Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 4)

[HighHeat19]

Hate to play Debbie Downer here, but the Brewers farm is not as good as sports writers make it out to be. The Brewers still need an influx of talent all across the spectrum. The Brewers need to trade Lucroy soon. Ticket sales will not change whether he is here or not. Wins will be hardly affected. And quite frankly, I don't want anyone here especially if they don't want to be here. The biggest contribution Lucroy will make will be the value he brings back in a trade.

 

However, I get the feeling Stearns is trying to pinch out every last penny/prospect he can get. And this will come right down to Monday's wire.

Strongly disagree, while no prospect is lighting it up statistically that doesn't mean there isn't a ton of potential.

 

I see Hader as an ace and Arcia more as a defensive All star but short on the bat (reminds me of Indians SS Omar Vizquel). Lucas Erceg, also looks to be an all star in the making. I like the looks of Freddy Peralta and Ponce. I just don't see Phillips, Clark, Lara, Coulter, Medioros, Nottingham, Roach, Rijo being anything special. And these latter guys were high picks or high trades. I hope I'm wrong. But I would like to see another Hader type and a Moncada type to get really excited about the Brewers system.

 

I'm even questioning the pick of Corey Ray.

[MrTPlush]

The only way/reason the Braves would be interested in Lucroy would be with an extension in tow. They aren't going to trade for him without knowing an extension can be agreed upon. That's why the match makes sense.

[logan82]

Hate to play Debbie Downer here, but the Brewers farm is not as good as sports writers make it out to be. The Brewers still need an influx of talent all across the spectrum. The Brewers need to trade Lucroy soon. Ticket sales will not change whether he is here or not. Wins will be hardly affected. And quite frankly, I don't want anyone here especially if they don't want to be here. The biggest contribution Lucroy will make will be the value he brings back in a trade.

 

However, I get the feeling Stearns is trying to pinch out every last penny/prospect he can get. And this will come right down to Monday's wire.

Strongly disagree, while no prospect is lighting it up statistically that doesn't mean there isn't a ton of potential.

The whole minors looks pretty bad this year. Arcia and Phillips are really underplaying expectations. Colorado is killing our pitchers. There were questions about how much upside we had in our farm to begin with. More accurately how many players would reach that upside.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

Corey Ray makes me question Ray Montgomery's acumen.

[brewerfan82]

So a Braves scout, Ted Simmons is watching the Brewers game. Not sure if it means much for trade deadline reasons though, Braves are in last place. It would be short sighted for them to trade for lucroy

It's possible, here's a recent MLBTradeRumors article about the Braves wanting to trade for a catcher this month and Lucroy being a possibility: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/braves-to-look-for-2017-starting-catcher-on-trade-market.html

[beekay414]

Our system is fine...

[brewcrewdue80]

Come on now. What do you expect from Arcia? Hate to break it to you but Andrelton Simmons was worth 7BWAR with under a .700OPS in 2013. 3+ with under .700 since. Arcia is a Gold Glove contending SS in progress. What he does with the bat is a bonus. To me he's exceeded expectations with his bat not failed. He's showing XBH ability. 31 thus far. Would put him around 50-55 in 660PAs and 175-180hits. SS isn't a position where you are to have .850+OPS guys. Currently there are 4 above .850 and 8 total above .800. 15th is .749. 20 is .664 19:.738 Arcia's .730 would put him #20 currently.

 

Phillips a CF is also not where you seek .850+OPS. What you seek is defense and he's at 1Error on the season in 83Games. He's less than 40pts from where he hit last year and in the midst of a 1month slump. So you're looking at his worst numbers for the most part on the season. Maybe he's trying an adjustment and it hasn't worked out this past month. He's obviously blocked for AAA CF, maybe that's a problem wearing on him. Patience. Whatever it is, I don't see him failing expectations. He too has 31XBHs on the season. The guy disappointing me if Gilbert Lara. But at same time, Jake Gatewood is coming around and exceeding expectations. He'll probably find his way in to top 8 amongst Brewer Prospect ranks here should he continue with this surge.

 

Just remember the production from Catcher/SS/CF are going to be more on the defensive side and Offense is a bonus.

[beekay414]

Come on now. What do you expect from Arcia? Hate to break it to you but Andrelton Simmons was worth 7BWAR with under a .700OPS in 2013. 3+ with under .700 since. Arcia is a Gold Glove contending SS in progress. What he does with the bat is a bonus. To me he's exceeded expectations with his bat not failed. He's showing XBH ability. 31 thus far. Would put him around 50-55 in 660PAs and 175-180hits. SS isn't a position where you are to have .850+OPS guys. Currently there are 4 above .850 and 8 total above .800. 15th is .749. 20 is .664 19:.738 Arcia's .730 would put him #20 currently.

