they fit.

 

Based on that last statement, and based on my own observations of David Stearns' short time as a GM - the Brewers may not care if they don't get Joey Gallo.

[jerichoholicninja]

Gattis has a career sub .300 OBP and for a power hitter has a rather pedestrian .770 OPS. Not to mention he'll be 30 this month. I personally have no interest in seeing anymore of these all or nothing hitters in Milwaukee, Gallo included. The game has changed and while homeruns definitely have value you need to be getting on base in your other at bats too. I guess he's an upgrade over Maldonado, and Pinto, and whatever random catchers we'll be running out there the rest of the year but he just doesn't really bring that much value, especially long term.

[MrTPlush]

Rangers looking desperate for big time move and Sale looks rather unlikely. Wonder if Stearns is trying to pressure them into adding more?

[Boomer5]

We boxed ourselves into making catcher the priority target. In large part due to the Nottingham regression/never was at the position.

Catcher was not the priority target. The Brewers (reportedly) asked for one of Zimmer/Frazier/Mejia. Two of those three guys are not catchers. The two teams agreed on Mejia.

 

And none of it probably had anything to do with Nottingham - not sure why you love bagging on him so much.

 

You can call it "bagging", its just stating facts. Maybe facts you dont want to hear, but facts nonetheless.

 

Zimmer was obviously available, so it appears the Brewers chose catcher over OFer. They wouldn't have done that had they had a future All Star Catcher at AA.

[Boomer5]

Stearns likes athletic, "up the middle guys" - he's not going to care if anyone else thinks he has enough shortstops. The theory is, the more athletic a guy is, the more he can do for you, and you find the athletes in the middle of the field.

 

The Brewers chose Mejia over Frazier in the Cleveland deal, (yes really), not because Mejia's a catcher, but because Cleveland gave them the secondary pieces they wanted if they went with Mejia. The real gamble there was Yu-Cheng Chang - scouts just love him.

 

On Chang - he was the guy New York wanted for Aroldis Chapman, and now he's the guy New York wants for Carlos Beltran - he has the attention of the scouts.

 

On middle infielders - Gorman Thomas, Jim Gantner, Robin Yount, and Paul Molitor were all drafted as shortstops - they were MLB teammates for years. Get athletes with baseball skills, and play them where they fit.

 

Based on that last statement, and based on my own observations of David Stearns' short time as a GM - the Brewers may not care if they don't get Joey Gallo.

 

Thats a fair comment. Go for SS then move them around as needed. I can buy that.

 

I agree Gallo doesn't fit what he has gone for so far.

[MrTPlush]

We boxed ourselves into making catcher the priority target. In large part due to the Nottingham regression/never was at the position.

Catcher was not the priority target. The Brewers (reportedly) asked for one of Zimmer/Frazier/Mejia. Two of those three guys are not catchers. The two teams agreed on Mejia.

 

And none of it probably had anything to do with Nottingham - not sure why you love bagging on him so much.

 

You can call it "bagging", its just stating facts. Maybe facts you dont want to hear, but facts nonetheless.

 

Zimmer was obviously available, so it appears the Brewers chose catcher over OFer. They wouldn't have done that had they had a future All Star Catcher at AA.

 

I want this link to where Zimmer was available for Lucroy. Please show me. You keep acting like one was available for Lucroy. Where is the proof?

[DR28]

Doesn't Gallo compare to Chris Davis of the O's?

 

They didn't have a problem with his K's, giving him a $161 million.

[MrTPlush]

Doesn't Gallo compare to Chris Davis of the O's?

 

They didn't have a problem with his K's, giving him a $161 million.

 

If you think he can hit .270+

[bill hAll Star]

Doesn't Gallo compare to Chris Davis of the O's?

 

They didn't have a problem with his K's, giving him a $161 million.

 

Chris Davis actually followed a very similar path as a 3B in the minors with Texas, then eventually moving to 1B after getting moved to Baltimore.

