Lucroy to Cleveland - LUCROY HAS VETOED THE TRADE

[ValentinVinaJaha]

From ESPN: Cleveland's response to Lucroy's requests was to tell the Brewers that it was their responsibility to appease Lucroy and get him to consent to the agreed-upon trade, a source told ESPN's Buster Olney.

 

Really Indians?? What were the Brewers supposed to do to "appease" him, when you wouldn't guarantee that he'd be the starting catcher next year, nor would waive his option??

Well if that's the case I'd tell Chernoff & Antonetti to go take a leap off of the tallest building they can access in the Mistake By The Lake.

[MadThinker88]

From ESPN: Cleveland's response to Lucroy's requests was to tell the Brewers that it was their responsibility to appease Lucroy and get him to consent to the agreed-upon trade, a source told ESPN's Buster Olney.

 

Really Indians?? What were the Brewers supposed to do to "appease" him, when you wouldn't guarantee that he'd be the starting catcher next year, nor would waive his option??

 

I think I Just heard the same from Ken Rosenthall on MLB network. Heard the Olney and Rosenthsl items back to back.

 

Seems reasonable since a demand to tear up the option would impact the value of things going to Brewers..

[Funketown]

His decision seems odd, unless he thinks the Brewers will trade him to somebody who will decline the club option in the next few hours.

 

The odds are 99% that the Brewers will exercise the option at the end of the year. I suppose there's a chance that he's making a play here with the Brewers to get them to find somebody willing to void the option, but given the timing that seems tough in the next few hours, especially given that the return for trading him for a full year in the offseason is likely higher than the return right now for a 'half-season'.

 

That said, if Lucroy was actually told he may not be the 2017 starter, I completely understand his decision; his value is so closely tied to his position/defense that his FA value would presumably take a hit if things didn't go well.

 

I'm not going to criticize him too much, given that he signed a team-friendly deal with a no-trade clause, I'm just trying to more clearly understand the reasoning here.

[colbyjack]

While I was actually excited about the prospects the teams agreed upon I don't understand how Lucroy rejecting the trade makes anyone (Stearns, the Indians, etc.) look bad as a result. It is what it is, it didn't happen, move on. And it's important to point out that neither team announced the deal. The information was leaked by the media. The two teams agreed to terms and it was up to Lucroy to accept the trade. If none of the info leaks the media and the public never learns about it and this isn't a big deal.

 

I also don't think this should hurt his trade value, especially to a team he can't block a trade to. The asking price should still be the same.

[JosephC]

The whole supposedly not getting playing time in 2017 is a joke, no way Cleveland would make this trade and then not start a top-3 catcher in all of baseball over Gomes.

 

It's pretty simple, Lucroy wanted his 2017 option waived and Cleveland wouldn't give up that package for 0.5 years rather than 1.5 years. Don't blame either side for that, we as Brewers fans just get the short end of it all in the meantime...as is tradition.

 

Exactly. The media will get fed and report the "spin" but it all comes down to money and business and Lucroy tried to leverage his no-trade right into free agency and Cleveland wanted to trade for 1.5 years of Lucroy, not 0.5.

 

The Brewers should have gotten feedback from Lucroy and his agent about what their demands would be for waiving the no-trade clause and been working with that knowledge when dealing with Cleveland. Even if Lucroy and his agent were tight-lipped, it's something that should have been anticipated by both the Brewers and the Indians and the details of the trade should not have become public knowledge like they did. People can bash Lucroy, but neither of the two organizations look very good right now either.

[trwi7]

C'mon guys, this wasn't about being guaranteed a starting spot. That's Lucroy's agent leaking that. This was about him demanding they waive his team option.

 

This. The Indians aren't going to say we're playing Yan Gomes over you. They know Gomes suck, if they didn't, they wouldn't have been in on Lucroy.

