Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 4)

[brewerfan82]

The problem is they don't need to get Lucroy to improve their catching situation. If they don't want to give up their top prospects, their catching has been so bad they could target a lesser talent and still be an improved team (both Vogt and Norris have been listed as possible trade candidates). They've played well despite having a hole in their lineup all year, so they could very well decide not to mortgage their future and still improve an obvious need on their team without getting Lucroy.

[brewerfan82]

Ha, great minds FV

[FVBrewerFan]

Ha, great minds FV

 

Jinx. Just hope we're both wrong, and they feel the pressure to get more aggressive and go for a Lucroy deal.

[Brewcrewin07]

I don't get why people are willing to settle for A and AA guys for Luc. What?? So the rebuilding job can MAYBE then start to come to fruition in 5+ years?? No thanks. I want at least 1 or two stud AAA players for Luc. But single A guys should NOT be the centerpieces...they are still too far away.

[FVBrewerFan]

Then you would like the Texas deal, Gallo + someone else. But most here don't like that deal either. And yes, the rebuilding may be 5+ years away regardless of what they get back for Lucroy. (Although with top shelf talent, it won't take those A guys 5 yrs to get to Milwaukee.)

[MKE81]

If the Cubs sign Chapman to an extension then it's not a rental. ALL position players have the potential to impact more games than any pitcher regardless of in rotation or pen. That point is irrelevant. Chapman vs Lucroy isn't apples to apples. They impact the game in different ways. The Cubs are stacked position wise so it's easy for them to give up their top rated prospect to get an elite closer. To the person that said he's arguably top 5 reliever - no - he IS that. Career ERA slightly above 2 giving up 5 hits/9 and 15K/9. He's absolutely dominant and helps that team tremendously late in games.

 

The Indians, as stated above, don't need an elite catcher to upgrade their situation because it's currently non-existent. However, an elite bat/catcher gives them a much greater chance in the post season and because they're loaded with talent they can give up a bunch of talent without actually giving up their top 2 prospects - remains to be seen if that's ok with Stearns though. I really want a trade to happen and to happen with CLE because they line up extremely well even without Frazier/Zimmer in the mix.

[Brewcrewin07]

I'd take the Texas deal...but make it Profar and Gallo...Done. see how easy that is??

[Jose Cardenal1]

Gallo got called up by the Rangers today. Not sure if that makes it more or less likely he is part of a trade. Seems less likely to me.

[adambr2]

 

I said about 70 pages ago Cleveland should be all in this year. They could make this deal for Lucroy, and still have a ton of young talent left. That doesn't mean they see it that way.

 

Hope they enjoy the World Series batting 2 pitchers #8 and #9 on the road, then. Good luck.

 

And their response would be "Good luck with the comp pick you'll get for Lucroy two years from now.

 

To which I'd say, 'What are you talking about? We already traded him to your competitor who made a better offer.'

[MrTPlush]

The Cubs traded for Chapman without an extension. They gave up that package with the understanding he is very likely a rental.

[Oldcity]

Yeah, even if the Cubs do sign Chapman to an extension, it doesn't mean it was because of that trade. They could have just as easily signed him this off-season.

[adambr2]

And if the Cubs lose Chapman, they'll get absolutely nothing. Versus when we gave up a lot for CC Sabathia, at least we knew we had two early comp picks coming if he walked after the season.

[MKE81]

The biggest difference is the Cubs can afford to make a trade like that regardless of whether or not he's in their uniform next year and beyond. They were just shy of the WS last year and with the Mets rotation doing downhill it's very likely they'll be in the WS this year. They'll gladly exchange a shot at a ring for Torres + others dudes that have not, nor most likely ever, impact their MLB roster. The vast majority of teams aren't in that position to begin with.

[BallFour]

@Haudricourt

 

"Stearns agreed that he knows what his next move will be but not what other GM’s will be, which keeps it interesting. Always one call away."

 

Reading into this can we all just calm down on Stearns squandering Lucroy as an asset. Can we stop panicking like its the night of August 1st with no trades.

[SRB]

I don't get why people are willing to settle for A and AA guys for Luc. What?? So the rebuilding job can MAYBE then start to come to fruition in 5+ years?? No thanks. I want at least 1 or two stud AAA players for Luc. But single A guys should NOT be the centerpieces...they are still too far away.

 

Then you're going to have to settle for a back-of-the-rotation starter or average starting position player. The advantage of low-minors players is you get potential superstars.

[Brewcrewin07]

I don't get why people are willing to settle for A and AA guys for Luc. What?? So the rebuilding job can MAYBE then start to come to fruition in 5+ years?? No thanks. I want at least 1 or two stud AAA players for Luc. But single A guys should NOT be the centerpieces...they are still too far away.

 

Then you're going to have to settle for a back-of-the-rotation starter or average starting position player. The advantage of low-minors players is you get potential superstars.

 

Potential being the key word...Luc is too valuable to throw away on player(s) with POTENTIAL. He's a proven commodity, thus you should get proven commodity(s) back. If the potential doesn't pan out, you set the rebuilding back even further. A back of the rotation starter or average position player for an All star catcher under control for another year and a half and potentially the best at his position?? If that's the best you can do...hold him and take the comp pick..that player would have as much potential as a low A player would.

