Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 4)

[beekay414]

1B-Bobby Bradley, RHP-Brady Aiken, RHP-Mike Clevinger (I'd prefer Clevinger)

LHP-Rob Kaminsky OR LHP-Juan Hillman (I'd prefer Kaminsky)

 

Can I ask why you prefer the lower ceiling players in these two spots? Kaminsky is likely a BOR starter and Clevinger is most likely a MOR type guy while Aiken has ace potential, Bradley has middle of the order power bat potential and Hillman is a "get him before he blows up" type prospect. We have more than enough Kaminsky and Clevinger types in this system already. Honestly, I don't see any major difference is between Zach Davies and those two and we got Davies for 3 months of Gerardo Parra, not 1.5 years of Jonathan Lucroy. I mean, Kaminsky got traded straight up for Brandon Moss just last year.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

Aiken has been sitting 86-88 with his fastball this year. Has the Indians worried. It will be interesting to see if he can get his velocity back.

[HighHeat19]

1B-Bobby Bradley, RHP-Brady Aiken, RHP-Mike Clevinger (I'd prefer Clevinger)

LHP-Rob Kaminsky OR LHP-Juan Hillman (I'd prefer Kaminsky)

 

Can I ask why you prefer the lower ceiling players in these two spots? Kaminsky is likely a BOR starter and Clevinger is most likely a MOR type guy while Aiken has ace potential, Bradley has middle of the order power bat potential and Hillman is a "get him before he blows up" type prospect. We have more than enough Kaminsky and Clevinger types in this system already. Honestly, I don't see any major difference is between Zach Davies and those two and we got Davies for 3 months of Gerardo Parra, not 1.5 years of Jonathan Lucroy. I mean, Kaminsky got traded straight up for Brandon Moss just last year.

 

I agree. Give me Aiken, Sheffield, Mckenzie, Mejia, Hillman. And the choice of SS Chang OR SS Krieger and we give em Lucroy, Jeffress and choice of Kyle Wren or Victor Roache. They get to keep Zimmer and Frazier.

 

Done Deal.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

Brady Aiken is a LHP.

[adambr2]

Is it possible that Stearns is insisting on Frazier being the centerpiece right now? We really don't know how the conversations are going, so while it might appear right now that the Indians should be able to get this done without using their top 2 or 3 prospects, maybe Stearns doesn't see it that way -- at least not this far away from the deadline when there's still plenty of time for a bidding war to start.

 

In the end, I expect a deal with the Indians centered several top 51-100s as we suspect. It just makes far too much sense, it's just the perfect fit of need on their end and farm system on ours. I can't see them being stubborn enough to pass this chance up when they're getting pitcher quality ABs from their catchers all season and we have one of the best in the business available.

[SRB]

I could see Stearns demanding one of Frazier or Zimmer as the "safe" headliner, probably RHP Tristan McKenzie (he just seems like a Stearns prospect), and a couple lower-level fliers, maybe LHP Juan Hillman (19 yo, A-) and 2B Mark Mathias (21yo, A+). However, I also think Stearns is going to end up packaging Smith to get the package he wants.

 

My final Cleveland prediction:

 

C Jonathan Lucroy

LHP Will Smith

 

for

 

OF Bradley Zimmer

RHP Tristan McKenzie

LHP Juan Hillman

2B Mark Mathias

 

It's possible that Stearns demands C Francisco Mejia instead of McKenzie, given how aggressively the organization targeted young catchers in the last draft, but on the other hand that might cut the other way if they like the guys they've got.

[Brewcrewin07]

I don't know why many of you think that the Indians shouldn't have to give up their "untouchables"?? You have to give something to get something and quite frankly, if Stearns lowers is asking price just to make a deal...well..then he doesn't get it either. Look at what Chapman...a relief pitcher just brought from the Cubs to the Yankees. If a relief pitcher can get that, then LuCroy should easily be worth that. If I'm Stearns I either get exactly what I want...or Jonathon goes nowhere. Period. Get major league ready talent....speaking of which, why not ask for Trevor Bauer?? Or one of their other Stud arms...so what if they say no. I'm asking if I'm Stearns, even if it means including more to get it done.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I don't know why many of you think that the Indians shouldn't have to give up their "untouchables"?? You have to give something to get something and quite frankly, if Stearns lowers is asking price just to make a deal...well..then he doesn't get it either. Look at what Chapman...a relief pitcher just brought from the Cubs to the Yankees. If a relief pitcher can get that, then LuCroy should easily be worth that. If I'm Stearns I either get exactly what I want...or Jonathon goes nowhere. Period. Get major league ready talent....speaking of which, why not ask for Trevor Bauer?? Or one of their other Stud arms...so what if they say no. I'm asking if I'm Stearns, even if it means including more to get it done.

