Andrew Miller to Indians

[adambr2]

I am going to be disappointed if we don't find a way to trade at least 1 or 2 relievers by tomorrow.

[logan82]

So here is the big problem I have now with this, and David Stearns:

 

Im upset that, if rumors are true, that when dealing with the Indians on Jonathan Lucroy, he "insisted" on one of the three of Frazier (ranked 21st), Zimmer (ranked 27th) and Mejia (ranked 70th by Baseball America). Of course the Indians are going to "settle" on their lower ranked prospect. I undertand that he is not advanced as the other two and may have more upside, but both Zimmer and Frazier have tons of upside as well, play premium OF positions, have speed, and power potential....they are 5 tool prospects, and Mejia isnt. He should have insisted on Frazier or Zimmer and then asked for Mejia as an additional piece.

 

And then secondly, he should have known that the Indians were looking for a relief pitcher. Given what they are going to give up for Andrew Miller, who has 2.5 years left at $9 million a year, the Brewers should have at least expected at least Sheffield for 2.5 years of Will Smith.

 

I have a feeling that Lucroy is going to turn down the deal and ask for something crazy on the financial side that will nix the whole deal, but Stearns does not look good in this play of events in my opinion. And if this happens, then he has to go shopping for the next best deal. And if this was what the best was for Lucroy, then the "next best" is even worse, and he has to go back to them with his tail between his legs.

I would rather have the catcher over another OF. I would rather have a pitcher over a catcher.

[Noche]

So here is the big problem I have now with this, and David Stearns:

 

Im upset that, if rumors are true, that when dealing with the Indians on Jonathan Lucroy, he "insisted" on one of the three of Frazier (ranked 21st), Zimmer (ranked 27th) and Mejia (ranked 70th by Baseball America). Of course the Indians are going to "settle" on their lower ranked prospect. I undertand that he is not advanced as the other two and may have more upside, but both Zimmer and Frazier have tons of upside as well, play premium OF positions, have speed, and power potential....they are 5 tool prospects, and Mejia isnt. He should have insisted on Frazier or Zimmer and then asked for Mejia as an additional piece.

 

And then secondly, he should have known that the Indians were looking for a relief pitcher. Given what they are going to give up for Andrew Miller, who has 2.5 years left at $9 million a year, the Brewers should have at least expected at least Sheffield for 2.5 years of Will Smith.

 

I have a feeling that Lucroy is going to turn down the deal and ask for something crazy on the financial side that will nix the whole deal, but Stearns does not look good in this play of events in my opinion. And if this happens, then he has to go shopping for the next best deal. And if this was what the best was for Lucroy, then the "next best" is even worse, and he has to go back to them with his tail between his legs.

 

I am quite certain GM's don't care about Baseball America lists. Meija easily has the highest ceiling of those three.

[splitterpfj]

So here is the big problem I have now with this, and David Stearns:

 

Im upset that, if rumors are true, that when dealing with the Indians on Jonathan Lucroy, he "insisted" on one of the three of Frazier (ranked 21st), Zimmer (ranked 27th) and Mejia (ranked 70th by Baseball America). Of course the Indians are going to "settle" on their lower ranked prospect. I undertand that he is not advanced as the other two and may have more upside, but both Zimmer and Frazier have tons of upside as well, play premium OF positions, have speed, and power potential....they are 5 tool prospects, and Mejia isnt. He should have insisted on Frazier or Zimmer and then asked for Mejia as an additional piece.

 

And then secondly, he should have known that the Indians were looking for a relief pitcher. Given what they are going to give up for Andrew Miller, who has 2.5 years left at $9 million a year, the Brewers should have at least expected at least Sheffield for 2.5 years of Will Smith.

 

I have a feeling that Lucroy is going to turn down the deal and ask for something crazy on the financial side that will nix the whole deal, but Stearns does not look good in this play of events in my opinion. And if this happens, then he has to go shopping for the next best deal. And if this was what the best was for Lucroy, then the "next best" is even worse, and he has to go back to them with his tail between his legs.

 

Do you really think David Stearns didn't know Cleveland was looking for a relief pitcher? Really? It's been all over TV and the web for weeks.

 

Do you remember the noise about D'Arnaud and Nimmo? As good as he is, the demand for Lucroy's position and skills just never got as high as the demand for an elite reliever. That's what happened here, and at that, I have no problem at all with what the Brewers got.

 

Corey Ray, with no success in pro ball yet, is ranked very highly, strictly because he was a high first round pick .... Mejia is on a 42-game hitting streak, and may have the strongest arm of any catcher in the minor leagues right now ... the Brewers got him, plus three.

