The Brand New Lucroy Trade Thread

[schmidtac20]

Do the Brewers make the playoffs in 2012 if Greinke wasn't traded?

 

Still, no.

The guys that came up to fill in the rotation were lights out for the second half.

The truly sad part of that team was Krod and Axford, guys who excelled the prior year. We make the playoffs easily if we could save a game that year.

 

 

You are correct. I forgot how dreadful they were that year. Wow.

[Baldkin]

1. Do the Brewers make playoffs in 2012 if Greinke not traded. (5 GB).

2. Do the Brewers make the playoffs in 2014 if garza doesn't get screwed on call vs cardinals ( he had one hitter I believe through 6 Brewers were 5 games up at time and a bad call swept momentum to 4 games). It was August 3rd.

 

1) No.

2) The 2014 team ended with a negative run differential. The idea that they were some great team simply isn't true.

Over the last three months of the season they were outscored 267 - 314!!

The fact that ownership looked at that team in the offseason and thought, "We are fine" was a huge failing.

[schmidtac20]

Do Brewers win game 1 in Philly if Mike Cameron catches ball ?

 

 

Series?

[Oxy]

I understand that this thread has gone off the rails with stupid hypotheticals, and I am partly to blame with my trade proposal. Still, I kind of feel like my Brewer fandom has gone off the rails the last couple of years or so with equally ridiculous hypotheticals about rebuilding a farm system that is being highly rated by internet dorks. With very few actual results on the field to show for it! Like the MINOR LEAGUE field, not the MLB ballclub.

[logan82]

I understand that this thread has gone off the rails with stupid hypotheticals, and I am partly to blame with my trade proposal. Still, I kind of feel like my Brewer fandom has gone off the rails the last couple of years or so with equally ridiculous hypotheticals about rebuilding a farm system that is being highly rated by internet dorks. With very few actual results on the field to show for it! Like the MINOR LEAGUE field, not the MLB ballclub.

Our farm system has been crap since we traded for Greinke and didn't start to turn around until about the time of the Gomez trade last year. I am not sure why you would expect results on the MLB field within a year of becoming better.

[splitterpfj]

I'm getting a real good kick out of all the Gallo talk.

 

Gallo is not a Stearns guy. He is major league ready and would take a lot of the value out of Lucroy/Jeffress.

 

I talked to my Brewers scout friend again this afternoon. He scouted the Rangers system for a good two weeks. This morning his superior called and asked for more info on Yohander Mendez, Pedro Payano, Andy Ibanez, Josh Morgan, Ariel Jurado, Leody Taveras, and Ronald Guzman.

 

If I were a betting man, I would guess a Lucroy and Jeffress package to the Rangers will bring back 4-7 guys and will include some of the above.

 

My friend really like Pedro Payano and thinks he is the diamond in the rough. Nasty stuff.

 

How much for all seven?

[beekay414]

Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

You are. Quantity isn't going to get Archer or Teheran. They are asking for multiple top prospects, especially Atlanta. IIRC, they requested both Yoan Moncada and Andrew Benintendi from Boston. Archer's price isn't much different. The package you proposed isn't anywhere near enough to get those done. Saying it's easy to get an ace is just unbelievably inaccurate.

 

Stearns is doing it right for our market. You stock the system and keep replenishing it so you always have ammo down the line when you're ready for a shot. If we rush this, we'll just be the mediocre franchise we've been the last decade outside of 1 or 2 seasons. You know how we got Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, etc? We were awful and were fortunate to pick high enough to land those types of talent. It's nowhere near as easy as you're trying to suggest.

[Oxy]

Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

You are

 

So, you would or you wouldn't take the 10 for 2 deal I proposed?

 

EDIT: I responded too soon, as you soon elaborated.

[beekay414]

Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

You are

 

So, you would or you wouldn't take the 10 for 2 deal I proposed?

 

Check the edit

[Oxy]

Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

You are. Quantity isn't going to get Archer or Teheran. They are asking for multiple top prospects, especially Atlanta. IIRC, they requested both Yoan Moncada and Andrew Benintendi from Boston. Archer's price isn't much different. The package you proposed isn't anywhere near enough to get those done. Saying it's easy to get an ace is just unbelievably inaccurate.

 

Stearns is doing it right for our market. You stock the system and keep replenishing it so you always have ammo down the line when you're ready for a shot. If we rush this, we'll just be the mediocre franchise we've been the last decade outside of 1 or 2 seasons. You know how we got Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, etc? We were awful and were fortunate to pick high enough to land those types of talent. It's nowhere near as easy as you're trying to suggest.

 

 

I never said it was easy, but at some point the sheer quantity has to balance out the trade, especially when 7/10 of my "quantity" side of the proposal were 1st or 2nd round draft picks. That should be a lot of upside, no?

