Lucroy to Cleveland - LUCROY HAS VETOED THE TRADE

[MrTPlush]

Wow what an idiot. Must really hate Cleaveland. Hope Lucroy turn into a Gomez at the plate and never gets a big payday.

[3and2Fastball]

Ugh. Wow

 

Unmitigated disaster indeed. I had a feeling this would happen. Well, the next 30 hours or so should get very interesting

[NievesNoNO]

Hmm. I liked the supposed deal. Many here did not so I guess we'll see.

 

I just don't see his value being any higher in the off season. All the teams are starting at square one. Who's going to give even one relevant prospect for one year of a guy who may or may not be helpful in a playoff run 150 games away? Sorry, I don't see it. Now is still the best time. Get what you can.

[Oxy]

Well, that was fun.

 

Hopefully we can get more for him at the winter meetings. Catcher is such an important position that I think teams are hesitant to just pick a receiver up at the trade deadline and plug and play him with your pitching staff like it is some sort of video game or fantasy team.

[adambr2]

This is good news. I would rather keep Lucroy for next year and a half and take the Comp Pick then take the crap package the Indians offered anyway.

 

A comp pick has nowhere near the value of what we would have received.

[Brewcrewin07]

What a relief. Terrible deal it would have been.

Thank god! Alls well that ends well.

 

So getting nothing will be better? Do you really think a better deal is coming along in the next 24 hours?

 

no but a single "A" catcher as a headliner is insulting..IF he worked out fine..but he's 20..be years before the rebuild is final at that point. Nothing sayin a comp pick couldn't work out just as well as Mejia. To not get any stud pitching back for him was ridiculous. Stearns just got saved by Luc.

 

I told you all to stop wanting "multiple" players back...take the one for one stud and be done with it..maybe you can't get that, but this deal was insulting..market or no market.

[MilwaukeesBest]

Thank you Luc. You saved us from ourselves.

 

We now have our much needed mulligan now let's get an elite talent back and stop trading for fast giys with no power and middle infielders.

 

I'll address it now, again. What happens if he gets hurt after the deadline, or hits .265 here on out, or the offers in the offseason aren't as significant because it's only a year of control, or teams would rather sign Wilson Ramos/Matt Wieters than package together a bundle of prospects? With the Indians off the board which team is going to step up and unload the appropriate prospects to satisfy you?

 

Not dealing him is an extreme risk. To be upset at every deal Stearns has done is hilarious. Once again, it seems as if no matter what the return the internet troll in you comes out and bashes it.

[logan82]

This is good news. I would rather keep Lucroy for next year and a half and take the Comp Pick then take the crap package the Indians offered anyway.

Comp picks suck. They are after the first round and even a bigger risk than players with at least some minor league track record. Lucroy adds nothing to this team while staying here. Guess he really didn't want to play for a winner.

[BadgerFan]

This will kill any leverage the Brewers had if they still plan on trading Lucroy by the deadline.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Lucroy signed the contract that he is playing under, right?

 

This isn't leverage, this is him screwing the brewers for declining another contract extension.

[3and2Fastball]

And now Frazier plus Sheffield plus 2 more just went to the Yankees for Andrew Miller? Bizarro world

[jjgott]

I'm so confused, people are mad at a player exercising their contractual right? What was the point of Lucroy having a no-trade clause if he couldn't use it?

[Brewcrewin07]

Wow what an idiot. Must really hate Cleaveland. Hope Lucroy turn into a Gomez at the plate and never gets a big payday.

 

Knock it off! So you'd have rather had a "single A catcher as a headliner, then keep Luc around another year??. I for one, do NOT want this "rebuild" to last another 5-6 years. I want it fast tracked. Single A guys won't do that for you. This deal, with the top available chip on the market, was insulting. Period. Luc just saved Stearns from an embarrassment.

[JosephC]

Anybody mind updating the thread for where these guys rank in the Cleveland system and MLB in general? Sure it's already been done, but this thread is moving quickly and I'm trying to make sense of the trade without reading 17 pages!

 

I saw Fangraphs had Mejia at #12 in Cleveland prior to this season. Granted, he's been dominant this season, but that was still surprising to see.

 

I think there are other trades the board has liked (don't we usually have a collective agreement on smaller deals?), and while I'm usually optimistic about these deals, the return here does seem pretty disappointing. But, I'm still at the point where I'll assume Stearns has a better idea of the market and the expected productivity of these players.

