Andrew Miller to Indians

[sfl2hnq17]

Touche.

[danzig6767]

Which, the market just pisses me off. A top-3 reliever get you more than a top 3 catcher. Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

What's so hard to understand?

 

Look at nearly every trade that's been made so far and it's been for pitching. Go back to previous deadlines and pitching usually draws the most trades.

 

If Lucroy was a top tier pitcher instead of catcher, the Brewers would have had multiple teams offering very impressive packages instead of teams offering disappointing packages.

[sfl2hnq17]

Where did I say I didn't understand? I said it doesn't make any sense. It's relief pitching, not starting pitching. If it was starting pitching, all good, but I'm surprised all these prospects going for relief pitching.

[danzig6767]

He can't throw good strikes.

Neither did K-Rod.

KRod knows how to pitch though, even as his velocity decreased. In fact, he got better as his velocity decreased.

 

His K rate only decreased a little, but his WHIP the last three years have been

 

0.98

0.86

1.009

 

When KRod saved 62 games, his WHIP was 1.288

 

Peralta throws a lot harder, but has zero clue how to command his pitches and a pitcher without command is largely worthless.

[Oxy]

He can't throw good strikes.

Neither did K-Rod.

KRod knows how to pitch though, even as his velocity decreased. In fact, he got better as his velocity decreased.

 

His K rate only decreased a little, but his WHIP the last three years have been

 

0.98

0.86

1.009

 

When KRod saved 62 games, his WHIP was 1.288

 

Peralta throws a lot harder, but has zero clue how to command his pitches and a pitcher without command is largely worthless.

 

I agree. Then again, Turnblow and Axford couldn't even control their pitches let alone command them. And those guys were hella fun to watch for about 1 or 2 years.

[danzig6767]

Where did I say I didn't understand? I said it doesn't make any sense. It's relief pitching, not starting pitching. If it was starting pitching, all good, but I'm surprised all these prospects going for relief pitching.

Have you not been watching the playoffs the last 5-6-7 years?

 

Teams with a great bullpen have been advancing far in the playoffs even if their starting pitching is nothing special.

 

The 2011 Cardinals won a title with an often struggling rotation in the playoffs, but their bullpen and offense were fabulous.

 

The 2013 Red Sox had a very mediocre rotation besides Lester, but their bullpen was great and so was the offense.

 

The Royals made the World Series in back to back years with a nothing special rotation, but their bullpen was dominant and they had timely hitting.

 

In the past teams often needed multiple upper tier starters to reach the World Series and win a ring. Not any more if a team had a great bullpen. With days off in the playoffs, managers can be quick to pull a struggling starter and unless a true ace is on the mound, an offense is usually better off if a starter is in the game after say the 5th-6th inning given teams with a great bullpen will have 3-4 guys waiting in the pen with a sub-3 ERA, great WHIP and K/BB ratios.

 

It's simply a different game today in the playoffs with how many teams are stacking their bullpens full of guys with better stats than a good percentage of starting pitchers. Except when an ace is on the mound, a manager just needs his starter to give him about 5-6 decent innings so the bullpen can be unleashed.

[sfl2hnq17]

I understand that and yes I may have seen a game or two, hence my presence on this forum, teams have not been trading packages of prospects like this in the past 7 seasons. Not to mention Lucroy makes half of what Miller does and best case, Miller pitches 30-40 innings the rest of the year for them.

[MadThinker88]

I understand that and yes I may have seen a game or two, hence my presence on this forum, teams have not been trading packages of prospects like this in the past 7 seasons. Not to mention Lucroy makes half of what Miller does and best case, Miller pitches 30-40 innings the rest of the year for them.

 

 

Please note: Miller has more control remaining on his contract and a record of success in the post season.

 

One other benefit of Miller is his moving into a dual closer role with Cody Allen. It should help to keep Allen's cost controlled as he continues thru the arbitration years..

 

The Tribe could also trade Miller off at a solid return next year (or the year after) if deemed necessary..

[sfl2hnq17]

You are very correct about the team control.

[danzig6767]

I understand that and yes I may have seen a game or two, hence my presence on this forum, teams have not been trading packages of prospects like this in the past 7 seasons. Not to mention Lucroy makes half of what Miller does and best case, Miller pitches 30-40 innings the rest of the year for them.

Do you think Theo Epstein is an idiot? He's arguably the best GM in the game, yet he traded a top 25ish prospect for a rental in Chapman. That trade was almost entirely about the playoffs, not regular season innings.

 

It's not just about the innings a great reliever will pitch, it's also about changing the pecking order of the bullpen. Whether it's Cleveland or the Cubs, adding another elite relief pitcher increases the number of shutdown bullpen guys. So now Maddon in a close playoff game can turn to one of his better relief pitchers sooner to maybe squelch trouble. It's about shortening the game when a team has say only a 1-2 run lead in the 6th inning with a non-ace starter on the mound.

 

Teams realize that high end starting pitchers simply are hard to develop and are nearly impossible to trade for. They cost a ton when a free agent. But if they can put together a great overall bullpen, it can cover for weaknesses in a rotation, especially in the playoffs. So the value/importance of bullpens has been going up each year. As a result, elite relievers get paid more and cost more in trades.

 

It's not as if there are a bunch of quality starters out there to trade for. Pretty much the only avenue available for contenders to improve their pitching staffs is in the bullpen. I see this becoming a new norm at trade deadlines as quality starters rarely being available.

[sfl2hnq17]

Never said he was an idiot and I know how acquiring a new closer affects a bullpen. I just think it is too much to give up. There is a reason I didn't bring up the Cubs specifically in my post because right now they are so young and so good their position prospects exponentially less value to them in their system than as trade pieces. They don't have to worry about this because they already have the offense to get a lead. There is a case that the Indians don't.