 

Phillips a CF is also not where you seek .850+OPS. What you seek is defense and he's at 1Error on the season in 83Games. He's less than 40pts from where he hit last year and in the midst of a 1month slump. So you're looking at his worst numbers for the most part on the season. Maybe he's trying an adjustment and it hasn't worked out this past month. He's obviously blocked for AAA CF, maybe that's a problem wearing on him. Patience. Whatever it is, I don't see him failing expectations. He too has 31XBHs on the season. The guy disappointing me if Gilbert Lara. But at same time, Jake Gatewood is coming around and exceeding expectations. He'll probably find his way in to top 8 amongst Brewer Prospect ranks here should he continue with this surge.

 

Just remember the production from Catcher/SS/CF are going to be more on the defensive side and Offense is a bonus.

 

Yep. You also have to preach incredible patience with prospects. Not everyone is an Alex Bregman who climbs the ladder quickly. There is no sure fire approach with every single prospect. These kids are prone to slump, learning experiences and adjustments. They are all far from finished products. Things happen and you have to be patient.

[Jenkins5]

If it is Indians a couple guys names that no one talks about who could slip in. These would some sleeper throw in guys

 

Arizona Indians

18 yo 2b Samad Taylor

19 yo SP Felix Tati

 

DSL Indians

17 yo RHP Luis Oviedo

17 yo RHP Jose Oca

17 yo 3B Henry Pujols

17 yo 2b/of Jean Montero

[Boomer5]

Corey Ray makes me question Ray Montgomery's acumen.

 

So far he has been really bad. I see they have him in CF. Anyome have any idea how he looks defensively?

[Boomer5]

Our system is fine...

 

It's not where we thought it would be other than Hader.

 

There are some nice players but there is no Braun and Fielder.

 

The last 3 first round draft picks all look pretty bad. No, the system is not fine. I'm assuming this trade deadline will being back some real difference makers like other teams are doing.

[paul253]

In fairness to Trent Clark he was in HS a little over a year ago. And he tore up Arizona last year. I'm not worried about him yet. Ray has only been playing professionally a few weeks. And he's gotten better after an incredibly slow start. Medeiros on the other hand has looked awful. I really, really wish they would have taken Grant Holmes instead.

[beekay414]

Our system is fine...

 

It's not where we thought it would be other than Hader.

 

There are some nice players but there is no Braun and Fielder.

 

The last 3 first round draft picks all look pretty bad. No, the system is not fine. I'm assuming this trade deadline will being back some real difference makers like other teams are doing.

 

Of course there are no Brauns or Fielders. We haven't picked top 5 in a very long time due to the run on mediocrity outside of 2008 and 2011. However, y'all here just loved Bruce Seid but, truth being told, he left this system in shambles and wasn't all that great at growing with the game. The system is in WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better shape than it was at the end of 2014 when Seid passed. Do you just magically expect our system to get better overnight? Some of you guys have a hard time with patience here from what I've read and aren't exactly in touch with how baseball truly works. LIS, the system is fine. Y'all just want things that are flat out unrealistic. Just because we don't have an elite talent just chilling in the system doesn't mean it's "not fine." There's depth for days and a ton of intriguing talent in our system. You know which guys are struggling the most? The guys that Seid drafted/signed. Ray Montgomery has been really good at his approach to drafting and deserves a little more faith from the keyboard warriors who think they know better. I really didn't like Corey Ray and I've said as much here but I'm more than willing to give Monty the benefit of the doubt.

 

I mean, some of you guys are REALLY harping on Gilbert Lara, an 18 year old, not developing how you'd hoped? Dudes, HE'S 18 YEARS OLD. The way you guys talk about him (some of you), you'd think he was a lost cause because he's not matching your absurd expectations. I mean, we also have people talking definitively about Trent Clark, a 19 year old, as if he's some bust already. Some of you folks put ENTIRELY too much stock in batting average. Learn about peripherals and build from there. After all, this is an analytically based front office now.

 

Brett Phillips has had a bad month but his peripherals outside of his K rate are still solid. I mean, perhaps it's an organizational issue because it's not like the kid just magically can't hit the ball. His K rate with the Brewers is above 30% but with the Astros was never this much of a problem. Is there something the staff changed that they shouldn't have? Perhaps they are asking him to work counts? His walk rate has remained in a good to great range while he's striking out which tells me it's a staff approach with him. I'd love to see his contact rates but unfortunately those things aren't readily available for MiLB players. However, from the multiple higher strikeout rates from the AA guys, it also tells me that it has something to do with plate approach.

 

Orlando Arcia's value was ALWAYS going to come from his defense, folks. Anybody who thought otherwise was just out of touch. Anything he contributes offensively is a bonus. SS is one of the few positions in baseball where defense matters most. It's the reason why, at some point, Carlos Correa will be moved off of the position.

 

Cody Ponce has one bad start after a bunch of gems and people lose their minds right away as if these guys are supposed to be infallible machines.

 

I just don't get the "woe is me" approach here. If you expect everyone to develop on the same timeline and have a few develop into superstars practically overnight, well, you're in for a reality check. There have been so many injuries in the system this year that it's going to cause delays in development. That's just the nature of the sport. Our system is fine, it's your expectations that aren't.