 

If you break down prospects into 6 groups:

 

-Elite prospect (top 5 to 10 prospect in all of baseball)

-Top 50 prospect

-Top 100 prospect

-Organizational top 10 prospect (on average, good systems will have more than 10, poor systems will have less than 10...roughly a top 300 prospect in all of baseball)

-Role Player (generally a top 25 prospect in an average system...would roughly cover a prospect ranked between 301-750 in all of baseball)

-Fringe Player

 

I'd put the return as follows:

C-Francisco Mejia (Top 100 prospect)

SS-Yu-Cheng Chang (Organizational top 10 prospect)

OF-Greg Allen (role player)

RHP-Shawn Armstrong (fringe player)

 

Mejia is not in MLB's top 100 but he is #70 in Baseball America's top 100. I tend to lean towards BA's view most of the time so I'd put him solidly as a top 100 player. Chang is borderline between an organizational top 10 prospect and a role player. He's listed at #12 on MLB's top 30 prospects for Cleveland and since Cleveland had one of the better minor league systems I'd bump him to the organizational top 10 prospect group. Greg Allen fits solidly in the role player group. Shawn Armstrong is borderline between the role player and fringe player groups. He is not ranked in MLB's top 30 prospects currently but has appeared between 20-30 in Baseball America's pre-season rankings for several seasons now. Highest he was ever listed was #20 prior to the 2013 season. BA had him at #21 prior to this season. I tend to downgrade him based only on his age and that he's strictly a bullpen guy, someone else could made a solid, legitimate argument that he is every bit the prospect that Allen is and should be put in the role player group. This is not saying that Armstrong is a long-shot to make an impact with the Brewers. He has already pitched in the majors and could step in right away and perform well. This only looks at his perceived value as a prospect, and he just isn't a highly rated player due to his age and the fact that he's a bullpen guy.

 

I think this is a horrible return for Lucroy. The Brewers should have gotten at least 2 top 100 prospects or 1 top 100 prospect and 2 solid top 10 organizational prospects. Depending on how people view Chang, the Brewers might have ended up with only Mejia as a top 300 prospect. Subtracting Allen or Armstrong and adding McKenzie would have made this a solid trade for Milwaukee, but the third and fourth pieces of this trade are not nearly good enough to justify only getting Mejia as a top piece in the group.

[brewer1]

Makes me wonder if the Indians would have done the Miller trade if they knew Lucroy was going to veto.

[MadThinker88]

This is good news. I would rather keep Lucroy for next year and a half and take the Comp Pick then take the crap package the Indians offered anyway.

 

So a catcher prospect who has a chance to be very good is significantly worse than a Comp Pick?

 

And two/ three other pieces with Mejia.

 

People that think 1 comp pick (that might not even be possible with the next CBA after 2017) is better then that entire package should not bred. That level of stupidity needs to be removed from the gene pool ASAP.

[RobDeer 45]

Wow. Unreal. I was getting more and more worried as time went by. Anyone have any insight in to why he wouldn't go to CLE?

[Jenkins5]

This is good news. I would rather keep Lucroy for next year and a half and take the Comp Pick then take the crap package the Indians offered anyway.

 

So a catcher prospect who has a chance to be very good is significantly worse than a Comp Pick?

 

Mejia will be better than any comp pick. He will be one of the top 3 best catching prospects in baseball by next year. He hits & plays D. People are fools if they something sooo much better is coming. You see the trash Mets are offering? If that was the best DS felt he could get with multiple teams competing.... Why would we get more now?

[Boomer5]

Thank you Luc. You saved us from ourselves.

 

We now have our much needed mulligan now let's get an elite talent back and stop trading for fast giys with no power and middle infielders.

 

I'll address it now, again. What happens if he gets hurt after the deadline, or hits .265 here on out, or the offers in the offseason aren't as significant because it's only a year of control, or teams would rather sign Wilson Ramos/Matt Wieters than package together a bundle of prospects? With the Indians off the board which team is going to step up and unload the appropriate prospects to satisfy you?

 

Not dealing him is an extreme risk. To be upset at every deal Stearns has done is hilarious. Once again, it seems as if no matter what the return the internet troll in you comes out and bashes it.

 

Name calling aside, and quite classy, btw, we had 70 pages of wish lists for Luc and I'd challenge you to find one that was as light as this one.

 

Mejia we all like. No question. Allen is a 23 year old just starting AA and his skill set is very redundant. Chang. Whatever. Another middle infielder which is the one area we have covered.

 

But please continue with the name calling.

[jerichoholicninja]

Lucroy signed the contract that he is playing under, right?

 

This isn't leverage, this is him screwing the brewers for declining another contract extension.

 

Using that logic, he should be happy with what he signed because he agreed to it. If he didn't think it was enough then he shouldn't have.

[Boomer5]

Wow. Unreal. I was getting more and more worried as time went by. Anyone have any insight in to why he wouldn't go to CLE?

 

Speculation, but I'm sure it was money.

[MoreTrife]

How is the topic not at least broached with lucroy prior to spending all this time negotiating with the Indians???

[JimH5]

Lucroy signed the contract that he is playing under, right?

 

This isn't leverage, this is him screwing the brewers for declining another contract extension.

 

What is his fair market value? And what opportunities does he have to get FMV?

 

He should use every opportunity to get paid.

[Noche]

I don't understand how this wasn't worked out with Lucroy before we progressed so far

[MadThinker88]

How about this.... Because DS focused on Mejia in package for Lucroy, he lost out on the opportunity to get Mejia for Will Smith.

 

Now Cleveland has paid the high price for Miller. Need for them to consider getting Smith is all but gone.

 

Lucroy refusal to accept trade is his right. But he just screwed the Brewers in the long run..