[adambr2]

I really hope Cleveland goes out in Game 5 in the first round, after their catchers go 1 for 20 in the playoffs and they lose on a passed ball. I think that would be enjoyable. Or on an extra inning HR by Lucroy with the Red Sox or Astros or Rangers. That would be outstanding.

 

Maybe Boston or Texas will be motivated by the Miller trade enough to look at acquiring one of our relievers + Lucroy in response. It's possible.

[logan82]

His decision seems odd, unless he thinks the Brewers will trade him to somebody who will decline the club option in the next few hours.

 

The odds are 99% that the Brewers will exercise the option at the end of the year. I suppose there's a chance that he's making a play here with the Brewers to get them to find somebody willing to void the option, but given the timing that seems tough in the next few hours, especially given that the return for trading him for a full year in the offseason is likely higher than the return right now for a 'half-season'.

 

That said, if Lucroy was actually told he may not be the 2017 starter, I completely understand his decision; his value is so closely tied to his position/defense that his FA value would presumably take a hit if things didn't go well.

Maybe his value would take a hit. I doubt most GMs would think he can't be a catcher but they would use it as leverage against him. On the other hand he gets a year to rest his body and prolongs his career a bit. It also gives him more of a chance to reach free agency without being injured which would kill his value in FA almost completely. It's a lot of risk vs reward to weigh.

[brewerfan82]

If it's a playing time issue, I don't know what the Brewers can do to appease him. However, if it's a money issue, I guess the Brewers could offer to restructure his deal for 2017 to pay him more and then send the difference along with him to Cleveland so the Indians don't have to pay the extra amount.

 

Of course then I think the Brewers would want something more back in return since they're giving up more. Maybe they can somehow twist this into a way to get McKenzie in the deal. Basically tell the Indians they can get Lucroy to agree to a deal by covering extra money on a restructured contract, but they need McKenzie added to the mix to make it worth it. A deal doesn't get done without the Brewers adding from their end, so if Cleveland doesn't accept it, they don't get Lucroy. Wishful thinking I'm sure, but it would be a fun way to end up with a nicer deal in the long run!

[logan82]

C'mon guys, this wasn't about being guaranteed a starting spot. That's Lucroy's agent leaking that. This was about him demanding they waive his team option.

 

This. The Indians aren't going to say we're playing Yan Gomes over you. They know Gomes suck, if they didn't, they wouldn't have been in on Lucroy.

Gomes is hurt and out 6-8 weeks.

[adambr2]

 

I also don't think this should hurt his trade value, especially to a team he can't block a trade to. The asking price should still be the same.

 

Exactly. How much value did Gomez lose last year after the Mets nixed the trade?

 

Lucroy still has a ton of ability to help a contending team in the playoffs, which is what really matters. If some team wants to pay that price, great. If not, so be it. An AL trade to one of Cleveland's rivals would be more satisfying at this point, but the Dodgers may be more likely.

[homer]

I think people get kind of hung up on prospect rankings. Brewers scouts may very well have the Indians prospects rated higher than others. Or maybe they saw red flags on the pitchers...who knows

[trwi7]

C'mon guys, this wasn't about being guaranteed a starting spot. That's Lucroy's agent leaking that. This was about him demanding they waive his team option.

 

This. The Indians aren't going to say we're playing Yan Gomes over you. They know Gomes suck, if they didn't, they wouldn't have been in on Lucroy.

Gomes is hurt and out 6-8 weeks.

 

And the Indians are a very likely playoff team who will get him back for the playoffs. As I said, they know he sucks and want an upgrade. They aren't benching or moving Lucroy to a different position for him.

[FVBrewerFan]

Move on to the Cubs. They are in "All in" mode and had an offer as good as Cleveland. Who cares if they're in same division.

 

This has to affect deals for Smith, jeffress, Guerra and others too.

[Thurston Fluff]

People are acting like some better deal is going to materialize? This is an unmitigated disaster.

