The Brand New Lucroy Trade Thread

[Brewcrewin07]

Acquiring young talent though means probably at MINIMUM 2-3 years before they are in the bigs, and that means probably another 2-3 from them to all gell together, which means we are looking at 5-6 years minimum before the Brewers are winning again..that's simply too long. I loathe losing..as a baseball coach of an amateur team myself..you can only take so much of it.

[DuWayne Steurer]

We need to construct a 90+ win team. Once we do that we will compete with the Cubs. Too many of you want to calculate it out when we can just easily win the division with 85 wins. Winning the division isn't easy and never will be. Time to acquire talent and start putting a real team on the field. Stop waiting for a Cubs team to regress.

 

 

Agree with this. Obviously things will be tough being in the same division with the Cubs and Cardinals, but you can't just sit on your chips and wait for those teams to be bad. What if that never happens?

 

If "the best" you can hope for in a given timeframe is to play for the wildcard, then if you have 90 win talent, you get a wild card spot.

 

I'd hate to think that if the Brewers had a talented young group (such as Braun, Weeks, Fielder, Hart, Hardy) coming up, that they'd for some reason choose to "sit it out" for a cycle just because they're in a tough division.

[dacrew101]

I think we just need patience, otherwise we may be stuck on no mans land

[Thurston Fluff]

We need to construct a 90+ win team. Once we do that we will compete with the Cubs. Too many of you want to calculate it out when we can just easily win the division with 85 wins. Winning the division isn't easy and never will be. Time to acquire talent and start putting a real team on the field. Stop waiting for a Cubs team to regress.

 

So true. I really don't give a rat's behind how good the Cubs are because there is always a Cubs type team out there. Just be good enough to get in and see what happens.

[sfl2hnq17]

Then cheer for another team brewcrewin07. The FO and ownership is going down this road.

[Ennder]

I don't specifically want a C. I just think Mejia is a good defensive C who also may be a very good hitter and those are rare. Gallo has one skill and everything else is a flaw, players like that flame out way too much for my tastes.

[superfly]

Acquiring young talent though means probably at MINIMUM 2-3 years before they are in the bigs, and that means probably another 2-3 from them to all gell together, which means we are looking at 5-6 years minimum before the Brewers are winning again..that's simply too long. I loathe losing..as a baseball coach of an amateur team myself..you can only take so much of it.

 

Sounds like what the Twins just did. About 5 years of losing, and then sold their fans for years on "you just wait for 2016-2017 when these top prospects are going to come up and take us to the promised land." How'd that work out for them? I understand eying the A/AA talent and the premise behind it, but this isn't a vaccum and we really should focus on the player, not where they're at. If Gallo (as an example) pans out, we have a heck of a trade chip to pawn off in a year or two, or possibly a franchise player.

 

The glitter and allure of projectable talent is just too tempting for some. Sorry but I don't want to tolerate 5-6 years of losing either, and neither should anyone else. If the "plan" doesn't work we are ruined for at least a decade. I'm all for targeting upside in the lower parts of the minors, but don't want to rule out the upper minors either.

[narwhalattack]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/mlb-non-waiver-trade-deadline-jonathan-lucroy-chris-sale-jay-bruce-yankees-brewers-073116

 

Rosenthal seems pretty confident that Lucroy is going to the Rangers.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Acquiring young talent though means probably at MINIMUM 2-3 years before they are in the bigs, and that means probably another 2-3 from them to all gell together, which means we are looking at 5-6 years minimum before the Brewers are winning again..that's simply too long. I loathe losing..as a baseball coach of an amateur team myself..you can only take so much of it.

 

We all want the same thing, first and foremost a contending major league club, as well as a solid farm system to create consistency in the years to follow.

 

Fact is, the Brewers club from top to bottom was in shambles because since 2012 they focused on the MLB team while the farm system fell apart. not trading guys at peak value for the sake of "going for it" with a mediocre team, free agent contracts to aging pitchers, poor drafting and developing, etc. That is why we are in this mess to begin with.

 

If the Brewers could put a legit contender on the field next year, of course they would. But realistically it is going to take 2-3 years to assemble enough talent to put together an MLB contender. This MLB club is not 1 or 2 players away from contending, and the we do not have the resources - financially or in prospects - for the number and quality of guys that would get us there without mortgaging the future in spectacular fashion.