 

It is more of a curiosity of mine about internet rankings and the draft/scouting industry,which I think has perpetuated itself beyond it's usefulness. If people want to trade for Gallo so bad, I'd say that we should turn the tables and try to get good 25 and 26 year old players ( a la Archer and Teheran) and trade our 21 and 22 year old 1st round draft picks, who I think are getting an unearned boost because people want them to be better than they actually are in order to justify their rankings.

 

Again, perhaps I'm wrong.

 

 

(Also, the best thing about this site IS its focus on young players, scouting and development....sometimes it just kind of shocks me just how pervasive this sentiment has become)

[Boomer5]

It's not about quantity, it's about quality. This system isn't lacking in Scooters, it's lacking in Brauns and Fielders.

[dlk9s]

I'm about to start reading The Great Gatsby in this thread.

[Mr Southpaw]

Looks like no news over night.

[Eye Black]

This is from Jon Heyman during the overnight hours. Not necessarily any new information, but hopefully a life preserver for this thread.

 

@JonHeyman: rangers talking about lucroy and perhaps a reliever comin w/him. joey gallo coulld be in it, as @Sullivan_Ranger said

[Mr Southpaw]

This would due for me

 

Luc and JJ

 

for

 

Gallo and six (6) (maybe five) of the following, three (3) from the top five and three (3) from the bottom five and at least three pitchers...

 

4 SP Mendez AA

5 SP Tate A

7 OF Taveras R

8 1B Guzman AA

11 SP Jurado AA

15 SP Sadzeck AA

17 SS Morgan A+

19 SS De Leon A+

23 SS Yrizarri A

24 SP Payano A

[JosephC]

RHP-Dillon Tate kind of worries me. He was listed in the top 50 overall on many lists at the beginning of the season but has disappeared from most top 100 lists. The results haven't been good so far this year but Texas has been developing him as a starter while he had mostly been a reliever. His third pitch is a circle change and it isn't very good, he's throwing it much more in an attempt to develop that third pitch and that's probably part of the reason for his mediocre performance this year. He was a really high pick and his value may be over-inflated because of that. Intriguing arm, but have to wonder if he'll be a starter or bullpen guy. Definitely a player that scouts will have to do their homework on. Based on what I've read, I think there is a pretty big dropoff between RHP-Luis Ortiz/LHP-Yohander Mendez and Tate.

[BuckyBrewer61]

For a trade everyone seems to be assuming is going to happen, it's been awfully quiet for 12+ hours. Even overnight, in today's world of social media that is a bit concerning...but maybe without the Mets involved there's just no one out there to throw rumors out there left and right.

[Madhawk23]

This would due for me

 

Luc and JJ

 

for

 

Gallo and six (6) (maybe five) of the following, three (3) from the top five and three (3) from the bottom five and at least three pitchers...

 

4 SP Mendez AA

5 SP Tate A

7 OF Taveras R

8 1B Guzman AA

11 SP Jurado AA

15 SP Sadzeck AA

17 SS Morgan A+

19 SS De Leon A+

23 SS Yrizarri A

24 SP Payano A

 

A few days ago, I would have been right there with you in terms of my expectations on a return for Luc/Jeffress. However, after seeing the deal that was supposed to go down with Cleveland for Lucroy, I don't think there is any way we get this type of return for both guys. If I had to guess right now, I would say that a Luc/JJ package would probably net us: Gallo, Guzman, Jurado and Morgan. I would love to swap Mendez into this deal in place of Jurado or Morgan, but I doubt that would happen.

 

The fact that we were originally going to get a borderline Top 100 player in Mejia, and then two "OK" prospects from the Indians really tells me that the market just isn't where we all hoped it would be for Luc. So, if we were just trading him by himself to Texas, I'm guessing we'd probably get a package of Mendez, Guzman and Morgan. Throw in JJ, and that probably motivates Texas to up their offer to Gallo (even though I'd probably prefer Mendez) and then they add in someone like Jurado.

 

Just my opinion based off of what we now know is Luc's value on the market.

[Mr Southpaw]

This would due for me

 

Luc and JJ

 

for

 

Gallo and six (6) (maybe five) of the following, three (3) from the top five and three (3) from the bottom five and at least three pitchers...

 

4 SP Mendez AA

5 SP Tate A

7 OF Taveras R

8 1B Guzman AA

11 SP Jurado AA

15 SP Sadzeck AA

17 SS Morgan A+

19 SS De Leon A+

23 SS Yrizarri A

24 SP Payano A

 

A few days ago, I would have been right there with you in terms of my expectations on a return for Luc/Jeffress. However, after seeing the deal that was supposed to go down with Cleveland for Lucroy, I don't think there is any way we get this type of return for both guys. If I had to guess right now, I would say that a Luc/JJ package would probably net us: Gallo, Guzman, Jurado and Morgan. I would love to swap Mendez into this deal in place of Jurado or Morgan, but I doubt that would happen.

