The Brand New Lucroy Trade Thread

[CrewCut]

They are 12th in the NL in runs, 9th in OPS, and have the 5th worst run differential. 8th in ERA, 12th in BAA. They are nowhere close to a contending team. And you are saying "all they need is a #1/#2 pitcher" like that's easy to acquire.

 

Stearns has the right blueprint in place, and it's going to take multiple years. Now, whether the right players are/were acquired is something we will find out, but he's doing it the right way.

[schmidtac20]

Wow some people just don't get it. The Brewers are at LEAST two starters away from seriously competing. The only way they can get those is through internal development. By the time that internal development actually comes, Lucroy Braun Will be done, those dominant pen arms will be free agents, etc. They are headed in the right direction with the rebuild while the Cardinals and Pirates cores are getting older and older. If they get a haul for Lucroy/ pen they'll be competitive in 2 years.

[paul253]

What sucks is that as a Brewers fan I can never really go all in with them because I know that it's not a level playing field and they are at such a disadvantage

 

The Brewers need to start drafting better too. When your first round picks are Arnett, Jungmann, Bradley, Coulter, Roache and Medeiros you've got issues. I still have hope for Medeiros, along with Clark and Ray but we can't have so many first round busts. And the saddest thing is that most of them aren't injury related. The players just aren't good enough.

[Oxy]

Wow some people just don't get it. The Brewers are at LEAST two starters away from seriously competing. The only way they can get those is through internal development. By the time that internal development actually comes, Lucroy Braun Will be done, those dominant pen arms will be free agents, etc. They are headed in the right direction with the rebuild while the Cardinals and Pirates cores are getting older and older. If they get a haul for Lucroy/ pen they'll be competitive in 2 years.

 

Honestly now, who is the most valuable player on the trade market--Jean Segura, Jonathan Villar, or Orlando Arcia?

[Oxy]

What sucks is that as a Brewers fan I can never really go all in with them because I know that it's not a level playing field and they are at such a disadvantage

 

The Brewers need to start drafting better too. When your first round picks are Arnett, Jungmann, Bradley, Coulter, Roache and Medeiros you've got issues. I still have hope for Medeiros, along with Clark and Ray but we can't have so many first round busts. And the saddest thing is that most of them aren't injury related. The players just aren't good enough.

 

Yep. Gatewood and Harrison are in there too. Those two and Madeiros still have a couple years, but that's what we said about Roache and Coulter and Taylor two years ago. Since then, we've acquired something like 18 OFers who immediately jumped above them in the MLB pipeline and weren't that much older.

 

Still, I have hope. It only takes one or two of those guys to turn it around and be decent to change a lot of the current perception of bad drafting.

[schmidtac20]

Wow some people just don't get it. The Brewers are at LEAST two starters away from seriously competing. The only way they can get those is through internal development. By the time that internal development actually comes, Lucroy Braun Will be done, those dominant pen arms will be free agents, etc. They are headed in the right direction with the rebuild while the Cardinals and Pirates cores are getting older and older. If they get a haul for Lucroy/ pen they'll be competitive in 2 years.

 

Honestly now, who is the most valuable player on the trade market--Jean Segura, Jonathan Villar, or Orlando Arcia?

 

Villar. Your point?

[MrTPlush]

Wow some people just don't get it. The Brewers are at LEAST two starters away from seriously competing. The only way they can get those is through internal development. By the time that internal development actually comes, Lucroy Braun Will be done, those dominant pen arms will be free agents, etc. They are headed in the right direction with the rebuild while the Cardinals and Pirates cores are getting older and older. If they get a haul for Lucroy/ pen they'll be competitive in 2 years.

 

Honestly now, who is the most valuable player on the trade market--Jean Segura, Jonathan Villar, or Orlando Arcia?

 

Villar. Your point?

 

So you are telling me if we trade Villar he is getting a Top 20 prospect or a package that is equivalent? I am always open minded...but I think Arcia has the most value.

[jerichoholicninja]

Wow some people just don't get it. The Brewers are at LEAST two starters away from seriously competing. The only way they can get those is through internal development. By the time that internal development actually comes, Lucroy Braun Will be done, those dominant pen arms will be free agents, etc. They are headed in the right direction with the rebuild while the Cardinals and Pirates cores are getting older and older. If they get a haul for Lucroy/ pen they'll be competitive in 2 years.

 

Honestly now, who is the most valuable player on the trade market--Jean Segura, Jonathan Villar, or Orlando Arcia?