 

I will be very surprised if the return on Lucroy has a centerpiece of major league ready talent. They aren't going to deplete their MLB roster, that makes zero sense for them when they are trying to win a WS this year. Which is exactly why it makes sense to target guys like McKenzie. Try to get one of the more sure things like Frazier/Zimmer, insist on McKenzie and try to get Hillman too. We don't know what offers are on the table but based on the rumors out there, Cleveland doesn't like the asking price which means Stearns is probably asking for deals like the ones we've constructed on this board or maybe even more.

[yoshii8]

If I'm trading w/ the Indians, I want 1b Bobby Bradley, P Justus Sheffield, and C Francisco Mejia. I think that's a fair return. We get our 1b prospect we desperately need, and a potential top of the rotation starter and a pretty good catching prospect.

[Boomer5]

Aiken has been sitting 86-88 with his fastball this year. Has the Indians worried. It will be interesting to see if he can get his velocity back.

 

This is interesting. Aiken wasn't a "real" first pick in the draft guy anyhow due to the underslot plans for him.

[brewcrewdue80]

BA lists a Prospect Report quite often. It'll have blurbs on some prospects such as this:

Triston McKenzie, rhp, Indians. The Brooklyn-born teenager—he turns 19 on Aug. 2—continued his dominant season on Monday. McKenzie, a supplemental first-rounder in 2015, allowed just three hits and two runs in 6 2/3 innings against short-season Connecticut (Tigers) in a 3-2 win for Mahoning Valley. McKenzie is 4-2, 0.61 with 47 strikeouts and just 28 hits allowed in 44 innings. The 6-foot-5, 165-pounder is dominating young hitters with his advanced pitchability and plus fastball-curveball combination.

Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/baseball-america-prospect-report-july-26/#B88xYigvr1hwVF0k.99

 

Also, has a gameday batting notes. Like seeing Gatewood have 2BBs and his 11th HR. He's at 12bbs now on the season to 104ks. But I think I recall it was once 1:81 or 83 So 11:22 we'll say since. He's also up to 24 doubles and really enjoying seeing his improvement in the stats. Now when will Gilbert Lara start showing that improvement?

 

Anyway, Tristan McKenzie is the no-brainer in Lucroy's trade. He reads so well, I'd take less in the trade offers just to make sure it included him. He's a guy that is maybe headed to top 50, 100 for sure by season's end.

 

Frazier and McKenzie plus the throw-in type. Utility or RP. That would be a quality offer a top 40 prospect, future top 100 or better and throwin. But McKenzie at 18 along with Diplan, F.Peralta, Ponce, Medeiros, Kirby, and D. Williams. There is a lot of future there in Pitching in 3years.

[billymac]

I agree that McKenzie is a must have in a Indians trade of all their pitchers. Exactly the type of pitcher that Stearns has been targeting. He could be a top 50 pitcher within a year like Martes shot up the ranks.

[Manty Brewer Fan]

The two players any deal with Cleveland I think has to bring back are Mejia and McKenzie. Those are two guys I want the most and I think long-term will be the best players in their system.

 

I'm not a fan of Aiken or Sheffield.

 

My ideal trade is:

Lucroy, Will Smith and Torres

for

Frazier, Bradley, Mejia, McKenzie and Juan Hillman

[pacopete4]

The two players any deal with Cleveland I think has to bring back are Mejia and McKenzie. Those are two guys I want the most and I think long-term will be the best players in their system.

 

I'm not a fan of Aiken or Sheffield.

 

My ideal trade is:

Lucroy, Will Smith and Torres

for

Frazier, Bradley, Mejia, McKenzie and Juan Hillman

 

 

He shouldn't be included in this deal. Either he fetches us high end prospects on his own or we wait to have him truly get his velocity and trade him next year for an even higher ransom. If the Indians want Lucroy, what you're asking for isn't out of the question without Smith.

[mlloyd10]

See the tigers being in on Lucroy - WOuld you trade Lucroy for a package centered around Norris?

[Manty Brewer Fan]

The two players any deal with Cleveland I think has to bring back are Mejia and McKenzie. Those are two guys I want the most and I think long-term will be the best players in their system.

 

I'm not a fan of Aiken or Sheffield.

 

My ideal trade is:

Lucroy, Will Smith and Torres

for

Frazier, Bradley, Mejia, McKenzie and Juan Hillman

 

 

He shouldn't be included in this deal. Either he fetches us high end prospects on his own or we wait to have him truly get his velocity and trade him next year for an even higher ransom. If the Indians want Lucroy, what you're asking for isn't out of the question without Smith.