 

The fact that we were originally going to get a borderline Top 100 player in Mejia, and then two "OK" prospects from the Indians really tells me that the market just isn't where we all hoped it would be for Luc. So, if we were just trading him by himself to Texas, I'm guessing we'd probably get a package of Mendez, Guzman and Morgan. Throw in JJ, and that probably motivates Texas to up their offer to Gallo (even though I'd probably prefer Mendez) and then they add in someone like Jurado.

 

Just my opinion based off of what we now know is Luc's value on the market.

JJ is worth Mendez, Jurado and Payano

Luc is then Gallo, Guzmann and Morgan

 

edit

 

If they need more , pay for next year of Garza's salary and they get a back end starter.

[Madhawk23]

This would due for me

 

Luc and JJ

 

for

 

Gallo and six (6) (maybe five) of the following, three (3) from the top five and three (3) from the bottom five and at least three pitchers...

 

4 SP Mendez AA

5 SP Tate A

7 OF Taveras R

8 1B Guzman AA

11 SP Jurado AA

15 SP Sadzeck AA

17 SS Morgan A+

19 SS De Leon A+

23 SS Yrizarri A

24 SP Payano A

 

A few days ago, I would have been right there with you in terms of my expectations on a return for Luc/Jeffress. However, after seeing the deal that was supposed to go down with Cleveland for Lucroy, I don't think there is any way we get this type of return for both guys. If I had to guess right now, I would say that a Luc/JJ package would probably net us: Gallo, Guzman, Jurado and Morgan. I would love to swap Mendez into this deal in place of Jurado or Morgan, but I doubt that would happen.

 

The fact that we were originally going to get a borderline Top 100 player in Mejia, and then two "OK" prospects from the Indians really tells me that the market just isn't where we all hoped it would be for Luc. So, if we were just trading him by himself to Texas, I'm guessing we'd probably get a package of Mendez, Guzman and Morgan. Throw in JJ, and that probably motivates Texas to up their offer to Gallo (even though I'd probably prefer Mendez) and then they add in someone like Jurado.

 

Just my opinion based off of what we now know is Luc's value on the market.

JJ is worth Mendez, Jurado and Payano

Luc is then Gallo, Guzmann and Morgan

 

Listen, I absolutely agree with you in that I too think that we should get this type of return for a Luc/JJ package. Hell, a few days ago I probably would have been predicting a Brinson, Mendez, Tavarez, Jurado, Guzman, Payano type haul for these two guy. But, that Indians trade really has me lowering my expectations now in terms of what I think we'd get back - even taking into consideration that we'd be adding JJ into the deal. I hope I'm wrong and you are right, but I unfortunately have my doubts right now.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm not a Moderator, so not really my place, but I'll throw this out there anyhow.

 

First, can we please stick to posting about Lucroy trade today? It will heat up, and none of us want to search through dozens of posts about why Stearns is rebuilding. I get it, it got slow last night and the conversation wondered. But there is a topic dedicated to Stearns rebuilding in the Major League Forum.

 

Secondly, free advice to some of the newer posters. Everyone is welcome here, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I suggest you pay attention to your tone, as it's offensive to some long term posters here who know far more about this stuff than we do. Sometimes it's better to sit back, read, take it all in, and learn.

 

Now, back to the regularly scheduled program.

[MillerParkSouth]

well said. I was all excited when I woke up this morning and saw a bunch of new posts only to find...whatever that was.

 

I was really hoping Luc would be traded last night, this is really going to hamper my productivity at work today.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm still leery that Gallo is ever going to make enough contact to be any better than a Chris Carter type, so his name doesn't excite me. Brewers also appear to have found their 3B right on their own roster so Gallo would have to play OF or 1B.

 

I keep hoping that Mets will relent and substitute Dominic Smith for Nimmo in their offer. I'm on that one in a heartbeat.

[adambr2]

I'm still leery that Gallo is ever going to make enough contact to be any better than a Chris Carter type, so his name doesn't excite me. Brewers also appear to have found their 3B right on their own roster so Gallo would have to play OF or 1B.

 

I like Perez as a super utility player, but not as the 3B of the future. I don't know if Gallo sticks at 3rd if he comes here, but I don't think Perez blocks anyone.

[Mr Southpaw]

I'm still leery that Gallo is ever going to make enough contact to be any better than a Chris Carter type, so his name doesn't excite me. Brewers also appear to have found their 3B right on their own roster so Gallo would have to play OF or 1B.

 

I keep hoping that Mets will relent and substitute Dominic Smith for Nimmo in their offer. I'm on that one in a heartbeat.

I am ok without Gallo if they give us the top five I have above plus two more.