Lucroy to Cleveland - LUCROY HAS VETOED THE TRADE

[jerichoholicninja]

If Jon is still a Brewer on Tuesday he's going to tear an ACL the last week of the season. Call it right now. #BrewersLuck

[Eye Black]

I think people are missing the point on the playing time thing. I can see Lucroy being concerned about playing time as the full-time catcher (that part is key) if the Indians said they would use him as a C/1B/DH. He's a free agent after next year and I'm sure wants to play as much time behind the plate as possible to get a bigger contract when he does become a free agent, because as we all know it likely will be his last chance to do so and his current one wasn't exactly that "big" contract so many players shoot for in their ages 27-32 years.

 

It could be complete hogwash but I don't think it's as big of a stretch as people are making it out to be.

This seems like exactly what it is boiling down to. His goal is to maximize his free agent value and he has a lot more perceived value to teams as a full-time catcher than a C/DH/1B.

[SandyTolan]

I think people are missing the point on the playing time thing. I can see Lucroy being concerned about playing time as the full-time catcher (that part is key) if the Indians said they would use him as a C/1B/DH. He's a free agent after next year and I'm sure wants to play as much time behind the plate as possible to get a bigger contract when he does become a free agent, because as we all know it likely will be his last chance to do so and his current one wasn't exactly that "big" contract so many players shoot for in their ages 27-32 years.

 

It could be complete hogwash but I don't think it's as big of a stretch as people are making it out to be.

This seems like exactly what it is boiling down to. His goal is to maximize his free agent value and he has a lot more perceived value to teams as a full-time catcher than a C/DH/1B.

 

 

Given the Cleveland beat writer's source -- that Lucroy's claim of not being guaranteed playing time at catcher in 2017 -- I think this is a matter of Lucroy doing damage control. I think it really undermines his straight-shooter image. Hypocritical of him, IMO.

[lcbj68c]

At this point, the Brewers need to exercise the option and wait for the offseason for a trade, or better yet, work out an extension.

 

A rushed deal is very likely to be a bad deal. Better to just stand pat.

 

 

Don't they have to wait until the offseason to exercise the option?

[TooLiveBrew]

None of this sounds shocking. I can see why Luc would ask to have his 2017 option declined &/or be guaranteed that he's a catcher next season (for his FA value), & I can see why Cleveland would back away... they made the offer for 1.5 yrs of Luc, not 2-3 months.

 

Trading him in the offseason will net a very similar return to this offer imo, & with more teams building their rosters to contend from Opening Day, the market will be bigger for him as well.

 

I'm not too upset that this deal didn't go through, I'm more disappointed that the market for one of the top 5 catchers in the game was so underwhelming.

[Invader3K]

Some folks are being awfully judgemental towards a player who has been loyal to Milwaukee for his entire big league career. He probably has many things to weigh on his mind in making this decision, like his family, his personal life, and the rest of his career. Anyone pretending to fully understand his rationale right now is making a big reach.

[jerichoholicninja]

I think people are missing the point on the playing time thing. I can see Lucroy being concerned about playing time as the full-time catcher (that part is key) if the Indians said they would use him as a C/1B/DH. He's a free agent after next year and I'm sure wants to play as much time behind the plate as possible to get a bigger contract when he does become a free agent, because as we all know it likely will be his last chance to do so and his current one wasn't exactly that "big" contract so many players shoot for in their ages 27-32 years.

 

It could be complete hogwash but I don't think it's as big of a stretch as people are making it out to be.

This seems like exactly what it is boiling down to. His goal is to maximize his free agent value and he has a lot more perceived value to teams as a full-time catcher than a C/DH/1B.

 

Why should it matter how much he catches next year? Everyone knows he can catch. Giving him a half season off of catching should actually increase his value as it will keep him healthier and fresher.

[Invader3K]

I'm not too upset that this deal didn't go through, I'm more disappointed that the market for one of the top 5 catchers in the game was so underwhelming.

 

This is a good assessment. While I was personally on board with the trade as presented (I liked what I read on Mejia), it definitely seemed like the big market we expected wasn't there. Didn't seem like Stearns' phone was exactly ringing off the hook with huge offers. Sometimes these things have a way of working out how they're supposed to in the long run.

[trwi7]

Some folks are being awfully judgemental towards a player who has been loyal to Milwaukee for his entire big league career. He probably has many things to weigh on his mind in making this decision, like his family, his personal life, and the rest of his career. Anyone pretending to fully understand his rationale right now is making a big reach.

 

He basically said trade me in the offseason and then again during the all-star break, we work out a trade and he declines it. That doesn't sound loyal to me.

[Eye Black]

Before this thread gets locked and moved to it's final resting place in WOAH SOLVDD infamy, here is another look at the propects that would have been included, Bernie Pleskoff's Scouting analysis of (now vetoed) Lucroy deal to Indians.

 

I am going to go on the record by saying out of this package I think Chang ultimately goes on to have the best professional career of the group. He strikes me as player who is still very much developing and refining his skills. I would not be shocked to see him turn into a very solid hitter that can thrive as a 3B.