 

 

Expecting lucroy and torres to bring back those 5 prospects is unrealistic IMO. Can probably drop Bradley and Hillman off of it, so I would gladly add Smith to get Hillman and Bradley. It is crazy season in how good prospects are flying around in the deals so far, so who knows, but it seems like a stretch.

[MKE81]

Agree with others regarding McKinzie. He absolutely must be in any return. I would do what it took to get a return of Zimmer, Bradley, McKinzie, Mejia, Hillman. I'm assuming Frazier won't be traded. Lucroy, Smith + 1-2 should get this done. I would love to get McKinzie and Hillman in return regardless of who's traded as we'd get multiple young SPs (righty and lefty) who project well and pound the zone. Add Zimmer to the OF with Braun, Phillips (not to mention Santana, Ray, Clark, etc) would be outstanding. Bradley a legit 1b prospect with power who gets on base (lefty too). A top rated catching prospect (lefty) to compete with Nottingham. Cream always rises; load up with talent and let the players figure it out with performance. Absolutely worst case I want McKinzie + 2 of Zimmer, Bradley, Mejia in a return if we're trading with the Indians

[MKE81]

The two players any deal with Cleveland I think has to bring back are Mejia and McKenzie. Those are two guys I want the most and I think long-term will be the best players in their system.

 

I'm not a fan of Aiken or Sheffield.

 

My ideal trade is:

Lucroy, Will Smith and Torres

for

Frazier, Bradley, Mejia, McKenzie and Juan Hillman

 

 

He shouldn't be included in this deal. Either he fetches us high end prospects on his own or we wait to have him truly get his velocity and trade him next year for an even higher ransom. If the Indians want Lucroy, what you're asking for isn't out of the question without Smith.

Frazier, Bradley, Mejia are already Top 100 and McKinzie will skyrocket up that list after this year. You honestly believe Lucroy, without Smith, will net us that return? I think that's wishful thinking given Gomez (all-star, GG) was netting us Santana, Hader, Houser by himself. That's 2 top 100 and Hader wasn't ranked until before this season.

[FVBrewerFan]

Just have this feeling a deal doesn't get done with the Tribe. Seems like they would like to have Lucroy, but it would be more of a luxury than a need- in their opinion. And if that's the case, they're never going to be willing to offer what Stearns would (and should) want back.

[billymac]

I think if a team comes close, better break out the negotiating gloves to get a deal done. Lucroys value takes a serious hit on Aug 2nd and those close deals would be dream deals in the offseason granted he's still healthy and performing

[reillymcshane]

See the tigers being in on Lucroy - WOuld you trade Lucroy for a package centered around Norris?

I like Norris, but his constant little injuries are worrisome. I know he's been discussed, and some people like the guy, others don't. Like I said, I'd be happy with him, but he's by no means perfect. Still, he's Major League ready, five years of control (beyond 2016).

 

Beyond Norris, you need something else, and the Tiger system is pretty bare. I guess it comes down to the finding the fit.

 

The Tigers GM said he doesn't expect any 'sexy' moves at the deadline. JD Martinez, Norris and Zimmerman are all coming back from injuries in the next week or two, so they are hoping to make a push at that time. But they could really use Lucroy - plus a few pitchers.

[splitterpfj]

I have a feeling Stearns is waiting for Texas to finish their search for a starting pitcher, so he's first in line with both the Indians and Rangers. Both teams want Lucroy, I simply do not believe otherwise, but they've stopped short of the big offer to get him.

 

When they're both focused on Milwaukee, someone will move.

[trwi7]

I have a feeling Stearns is waiting for Texas to finish their search for a starting pitcher, so he's first in line with both the Indians and Rangers. Both teams want Lucroy, I simply do not believe otherwise, but they've stopped short of the big offer to get him.

 

When they're both focused on Milwaukee, someone will move.

 

That's going to backfire hard if the Rangers get a pitcher.

[madbad2000]

Cleveland should be looking longterm in the playoffs. If they make it to the World Series, how do they expect to compete throwing out a lineup with 2 black holes including their pitcher slot? The fit is too perfect. Cleveland is getting an All Star catcher for 2 playoff runs. I'm pulling for the Indians. Not a time to be cheap

[Austin Tatious]

I really don't think we are getting Bradley AND Zimmer AND McKenzie plus teens. I don't see it.

 

I think the Tribe can leave their top 4 out but we get a higher volume of lower ranked guys.

 

McKenzie is the guy to get. The Tribe won't want to give him up, but they have to give up something and they know it. This is why Milwaukee needs to put premium draft picks on high upside pitchers. Their value is astronomical.

 

I'd want Mejia because it involves a premium position. From there, you can get a couple of other guys and bicker about the final parameters both ways. If Will Smith is involved, then commensurate value is coming back. Hillman, Chang, et al.