 

Totally depends what team you're dealing with. Arcia would be most valuable to San Diego or Atlanta, Villar to the Mets or Indians, and Segura to no one because he's Jean Segura.

[schmidtac20]

You may be right.. Open market Arcia would haul back more.

[Oxy]

Wow some people just don't get it. The Brewers are at LEAST two starters away from seriously competing. The only way they can get those is through internal development. By the time that internal development actually comes, Lucroy Braun Will be done, those dominant pen arms will be free agents, etc. They are headed in the right direction with the rebuild while the Cardinals and Pirates cores are getting older and older. If they get a haul for Lucroy/ pen they'll be competitive in 2 years.

 

Honestly now, who is the most valuable player on the trade market--Jean Segura, Jonathan Villar, or Orlando Arcia?

 

Villar. Your point?

 

My point is that it doesnt necessarily have to be a long drawn out process of acquiring as many 19 year old talents as possible. It only takes a 1 or 2 guys to really turn it around quickly, and those guys might be 23 or 24 or 25, and maybe even a 29 year old FA signing (gasp).

[schmidtac20]

My point is that it doesnt necessarily have to be a long drawn out process of acquiring as many 19 year old talents as possible. It only takes a 1 or 2 guys to really turn it around quickly, and those guys might be 23 or 24 or 25, and maybe even a 29 year old FA signing (gasp).

 

And my point was I don't expect this to be a long drawn out process. Get a haul tonight for a player who won't be here when the window of opportunity begins. Those 29 year old free agents have worked so well. (Garza) *gasp again*

[MrTPlush]

Rangers are still talking about Chris Sale which may be delaying a possible Lucroy deal. I doubt a Sale deal happens so hopefully it will finally just die. May also be the reason the Mets think they could still get Lucroy. If Rangers get Sale no a whole lot of teams still looking at Lucroy.

[Ennder]

Acquiring young talent though means probably at MINIMUM 2-3 years before they are in the bigs, and that means probably another 2-3 from them to all gell together, which means we are looking at 5-6 years minimum before the Brewers are winning again..that's simply too long. I loathe losing..as a baseball coach of an amateur team myself..you can only take so much of it.

 

We all want the same thing, first and foremost a contending major league club, as well as a solid farm system to create consistency in the years to follow.

 

Fact is, the Brewers club from top to bottom was in shambles because since 2012 they focused on the MLB team while the farm system fell apart. not trading guys at peak value for the sake of "going for it" with a mediocre team, free agent contracts to aging pitchers, poor drafting and developing, etc. That is why we are in this mess to begin with.

 

If the Brewers could put a legit contender on the field next year, of course they would. But realistically it is going to take 2-3 years to assemble enough talent to put together an MLB contender. This MLB club is not 1 or 2 players away from contending, and the we do not have the resources - financially or in prospects - for the number and quality of guys that would get us there without mortgaging the future in spectacular fashion.

 

We all want to win now or next year, but most realize that is simply unrealistic and prefer a higher chance at competing - and doing so consistently - in a few years above a short-sighted win-now approach that would likely lead to more mediocre non-playoff teams and a wasteland of a farm system with a bleak future.

 

 

This is kind of a joke, right? Two short years ago, the Brewers led the division the entire year until a late collapse. Last year, Lohse and Garza were inexplicably horrible and Lucroy got hurt. This year, we are supposed to be terrible, yet keep finding ways to sweep teams like the Pirates despite pitching Chase Anderson and the aforementioned Garza for the weekend and sitting the only two established sticks on the roster (who we would love to trade).

 

I thought Melvin was a great GM, as the last 10 years were light years more fun than the previous 15 years. That was not a "tiny window where we hope to get lucky"--that was 10 years of meaningful games in August and September.

 

How many meaningful August and September games are being played by the Rays and Athletics and Twins this year?

 

 

Admittedly--I am being a bit of a contrarian, but this site seems a little bit out if balance.

 

 

no you are completely correct. Those saying a rebuild was in order in 2012 are relying on hindsight being 20/20. We didn't know Braun would be suspended, we didn't know that a ton of key players would underperform or get hurt. There was no reason to consider the 2012 or 2013 team to be teams that couldn't make the playoffs, the 2014 team was a wait and see type of team and they got off to a great start so it made little sense to rebuild, The 2015 team is debateable at least but we went into it trading one of our best pitchers so it felt like it was already a rebuild season.

[Oxy]

Say we traded Madeiros, Clark, Harrison, Gatewood, Phillips, Woodruff and Lopez for Archer and Teheran.