[logan82]

We should trade for potential. We don't want to be trading for guys that will only give us 5 or fewer years of team control. All prospects are just potential until they play in the majors and are proven.

[dacrew101]

I don't get why people are willing to settle for A and AA guys for Luc. What?? So the rebuilding job can MAYBE then start to come to fruition in 5+ years?? No thanks. I want at least 1 or two stud AAA players for Luc. But single A guys should NOT be the centerpieces...they are still too far away.

 

Then you're going to have to settle for a back-of-the-rotation starter or average starting position player. The advantage of low-minors players is you get potential superstars.

 

Potential being the key word...Luc is too valuable to throw away on player(s) with POTENTIAL. He's a proven commodity, thus you should get proven commodity(s) back. If the potential doesn't pan out, you set the rebuilding back even further. A back of the rotation starter or average position player for an All star catcher under control for another year and a half and potentially the best at his position?? If that's the best you can do...hold him and take the comp pick..that player would have as much potential as a low A player would.

 

Who are these proven stud AAA players you want? I'm guessing Gallo and who else?

[adambr2]

I don't get why people are willing to settle for A and AA guys for Luc. What?? So the rebuilding job can MAYBE then start to come to fruition in 5+ years?? No thanks. I want at least 1 or two stud AAA players for Luc. But single A guys should NOT be the centerpieces...they are still too far away.

 

Then you're going to have to settle for a back-of-the-rotation starter or average starting position player. The advantage of low-minors players is you get potential superstars.

 

Right, contending teams are not typically trading AAA stud players who are on the brink of helping them already. They're trading away guys who are years away from helping them to get guys to help them win now.

 

In any event, I don't know why we'd want to target AAA players anyway. There is no window of contention this year, or next year. Probably not even in 2018. We'll take many shots to get the most upside possible. Players who end up being studs in MLB also typically do not take 5+ years to get from A ball to MLB. I would guess it's around 3 on the average.

[adambr2]

I don't get why people are willing to settle for A and AA guys for Luc. What?? So the rebuilding job can MAYBE then start to come to fruition in 5+ years?? No thanks. I want at least 1 or two stud AAA players for Luc. But single A guys should NOT be the centerpieces...they are still too far away.

 

Then you're going to have to settle for a back-of-the-rotation starter or average starting position player. The advantage of low-minors players is you get potential superstars.

 

Potential being the key word...Luc is too valuable to throw away on player(s) with POTENTIAL. .

 

That is kind of the point of the rebuild. You're trading away proven commodities for potential superstars. Deadline deals between buyers and sellers are commodity for prospect deals, not commodity for commodity. Rebuilding clubs aren't really in the business of trying to acquire proven commodities and contenders aren't really in the business of trading them.

 

And a few top 51-100 minors players, at any level in the minors, is worth way, way more than a comp pick.

[Brewcrewin07]

If you do this right...you can be a winner again in 2-3 years. Why wait longer if the possibility exists to do it sooner?? It's about using your assets to acquire the right players that will get you back to where you want to be the soonest..that's the scouts/GM's job to identify those players...but I'd be willing to bet NONE of those players are currently in A. Typically they are in A ball for a reason. if they were THAT good right now, they'd be in AAA or even in the bigs right now..Sure you might get the right guy that's at A right now that will be a total stud in3 years...but good luck identifying that. It's a lot easier to identify the already proven commodities..that's what Luc is...that's what you should get in return. Period.

 

As far as the control mentioned above...who cares about that?? People here but too much stock in that...if they can play...they will be resigned by the Brewers...Attanasio is NOT Bud Selig. People seem to forget that.

[Brewcrewin07]

Then you're going to have to settle for a back-of-the-rotation starter or average starting position player. The advantage of low-minors players is you get potential superstars.

 

 

 

That is kind of the point of the rebuild. You're trading away proven commodities for potential superstars. Deadline deals between buyers and sellers are commodity for prospect deals, not commodity for commodity. Rebuilding clubs aren't really in the business of trying to acquire proven commodities and contenders aren't really in the business of trading them.

 

And a few top 51-100 minors players, at any level in the minors, is worth way, way more than a comp pick.

 

IF IF IF they realize that potential...that's the key...Look at Mat Gamel, look at several other minor league ball players(especially for the Brewers), that had "star" potential, that flamed out. You get 3 minor league players say ranked 96-99...now what happens if NONE of them pan out?? You are right back to square 1 and have to start all over again. Give me two top 25-50 prospects and I will bet all of Donald Trump's $$ that the odds of one of them working out to be a superstar are better than the odds that any of the 3 ranked 96-99 will.

[PeaveyFury]

Proven AAA players? Lottery tickets? Really guys, it doesn't have to be one or the other, especially with Cleveland. Both Frazier and Zimmer are in AAA and likely to be up to contribute in 2018, aka the first potentially competitive-ish season for the Brewers.

 

Snag one of those two as the centerpiece of the deal, then supplement with highly-rated A/A+ ball guys like we've also discussed here, and you have a very happy medium that infuses talent into the low-mid-and high levels of the organization.

[And That]

That's all well and good Brewcrewin07 - who are the specific players the Brewers could plausibly acquire that meet your criteria?

[dacrew101]

Id love to have two top 50 prospects too, but that's not easy to get.. And anyways, those rankings don't always matter. Some guys could enter the top 50 rankings next year..