 

There is no problem here.

[UMBrewer]

So here is the big problem I have now with this, and David Stearns:

 

Im upset that, if rumors are true, that when dealing with the Indians on Jonathan Lucroy, he "insisted" on one of the three of Frazier (ranked 21st), Zimmer (ranked 27th) and Mejia (ranked 70th by Baseball America). Of course the Indians are going to "settle" on their lower ranked prospect. I undertand that he is not advanced as the other two and may have more upside, but both Zimmer and Frazier have tons of upside as well, play premium OF positions, have speed, and power potential....they are 5 tool prospects, and Mejia isnt. He should have insisted on Frazier or Zimmer and then asked for Mejia as an additional piece.

 

And then secondly, he should have known that the Indians were looking for a relief pitcher. Given what they are going to give up for Andrew Miller, who has 2.5 years left at $9 million a year, the Brewers should have at least expected at least Sheffield for 2.5 years of Will Smith.

 

I have a feeling that Lucroy is going to turn down the deal and ask for something crazy on the financial side that will nix the whole deal, but Stearns does not look good in this play of events in my opinion. And if this happens, then he has to go shopping for the next best deal. And if this was what the best was for Lucroy, then the "next best" is even worse, and he has to go back to them with his tail between his legs.

 

I am quite certain GM's don't care about Baseball America lists. Meija easily has the highest ceiling of those three.

 

 

Can you explain how you see that?

 

Because in my mind a 5 tool CF is more valuable than a 3 tool catcher who possibly has attitude problems.

[dlk9s]

Im upset that, if rumors are true, that when dealing with the Indians on Jonathan Lucroy, he "insisted" on one of the three of Frazier (ranked 21st), Zimmer (ranked 27th) and Mejia (ranked 70th by Baseball America). Of course the Indians are going to "settle" on their lower ranked prospect. I undertand that he is not advanced as the other two and may have more upside, but both Zimmer and Frazier have tons of upside as well, play premium OF positions, have speed, and power potential....they are 5 tool prospects, and Mejia isnt. He should have insisted on Frazier or Zimmer and then asked for Mejia as an additional piece.

 

If Mejia keeps progressing well (not that I'm expecting him to just destroy every level of minor league ball like he's been doing), he has an excellent chance to be more valuable than either Zimmer or Frazier. You mention that they play premium OF positions, but seem to ignore the fact that Mejia plays a premium infield position. One of the things that made Lucroy so valuable was that he played catcher. Now the Brewers have a guy that could be his replacement in a few years PLUS got two other players with very nice potential.

[UMBrewer]

Im upset that, if rumors are true, that when dealing with the Indians on Jonathan Lucroy, he "insisted" on one of the three of Frazier (ranked 21st), Zimmer (ranked 27th) and Mejia (ranked 70th by Baseball America). Of course the Indians are going to "settle" on their lower ranked prospect. I undertand that he is not advanced as the other two and may have more upside, but both Zimmer and Frazier have tons of upside as well, play premium OF positions, have speed, and power potential....they are 5 tool prospects, and Mejia isnt. He should have insisted on Frazier or Zimmer and then asked for Mejia as an additional piece.

 

If Mejia keeps progressing well (not that I'm expecting him to just destroy every level of minor league ball like he's been doing), he has an excellent chance to be more valuable than either Zimmer or Frazier. You mention that they play premium OF positions, but seem to ignore the fact that Mejia plays a premium infield position. One of the things that made Lucroy so valuable was that he played catcher. Now the Brewers have a guy that could be his replacement in a few years PLUS got two other players with very nice potential.

 

the point I am trying to make is that it sounds like they could have landed one of the OF AND Mejia. Dont get me wrong, I like Mejia, and expected him to be a part of the deal. But if had "insisted" on one of Frazier or Zimmer and "landed" on Zimmer, then you add Mejia after. And even after all of that a Zimmer/Mejia deal doesnt get the Brewers fair value in return for his worth.

[Noche]

So here is the big problem I have now with this, and David Stearns:

 

Im upset that, if rumors are true, that when dealing with the Indians on Jonathan Lucroy, he "insisted" on one of the three of Frazier (ranked 21st), Zimmer (ranked 27th) and Mejia (ranked 70th by Baseball America). Of course the Indians are going to "settle" on their lower ranked prospect. I undertand that he is not advanced as the other two and may have more upside, but both Zimmer and Frazier have tons of upside as well, play premium OF positions, have speed, and power potential....they are 5 tool prospects, and Mejia isnt. He should have insisted on Frazier or Zimmer and then asked for Mejia as an additional piece.