 

Here's the difference: Davis batted .280-.300 in his minors stops. I'm not a batting average guy, but that shows that he at least had some sort of ability to contact the ball. The bigger key is that he only struck out about 23% of the time in the minors.

 

Gallo is hitting .250 in the minors with a 35% strikeout rate. It's quite possible that he hits .190 every year with a 40% K-rate in the majors.

[DR28]

Doesn't Gallo compare to Chris Davis of the O's?

 

They didn't have a problem with his K's, giving him a $161 million.

 

If you think he can hit .270+

 

Ah ok... I forgot Chris had a decent average in 2013 & 2015 with all the HR's... But he still hit .196 in 2014.

[Mr Southpaw]

Stearns likes athletic, "up the middle guys" - he's not going to care if anyone else thinks he has enough shortstops. The theory is, the more athletic a guy is, the more he can do for you, and you find the athletes in the middle of the field.

 

The Brewers chose Mejia over Frazier in the Cleveland deal, (yes really), not because Mejia's a catcher, but because Cleveland gave them the secondary pieces they wanted if they went with Mejia. The real gamble there was Yu-Cheng Chang - scouts just love him.

 

On Chang - he was the guy New York wanted for Aroldis Chapman, and now he's the guy New York wants for Carlos Beltran - he has the attention of the scouts.

 

On middle infielders - Gorman Thomas, Jim Gantner, Robin Yount, and Paul Molitor were all drafted as shortstops - they were MLB teammates for years. Get athletes with baseball skills, and play them where they fit.

 

Based on that last statement, and based on my own observations of David Stearns' short time as a GM - the Brewers may not care if they don't get Joey Gallo.

This is exactly how you should draft....shortstops, catchers and starting pitchers. Catchers can become corner infielders or corner outfielders and shortstops can go anywhere but catcher. Starting pitchers can become relievers. Always do this and you will be successful.

[And That]

You can call it "bagging", its just stating facts.

No, it's not. I'm not going to get into a Nottingham debate here, but go read some scouting reports. He's far from a "never was" at the position, no matter how many times you say it. Which is a lot. Every day. Multiple times. Sometimes even going for a Gary Carter strawman.

 

If the Brewers trade for a catcher, it is because Stearns likes up the middle guys, just like splitter said. It says nothing about Nottingham. Actually it is why Stearns traded for Nottingham in the first place.

[DR28]

Doesn't Gallo compare to Chris Davis of the O's?

 

They didn't have a problem with his K's, giving him a $161 million.

 

Chris Davis actually followed a very similar path as a 3B in the minors with Texas, then eventually moving to 1B after getting moved to Baltimore.

 

Here's the difference: Davis batted .280-.300 in his minors stops. I'm not a batting average guy, but that shows that he at least had some sort of ability to contact the ball. The bigger key is that he only struck out about 23% of the time in the minors.

 

Gallo is hitting .250 in the minors with a 35% strikeout rate. It's quite possible that he hits .190 every year with a 40% K-rate in the majors.

 

Got it!

 

Makes sense... But with Gallo being only 22, I would love to see him be in Milwaukee and if he can make the necessary adjustments to be a better AVG hitter.

[Boomer5]

I want this link to where Zimmer was available for Lucroy. Please show me. You keep acting like one was available for Lucroy. Where is the proof?

 

I wasnt in the war room and neither were you. But Zimmer was traded, just not to the Brewers. Mejia was traded, to the Brewers. Both trades were multiple pieces so it wasnt just Zimmer or Mejia one for one. Seems either would have been available, but the Brewers just chose the Mejia lead package vs the Zimmer lead package (which may or may not have not included the same extra pieces).

 

Zimmer was available, clearly since he was traded. I guess we can argue Miller vs Luc but it would be tough to say one is many leaps over the other.

[fondybrewfan]

Still can't believe there is nothing cooking that has been leaked yet for Lucroy or really anyone else. It is crunch time.