 

A. Is that a reasonable trade?

 

B. Would any of you be disappointed?

 

For good measure, throw in Roache, Coulter, and Taylor. That's 10 of our somewhat prized prospects. If I am Stearns, I would do this deal in a heartbeat, and yet I I actually think this SHOULD be very doable according to the way prospects seems to be valued. Perhaps I'm wrong.

[logan82]

We should have expected to compete in 2012 but once it turned on us we should have started the rebuild. The Loshe signing was a mistake and that isn't hindsight. Ramirez was in his mid 30's then and he should have been traded. Our hopes of being good depended on aging players.

[schmidtac20]

We should have expected to compete in 2012 but once it turned on us we should have started the rebuild. The Loshe signing was a mistake and that isn't hindsight. Ramirez was in his mid 30's then and he should have been traded. Our hopes of being good depended on aging players.

 

 

I actually think the Lohse signing was one of the better ones they've done. I do agree they should have fully started rebuild after collapse year though, especially after they traded Greinke.

[logan82]

Loshe would have been a good signing if we didn't have to give up the pick. It bothered me way more than the Garza signing. I wish we had flipped both early on for something before they flamed out. I find myself wishing that about many of the FA signings they made.

[MrTPlush]

Everyone says we should have started the rebuild sooner, but without that epic collapse in 2014 we would have won the division claiming Melvin as a hero. Lohse/Garza/Ramirez would have all been brilliant signings.

 

That close to being different....ahhhh baseball.

[schmidtac20]

Do the Brewers make the playoffs in 2012 if Greinke wasn't traded?

[MrTPlush]

Loshe would have been a good signing if we didn't have to give up the pick. It bothered me way more than the Garza signing. I wish we had flipped both early on for something before they flamed out. I find myself wishing that about many of the FA signings they made.

 

Agreed. That pick would have ended up a huge success just like all our other amazing mid to late first round picks of recent years.

[rickh150]

Say we traded Madeiros, Clark, Harrison, Gatewood, Phillips, Woodruff and Lopez for Archer and Teheran.

 

A. Is that a reasonable trade?

 

B. Would any of you be disappointed?

 

For good measure, throw in Roache, Coulter, and Taylor. That's 10 of our somewhat prized prospects. If I am Stearns, I would do this deal in a heartbeat, and yet I I actually think this SHOULD be very doable according to the way prospects seems to be valued. Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

A. Reasonable?....probably not. Most would see 80% of these guys as fringe MLB players, at best. Archer and Teheran are somewhat proven MLB starters. It would depend how long is left on each of their contracts (which I didn't look up) Yet, I hear ya. Prospects are waaaaay overvalued now.

B. No, because SP is the big key for all teams, especially small markets. It's how the A's excelled with Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, etc. For as much press thatKC's pen got the last two years, the SP held strong down the stretch each year. Again, it would depend on contracts, for me, and how much time would be left on each.

[schmidtac20]

1. Do the Brewers make playoffs in 2012 if Greinke not traded. (5 GB).

2. Do the Brewers make the playoffs in 2014 if garza doesn't get screwed on call vs cardinals ( he had one hitter I believe through 6 Brewers were 5 games up at time and a bad call swept momentum to 4 games). It was August 3rd.

[Oxy]

Loshe would have been a good signing if we didn't have to give up the pick. It bothered me way more than the Garza signing. I wish we had flipped both early on for something before they flamed out. I find myself wishing that about many of the FA signings they made.

 

If only we could have traded Gamel and Parra and Peralta at the equivalent times we traded LaPorta (and to a lesser extent Lawrie, Escobar and Odorizzi)

 

 

(....okay, this post pushed it a little too far, considering the careers of guys like Cruz, Lucroy, Brantley, and Cain)

 

 

The point is that prospects are AT LEAST as risky as FA signings (at least if you have the pocketbook and capspace). And I'd say that high draft pick toolsy guys are the most over-rated prospects of all, and thus we should trade them if they don't work out somewhat quickly in their first few minor league years.

[rickh150]

Do the Brewers make the playoffs in 2012 if Greinke wasn't traded?

 

Still, no.

The guys that came up to fill in the rotation were lights out for the second half.

The truly sad part of that team was Krod and Axford, guys who excelled the prior year. We make the playoffs easily if we could save a game that year.

[rickh150]

1. Do the Brewers make playoffs in 2012 if Greinke not traded. (5 GB).

2. Do the Brewers make the playoffs in 2014 if garza doesn't get screwed on call vs cardinals ( he had one hitter I believe through 6 Brewers were 5 games up at time and a bad call swept momentum to 4 games). It was August 3rd.

 

 

2. Nope.