[jerichoholicninja]

Some folks are being awfully judgemental towards a player who has been loyal to Milwaukee for his entire big league career. He probably has many things to weigh on his mind in making this decision, like his family, his personal life, and the rest of his career. Anyone pretending to fully understand his rationale right now is making a big reach.

 

He basically said trade me in the offseason and then again during the all-star break, we work out a trade and he declines it. That doesn't sound loyal to me.

 

Ya, you can't talk about playing for a winner as much as he has and then say no to go to a first place team. I get the option/money issues but he should have kept his mouth shut the first time.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

What the h.ll is going on out here!!

 

 

 

Sack up Lucroy. You signed the contract, honor it. Well lets see if we can get some quality prospects for our relievers.

[Oxy]

At this point, I'd tear up the extension and offer Luc something like a 3yr/$40M or 4yr/$50M deal. I'd be perfectly happy with him behind the plate at that price. If his value is being questioned, then he is undervalued to the point of needing to keep him. We have plenty of cash. The point is to find inefficiencies in the market. Sometimes those will happen on an individual level rather than a patterned approach of "OBP" or "hard throwing relievers" or "young controllable talent.... The point is to get good value, the point is NOT to get younger at all costs or rigidly hold onto a pattern of thinking just because that's what the pattern says and because young players are cheap and fun exciting and PROSPECTS OH GOD ILUV PROSPECTS.

[adambr2]

And this - #3 tweet from Paul Hoynes:

Source: If Tribe was going to offer SS Chang, C Mejia and OF Allen, it wasn't going to do it for parttime catcher. Lucroy was going to start

 

We get it, Hoynes. It wasn't even THAT big of a return. He's acting like they were giving up 3 top 50 guys to make this happen.

[TooLiveBrew]

At this point, I'd tear up the extension and offer Luc something like a 3yr/$40M or 4yr/$50M deal. I'd be perfectly happy with him behind the plate at that price. If his value is being questioned, then he is undervalued to the point of needing to keep him. We have plenty of cash. The point is to find inefficiencies in the market. Sometimes those will happen on an individual level rather than a patterned approach of "OBP" or "hard throwing relievers" or "young controllable talent.... The point is to get good value, the point is NOT to get younger at all costs or rigidly hold onto a pattern of thinking just because that's what the pattern says and because young players are cheap and fun exciting and PROSPECTS OH GOD ILUV PROSPECTS.

And Luc would turn that offer down without even blinking. Of course the Brewers would be thrilled to have him at that price, that's way under what he's worth.

 

He's set up to be one of the most expensive position player on the FA market after next season. I think 4 yrs/$100M would be the minimum to get him as a FA.

[lcbj68c]

The point is to get good value, the point is NOT to get younger at all costs or rigidly hold onto a pattern of thinking just because that's what the pattern says and because young players are cheap and fun exciting and PROSPECTS OH GOD ILUV PROSPECTS.

 

This x1000. Acquire talent in whatever form and compete. I'm a Brewers fan. I couldn't care less if Brevard County wins a championship.

[Invader3K]

Sack up Lucroy. You signed the contract, honor it.

 

A contract goes both ways. The Brewers agreed to putting the no-trade clause in his contract, and Lucroy is exercising it. What exactly is he not "honoring" here?

[adambr2]

What the h.ll is going on out here!!

 

 

 

Sack up Lucroy. You signed the contract, honor it.

 

I really don't understand how people can say this when the no-trade clause was PART of that contract. He is honoring the contract. Not honoring it would be something like refusing to play when we exercise his cheap team option.

[mattyo]

Frankly, I hated the deal so not upset that its not happening, just embarrassed by the situation now

[trwi7]

I think 4 yrs/$100M would be the minimum to get him as a FA.

 

You're way overvaluing him. Nobody is going to pay a 31 year old catcher $25 million a year for 4 years.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I've gone through a range of emotions on this deal over the past 14 hours. I suspected right away that Lucroy may demand his option be done away with to get him to the market sooner, and regrettably it looks like my instinct was correct. But in the end, I can't blame him at all. I would have done the exact same thing in that position, even if it made me look like a hypocrite after all the "contender" talk.

[And That]

Here's a fun game: which Brewer will be the centerpiece of Trade Deadline Debacle 2017?

[billymac]

Cody Bellinger not in Dodgers AA lineup, please oh please come to the Brewers with Holmes or DeLeon

[TooLiveBrew]

I think 4 yrs/$100M would be the minimum to get him as a FA.

 

You're way overvaluing him. Nobody is going to pay a 31 year old catcher $25 million a year for 4 years.

Brian McCann signed in 2014 (entering his age-30 season) for 5 yrs/$85M. That was what I was using as a quick & dirty benchmark. I think three years later, 4-5 yrs & $100M will be at least what Luc is looking at.

 

And to clarify, what I meant (wasn't clear, sorry) was that it'll take a minimum of 4 years and/or $100M to sign him as a FA. I just can't see him having to sign less than 5 years -- seems like the standard shortest term that established good FAs ever agree to.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Here's a fun game: which Brewer will be the centerpiece of Tradeline Trade Debacle 2017?

 

Candidates would be incredibly limited if it's a contract issue as I believe just Braun and Garza have deals that may extend beyond 2017 (which is incredible). And most of our guys don't have an injury history other than Braun. So my money is definitely on Braun.