[beekay414]

Medeiros on the other hand has looked awful. I really, really wish they would have taken Grant Holmes instead.

 

The tools are there with Medeiros. He's another one that was always going to be a long term project. As I said in my above post, not everyone is on the same timeline. Kodi's flashed some excellent stuff and is a toolshed. He'll be fine. Worse comes to worst, he's a damn fine back end reliever due to having 2 + pitches.

[Noche]

This is our best minor league system in almost a decade. People can choose to focus on the negatives but that is ignoring the whole.

[beekay414]

This is our best minor league system in almost a decade. People can choose to focus on the negatives but that is ignoring the whole.

Absolutely agree and it's only going to get better.

[brewtank34]

Can we bring it back to Lucroy? There's probably another thread that debates our minor league stock status.

[yfinn6]

Our system is fine...

 

It's not where we thought it would be other than Hader.

 

There are some nice players but there is no Braun and Fielder.

 

The last 3 first round draft picks all look pretty bad. No, the system is not fine. I'm assuming this trade deadline will being back some real difference makers like other teams are doing.

 

However, y'all here just loved Bruce Seid

 

We did?!

 

And yes, please; there are other threads where we can discuss whether or not our system is as good as we think it is. Every time I see updates in this thread I get antsy wondering if there is news or rumors on Lucroy.

[FVBrewerFan]

Can we bring it back to Lucroy? There's probably another thread that debates our minor league stock status.

 

Yes, we're getting way OT here, there are threads in Minor League forums where farm system can (and is) discussed.

[Boomer5]

Can we bring it back to Lucroy? There's probably another thread that debates our minor league stock status.

 

Yes, we're getting way OT here, there are threads in Minor League forums where farm system can (and is) discussed.

 

I was guilty there jumping to the state of minors as in part reason why we had to capitalize on the sellers market of deadline deals due to the system not producing any elite prospects. A minor league system is not graded off how many Scooters and Davis you produce but rather how many Brauns and Fielders you produce. And I will leave it at that.

 

I will stick to Lucroy here of course,but there are only so many combinations of Texas and Cleveland proposals we can make.

[And That]

If it is Indians a couple guys names that no one talks about who could slip in. These would some sleeper throw in guys

 

Arizona Indians

18 yo 2b Samad Taylor

19 yo SP Felix Tati

 

I mentioned Tati, buried about 30 pages ago. Jorma Rodriguez is another guy on their AZL squad that it seems like Stearns would like.

 

Taylor was drafted this year, can't be traded.

[brewcrewdue80]

If it is Indians a couple guys names that no one talks about who could slip in. These would some sleeper throw in guys

 

Arizona Indians

18 yo 2b Samad Taylor

19 yo SP Felix Tati

 

DSL Indians

17 yo RHP Luis Oviedo

17 yo RHP Jose Oca

17 yo 3B Henry Pujols

17 yo 2b/of Jean Montero

 

I believe I mentioned Pujols some pages back along with Oscar Gonzalez. Just due to seeing multiple XBHs in an early number of PAs.

 

BTW, Bobby Bradley is up to 19HRs On his way to HR title in the League he's in. If you're not able to get Zimmer/Frazier I'd assume his bat headlines then next with McKenzie. You want a Run Producing bat in the minors, he'd fit the bill.

[brewmann04]

I would be kinda disappointed if Luc is moved and a Top pitchers does not come back in return.

[fondybrewfan]

Everyone is just rehashing the same prospects and same teams over and over again. I am at the point where I need really hard rumors to get excited. Stearns is way to secretive for my fandom.

 

The Brewers obviously glaring holes in the organization pipeline are starting pitching (High on potential, a little low on results thus far), 1st base (Really nothing going on here), and maybe Catcher (Outside of Nottingham). If those needs align with the prospects we get back that would be awesome; but in the end you really need to get the best players you can regardless of position.

[Boomer5]

Everyone is just rehashing the same prospects and same teams over and over again. I am at the point where I need really hard rumors to get excited. Stearns is way to secretive for my fandom.

 

The Brewers obviously glaring holes in the organization pipeline are starting pitching (High on potential, a little low on results thus far), 1st base (Really nothing going on here), and maybe Catcher (Outside of Nottingham). If those needs align with the prospects we get back that would be awesome; but in the end you really need to get the best players you can regardless of position.

 

Nottingham isnt going to be a catcher, at least not a very good one. He is likely to set records for passed balls and errors. I think the Brewers are trying their best but he seems like a future 1B to me.

 

That is not to say the Luc trade needs to bring an elite catching prospect back but it would be nice if at least one of the pieces is a catcher in the various trades. Other than middle infielder, I don't see a single position where we are too stacked to eliminate that from consideration in these trades.

 

We really need impact pitching whether it is from Luc or the bullpen guys to go at the deadline due to the insane reliever market.

 

Im fine with Stearns being quiet. Anytime a GM speaks these days anyhow its usually misdirection, so its all speculation until they are in the final stages of talks.