 

And then secondly, he should have known that the Indians were looking for a relief pitcher. Given what they are going to give up for Andrew Miller, who has 2.5 years left at $9 million a year, the Brewers should have at least expected at least Sheffield for 2.5 years of Will Smith.

 

I have a feeling that Lucroy is going to turn down the deal and ask for something crazy on the financial side that will nix the whole deal, but Stearns does not look good in this play of events in my opinion. And if this happens, then he has to go shopping for the next best deal. And if this was what the best was for Lucroy, then the "next best" is even worse, and he has to go back to them with his tail between his legs.

 

I am quite certain GM's don't care about Baseball America lists. Meija easily has the highest ceiling of those three.

 

 

Can you explain how you see that?

 

Because in my mind a 5 tool CF is more valuable than a 3 tool catcher who possibly has attitude problems.

 

Zimmer and Meija are close but I give the edge to the C with a 70 arm and 60-65 hit tool. Zimmer may be average or slightly better in all 5 categories but not by much. I'll take the very loud tools.

 

Lucroy is kind of jerk by the way too in case you haven't noticed.

 

Frazier is the safe one.

[Mr Southpaw]

The most premium position in the field is the catcher other that the pitcher when he is throwing the ball.

[dlk9s]

the point I am trying to make is that it sounds like they could have landed one of the OF AND Mejia. Dont get me wrong, I like Mejia, and expected him to be a part of the deal. But if had "insisted" on one of Frazier or Zimmer and "landed" on Zimmer, then you add Mejia after. And even after all of that a Zimmer/Mejia deal doesnt get the Brewers fair value in return for his worth.

 

If Stearns could have gotten BOTH Mejia and one of Cleveland's top two prospects, I think he would have. I highly doubt he started the negotiations by undercutting what he thought he might be able to get.

 

EDIT: Plus, for all we know, Cleveland was working on the Miller trade at the same time and couldn't offer Zimmer/Frazier because they knew they were offering one of them to NY. Cleveland has given up a hell of a lot to get two players.

[splitterpfj]

the point I am trying to make is that it sounds like they could have landed one of the OF AND Mejia. Dont get me wrong, I like Mejia, and expected him to be a part of the deal. But if had "insisted" on one of Frazier or Zimmer and "landed" on Zimmer, then you add Mejia after. And even after all of that a Zimmer/Mejia deal doesnt get the Brewers fair value in return for his worth.

 

If Stearns could have gotten BOTH Mejia and one of Cleveland's top two prospects, I think he would have. I highly doubt he started the negotiations by undercutting what he thought he might be able to get.

 

I can't remember which reporter said it last night, but one of them said the Brewers insisted on Frazier or Mejia, and Cleveland agreed to up the secondary pieces from where they had been if it was Mejia, so the Brewers went that way.

 

I love Frazier, for sure, but don't be down over what the Brewers got. Keep something in mind for me - LaPorta was the "can't miss" the Indians got for Sabathia, Brantley was actually the lowest rated of the three prospects who went to Cleveland, because no one was sure where he'd fit defensively at the time. Brantley had raised his stock with a good 2008, but he wasn't going to be on any Top 100 anywhere, and he turned out to be that whole deal for Cleveland.

[madbad2000]

Something to keep in mind with the timing of the Miller trade is that is further incentive for Lucroy to accept the trade knowing the Indians are all in this year and next. You want to play for a championship contender? You can have two years of it if you say yes. Might lesson the demand to waive his NTC a bit.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

Heller and Feyereisen are the other two going to New York.

[MadThinker88]

Heller and Feyereisen are the other two going to New York.

 

Tribe overpaid big time for Miller by sending these 4 prosepcts (I'm a fan of Heller and JP) to the Yankees.

 

As a Tribe fan I would have preferred a 1 for 1 Sheffield for Smith.

 

Only way Tribe pays that price to Cashman is if the cost for Smith was thru the roof. Goes back to the adage, if your going to overpay, overpay for the very best. Hence Miller to Tribe & not Smith...

[MadThinker88]

Heller and Feyereisen are the other two going to New York.

 

Heller and JP were 2 names I put on list as good possible PTBNL not in Tribe top 30 list over in the Lucroy trade thread last night...

They are both worthy talents, just not MLB ready at the moment...