 

IT did last season with Gomez so it can happen. But the chances of that are slim. I wonder if the Mets up their offer a little if it won't balance out in the long run. It's more working parts but if D’Arnaud can stay healthy he could be fairly decent trade bait himself down the road. Maybe two years of him would net us enough to compensate for the lack of prospects in the Luc deal. Not ideal but possible.

[Mr Southpaw]

We still have 24 hours to make a deal with a team not on the list. Just do it. Just not the Mets.

[SandyTolan]

These two tweets from Indian writer Paul Hoynes make the most sense of all the explanations and makes Lucroy look really really bad, IMO:

 

#1:

Lucroy, agent wanted Indians to decline his 2017 ext., making him a FA after this yr. Tribe felt prospects were too high a price for rental

 

#2:

Source: Says Lucroy's reported claim that he nixed deal bec. he wasn't guaranteed starting job bogus based on talent Tribe offer Mil.

[adambr2]

 

This has to affect deals for Smith, jeffress, Guerra and others too.

 

Why would it?

[MadThinker88]

C'mon guys, this wasn't about being guaranteed a starting spot. That's Lucroy's agent leaking that. This was about him demanding they waive his team option.

 

This. The Indians aren't going to say we're playing Yan Gomes over you. They know Gomes suck, if they didn't, they wouldn't have been in on Lucroy.

 

Considering next season once Gomes back healthy....

 

So your suggesting that the pitchers might not have a preference on who they throw too?

I wouldn't be surprised if 1 or 2 of the starting pitchers wanted Gomes as their personal guy. Why should any club box itself in when it doesn't need to?

 

On those days when Gomes catches, Lucroy would most likely be the 1b. People like to point out how good Lucroy is with the bat, why sit him out of games when he is healthy? Splitting time at C would hopefully keep him fresher and better longer.

 

Points for people outside Cleveland to consider:

Napoli signed a 1 year deal. As a free agent for next season and hitting again, very likely outside of Cleveland price range (& unlikely getting a QO)

 

Carlos Santana has an option for next year. At best he is a part time 1b in the field. He is splitting time at 1b to help keep Napoli fresh.

[SandyTolan]

And this - #3 tweet from Paul Hoynes:

Source: If Tribe was going to offer SS Chang, C Mejia and OF Allen, it wasn't going to do it for parttime catcher. Lucroy was going to start

[FVBrewerFan]

 

This has to affect deals for Smith, jeffress, Guerra and others too.

 

Why would it?

 

Two ways. Time and resources focused on what happens next with Lucroy. Other teams sensing weakness and low balling offers for other Brewers trade candidates.

[clancyphile]

At this point, the Brewers need to exercise the option and wait for the offseason for a trade, or better yet, work out an extension.

 

A rushed deal is very likely to be a bad deal. Better to just stand pat.

[colbyjack]

I think people are missing the point on the playing time thing. I can see Lucroy being concerned about playing time as the full-time catcher (that part is key) if the Indians said they would use him as a C/1B/DH. He's a free agent after next year and I'm sure wants to play as much time behind the plate as possible to get a bigger contract when he does become a free agent, because as we all know it likely will be his last chance to do so and his current one wasn't exactly that "big" contract so many players shoot for in their ages 27-32 years.

 

It could be complete hogwash but I don't think it's as big of a stretch as people are making it out to be.

[bill hAll Star]

 

This has to affect deals for Smith, jeffress, Guerra and others too.

 

Why would it?

 

Two ways. Time and resources focused on what happens next with Lucroy. Other teams sensing weakness and low balling offers for other Brewers trade candidates.

 

The Brewers have been getting lowballed for the past month anyways. Guerra and JJ have a value given their team control that other teams probably will not meet.

[bill hAll Star]

At this point, the Brewers need to exercise the option and wait for the offseason for a trade, or better yet, work out an extension.

 

A rushed deal is very likely to be a bad deal. Better to just stand pat.

 

No thanks to an extension. 31 is the peak of the steep cliff for catchers.