 

We all want to win now or next year, but most realize that is simply unrealistic and prefer a higher chance at competing - and doing so consistently - in a few years above a short-sighted win-now approach that would likely lead to more mediocre non-playoff teams and a wasteland of a farm system with a bleak future.

[3and2Fastball]

Acquiring young talent though means probably at MINIMUM 2-3 years before they are in the bigs, and that means probably another 2-3 from them to all gell together, which means we are looking at 5-6 years minimum before the Brewers are winning again..that's simply too long. I loathe losing..as a baseball coach of an amateur team myself..you can only take so much of it.

 

Sounds like what the Twins just did. About 5 years of losing, and then sold their fans for years on "you just wait for 2016-2017 when these top prospects are going to come up and take us to the promised land." How'd that work out for them?

 

Kind of like when the Brewers told fans "you just wait till Fielder/Weeks/Hardy etc are able to join Sheets, then we'll be contenders?"

[FVBrewerFan]

You may be right about Mejia. But a deal with TX will involve pitching, whether Gallo is a piece or not. And more pitching talent is always a good idea. But Mejia is a good example of how too much weight is put on top 100. He was not on preseason list, now #70. Probably top 50 by next preseason. Those are the risers you want.

 

Also, I've said early and often, positions don't matter yet on draft day, or trades. At this stage, acquire the best talent period. Worst case you build a really good MLB roster, then go out and buy a decent catcher. Lots of money will be available.

[sfl2hnq17]

Superfly, I think Stearns alleviated some of your concerns about going all 76ers and just dumping, dumping, dumping. He wants to have talent at all levels of our system. The problem with targeting just upper level guys is that there is usually a higher cost to getting them. I don't like losing either, but signing guys like Lohse, Garza and Suppan to 3/4yr-50/60 million dollar contracts because we didn't have the prospects cripples us as well. Stearns has had a little bit of bad luck in that Peralta and Jungmann cratered completely. Those two pitch better this year and this could be a .500 team even in a rebuilding year.

[3and2Fastball]

As long as this Lucroy Trade Thread diverges into a Stearns Philosophy Thread for a bit, I will say that while I like his M.O. of stockpiling athletic, fast, multi-position players who get on base, I would hope that we'll be stockpiling pitching at some point. Pitching wins championships. You can never, ever, have too much pitching, which means I'd be thrilled if over the next 2-3 years or so most of our trade acquisitions and draft picks are pitchers. I have a feeling that phase is coming

[FidoMcCokefiend]

Confused as to why I got quoted in there. You meant to quote brewcrewin07. I was arguing with him about the very things you are saying.

Deleted wrong quote and updated. Apologize for the confusion.

[jerichoholicninja]

Can we start give out some time outs? A lot of real pieces of work making noise around here the last 24 hours.

[sfl2hnq17]

Haha, it's been a long day Fido. I had to go back and make sure I didn't say it.

[GoToHelfaer]

I think how good the Cubs are, or are going to be, is irrelevant to how the Brewers should do business. I'm seeing 5-6 year projections of the Brewers being dormant and that's an extremely shortsighted view. The problem with the Brewers two playoff runs was that to acquire Sabathia and Greinke we sold off the farm without the ability to restock. If Stearns shows the ability to stock our system now through trades and draft well, we'll have the balance of prospects to bring to the Major League roster AND to use to acquire MLB ready talent when the time comes.

 

Let the man lay his foundation before we assume that we're headed for another decade of futility.

[BuckyBrewer61]

The problem with the Brewers two playoff runs was that to acquire Sabathia and Greinke we sold off the farm without the ability to restock.

 

I agree with your post, though would argue that the problem with the Brewers farm system was as much if not moreso the Brewers' inability to recognize a team that couldn't realistically contend after 2011 and after Greinke was traded, instead reaching on free agents and not trading other pieces at peak value. The first step now is to rebuild, but I also hope once rebuilt there is a new franchise philosophy to sell pieces when their value is highest if the team is not a legit contender. We will never compete year-in and year-out, but with a good strategy hopefully we will have a year or two here and there to reload rather than the debacle of needing years of a rebuild that we put ourselves in this time.

[sfl2hnq17]

The only addendum I would add BuckyBrewer61 is our complete inability to develop starting pitching prospects.