[dacbrewers]

So here is the big problem I have now with this, and David Stearns:

 

Im upset that, if rumors are true, that when dealing with the Indians on Jonathan Lucroy, he "insisted" on one of the three of Frazier (ranked 21st), Zimmer (ranked 27th) and Mejia (ranked 70th by Baseball America). Of course the Indians are going to "settle" on their lower ranked prospect. I undertand that he is not advanced as the other two and may have more upside, but both Zimmer and Frazier have tons of upside as well, play premium OF positions, have speed, and power potential....they are 5 tool prospects, and Mejia isnt. He should have insisted on Frazier or Zimmer and then asked for Mejia as an additional piece.

 

And then secondly, he should have known that the Indians were looking for a relief pitcher. Given what they are going to give up for Andrew Miller, who has 2.5 years left at $9 million a year, the Brewers should have at least expected at least Sheffield for 2.5 years of Will Smith.

 

I have a feeling that Lucroy is going to turn down the deal and ask for something crazy on the financial side that will nix the whole deal, but Stearns does not look good in this play of events in my opinion. And if this happens, then he has to go shopping for the next best deal. And if this was what the best was for Lucroy, then the "next best" is even worse, and he has to go back to them with his tail between his legs.

 

If a GM knows that a player has veto rights, the GM should talk to the player before making any deal. He should've known that before getting on the phone with any team. It's a business, talk to your employee. He has a contract with the Brewers not anyone else. I agree with you on this 100%, it makes Stearns look bad. What a wast of time too. If he makes a deal with a non veto team then so be it, Lucroy has no say.

[MilwaukeesBest]

So here is the big problem I have now with this, and David Stearns:

 

Im upset that, if rumors are true, that when dealing with the Indians on Jonathan Lucroy, he "insisted" on one of the three of Frazier (ranked 21st), Zimmer (ranked 27th) and Mejia (ranked 70th by Baseball America). Of course the Indians are going to "settle" on their lower ranked prospect. I undertand that he is not advanced as the other two and may have more upside, but both Zimmer and Frazier have tons of upside as well, play premium OF positions, have speed, and power potential....they are 5 tool prospects, and Mejia isnt. He should have insisted on Frazier or Zimmer and then asked for Mejia as an additional piece.

 

And then secondly, he should have known that the Indians were looking for a relief pitcher. Given what they are going to give up for Andrew Miller, who has 2.5 years left at $9 million a year, the Brewers should have at least expected at least Sheffield for 2.5 years of Will Smith.

 

I have a feeling that Lucroy is going to turn down the deal and ask for something crazy on the financial side that will nix the whole deal, but Stearns does not look good in this play of events in my opinion. And if this happens, then he has to go shopping for the next best deal. And if this was what the best was for Lucroy, then the "next best" is even worse, and he has to go back to them with his tail between his legs.

 

If a GM knows that a player has veto rights, the GM should talk to the player before making any deal. He should of known that before getting on the phone with any team. It's a business, talk to your employee. He has a contract with the Brewers not anyone else. I agree with you on this 100%, it makes Stearns look bad. What a wast of time too. If he makes a deal with a non veto team then so be it, Lucroy has no say.

 

For all we know Stearns did approach Lucroy last week and told him the Indians were a big player for him and asked if he'd approve a trade. He says yes and all is fine and dandy. Last night he is notified by the Indians that they plan to use him every day next year but not necessarily as their starting catcher. Then he rethinks his decision. Long story short, we never know how these negotiations went, but we do know Luc's final decision regarding the matter.

[brewmann04]

well i wonder how much of a cheer luc will get.

[dacbrewers]

So if Lucroy was going to be the starting catcher next year, he wouldn't have vetoed the deal? I don't think so. It comes down to money and he wants more.

[adambr2]

well i wonder how much of a cheer luc will get.

 

If they boo him, it'll be impossible to tell.

[sfl2hnq17]

Based on how much people are spending for pitching, it just depresses me even more that Peralta and Jungmann pitched terrible this year. If either one of them would've pitch near their best this year; oh what we could have gotten.

[MadThinker88]

Based on how much people are spending for pitching, it just depresses me even more that Peralta and Jungmann pitched terrible this year. If either one of them would've pitch near their best this year; oh what we could have gotten.

 

"Free Wiley" Peralta is pitching lousy in AAA as well.

 

Peralta and Jungmann are this year's version of Lohse and Garza from last year..

So sad, on both accounts..

[Oxy]

I feel like Peralta is a prime candidate to put in the closers role. Tell me why not:

[sfl2hnq17]

He can't throw good strikes.

[TheCrew07]

He can't throw good strikes.

 

Neither did K-Rod.