[MenchHead]

Honestly, who cares about the timeline? We're Brewers fans. Not like we can't stand some losing. And for real? Are we basing our franchise decisions on other franchises because we are intimidated because, "We can't compete until..." That's giving up. And that's why DS hasn't put a timeline on it.

 

That being said, I feel Stearns doesn't care what level (other than MLB) a player is currently. I also feel he doesn't care which position they play. "Identify young, controllable talent." The only cog is that the higher they are in the minors, the more they cost. I trust his scouts and FO analytics more than anything I can read on the internet.

 

Keep that cycle rotating. Young and controllable talent. Take care of the future and the future will take care of the present.

[MKE81]

I'll take Gallo in a second from TX. He's 22 and 4yrs younger than his completion. His production increased greatly at AAA between last year and this. Just like it did at AA between 20 and 21yrs old. He'll only continue to grow. Like Brinson too. Need to load up on other high ceiling guys as well including several SPs. If Ortiz or Mendez are involved that's great. If both are involved that's incredible and 3 current Top 100 players. Best part is Lucroy can't block it

[Oxy]

Acquiring young talent though means probably at MINIMUM 2-3 years before they are in the bigs, and that means probably another 2-3 from them to all gell together, which means we are looking at 5-6 years minimum before the Brewers are winning again..that's simply too long. I loathe losing..as a baseball coach of an amateur team myself..you can only take so much of it.

 

We all want the same thing, first and foremost a contending major league club, as well as a solid farm system to create consistency in the years to follow.

 

Fact is, the Brewers club from top to bottom was in shambles because since 2012 they focused on the MLB team while the farm system fell apart. not trading guys at peak value for the sake of "going for it" with a mediocre team, free agent contracts to aging pitchers, poor drafting and developing, etc. That is why we are in this mess to begin with.

 

If the Brewers could put a legit contender on the field next year, of course they would. But realistically it is going to take 2-3 years to assemble enough talent to put together an MLB contender. This MLB club is not 1 or 2 players away from contending, and the we do not have the resources - financially or in prospects - for the number and quality of guys that would get us there without mortgaging the future in spectacular fashion.

 

We all want to win now or next year, but most realize that is simply unrealistic and prefer a higher chance at competing - and doing so consistently - in a few years above a short-sighted win-now approach that would likely lead to more mediocre non-playoff teams and a wasteland of a farm system with a bleak future.

 

 

This is kind of a joke, right? Two short years ago, the Brewers led the division the entire year until a late collapse. Last year, Lohse and Garza were inexplicably horrible and Lucroy got hurt. This year, we are supposed to be terrible, yet keep finding ways to sweep teams like the Pirates despite pitching Chase Anderson and the aforementioned Garza for the weekend and sitting the only two established sticks on the roster (who we would love to trade).

 

I thought Melvin was a great GM, as the last 10 years were light years more fun than the previous 15 years. That was not a "tiny window where we hope to get lucky"--that was 10 years of meaningful games in August and September.

 

How many meaningful August and September games are being played by the Rays and Athletics and Twins this year?

 

 

Admittedly--I am being a bit of a contrarian, but this site seems a little bit out if balance.

[Oxy]

If this team was laden with gigantic albatross contracts of unproductive veterans I could understand the mentality, but Braun and Lucroy are far from that, and Garza is soon off the books. Our bullpen is young and outstanding. We basically need a #1 and #2 pitcher to be very competitive. That's 2 players.

 

I'm all for trading high and buying low. But that's it. I'm also for winning. Tomorrow. And the next day. And the next day. You never know what might happen.

[Sixto]

The sad thing and the reality is the Brewers don't have a choice but to rebuild this way. What sucks is that as a Brewers fan I can never really go all in with them because I know that it's not a level playing field and they are at such a disadvantage. Not being able to take advantage of all avenues of acquiring talent makes the row so much harder to hoe. IMO the chances of re-creating Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hardy is minute. That was a perfect storm that I'm not sure how often can happen and we still came up short.

[Oxy]

The sad thing and the reality is the Brewers don't have a choice but to rebuild this way. What sucks is that as a Brewers fan I can never really go all in with them because I know that it's not a level playing field and they are at such a disadvantage. Not being able to take advantage of all avenues of acquiring talent makes the row so much harder to hoe. IMO the chances of re-creating Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hardy is minute. That was a perfect storm that I'm not sure how often can happen and we still came up short.

 

 

Really? What would it take to trade for Julio Teheren and Chris Archer? Seriously?