Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 4)

[FVBrewerFan]

Rosenthal reporting that the Tigers are one of the teams talking to Brewers about Lucroy. Do they honestly have any prospects in their system that would be worth our time?

 

I don't think they have enough for Lucroy. I would take Christin Stewart and Joe Jimenez for Jeffress or Smith though.

[Jenkins5]

I will pass on the Tigers system, although I don't know the situation with their lottery tickets, just like none of us really knew about Missaki, Herrera, and F Peralta before they came back from Seattle.

 

If we do trade with Detroit, let's not panic and we will have to do some serious studying.

 

Yuck but could work...won't be exciting at all. Stewart would need to be the headliner. His power and ability to walk are up there with the best in all of the Minors. He is also doing it in FSL which is not the most power hitter friendly league out there. Joe Jimenez is one of the top Milb closers out there & should be included. Gerson Moreno is a 20 RP who would be nice add in...

 

Im not overally impressed with Burrows but must add him to be able to get anything done. 19 year old and understand pitching like DS likes. Tyler Alexander or Matt Hall could be decent lefty SP to mix in.

 

Lucroy

for

Beau Burrows

Christian Stewart

Joe Jimenez

 

could possibly do it, but just not sexy at all. Young talent is hard to find in that system....

[Bnowell4evr]

I'd take a Daniel Norris, Beau Burrows and Christin Stewart package for Lucroy. Norris is getting hit around pretty hard in AAA and Burrows can't miss any bats in A ball. So getting a solid 3rd piece like Stewart should be a reasonable request in this situation.

[Warning Track Power]

If we are daydreaming, how about Will Smith, Lucroy, and either Nelson or Guerra to Boston

 

Coming back Benintendi, Kopech, Swihart and a lottery ticket.

If the deal is Lucroy and Smith OR Jeffress for Benintendi, Kopech and Swihart....I am in.

[MrTPlush]

I bet the Tigers are the mystery team. They are contending and have a need. Usually a team looking for a midseason splash.

 

If the Indians are worried about Gomes and his contract why not offer to take him back? We need a catcher these next few years any way and $5mil-$7mil isn't that much. He also has bounce back potential and a veteran with good defense to help our pitchers. Now I wouldn't immediately pick up Gomes. In my mind they would have to make an offer Stearns prefers notably more than other best offers. Why not?

[MrTPlush]

I get so confused when I see a trade proposal from someone and it is something like "Nelson OR Guerra". What? Are you inferring their value is close or are you basically just saying whatever it takes to get them? Start with Guerra and if they say no throw Nelson into the deal?

[LouisEly]

Im not overally impressed with Burrows but must add him to be able to get anything done. 19 year old and understand pitching like DS likes. Tyler Alexander or Matt Hall could be decent lefty SP to mix in.

 

Lucroy

for

Beau Burrows

Christian Stewart

Joe Jimenez

 

could possibly do it, but just not sexy at all. Young talent is hard to find in that system....

I actually proposed this about 600 posts ago.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Im not overally impressed with Burrows but must add him to be able to get anything done. 19 year old and understand pitching like DS likes. Tyler Alexander or Matt Hall could be decent lefty SP to mix in.

 

Lucroy

for

Beau Burrows

Christian Stewart

Joe Jimenez

 

could possibly do it, but just not sexy at all. Young talent is hard to find in that system....

I actually proposed this about 600 posts ago.

Probably a coincidence because that's all the MiLB value they have to offer. Still gross.

[wichmae]

Or they could trade Matt Manning couldnt they? I would rather have Manning than Jimenez. I dont think the Tigers could come up with enough to land him. It would have to be so watered down it wouldnt be worth the time to entertain.

[reillymcshane]

Or they could trade Matt Manning couldnt they? I would rather have Manning than Jimenez. I dont think the Tigers could come up with enough to land him. It would have to be so watered down it wouldnt be worth the time to entertain.

Nope. Can't trade Manning until after a year of being drafted. And you can't do the old 'PTBNL' trick either. That's been banned.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Or they could trade Matt Manning couldnt they? I would rather have Manning than Jimenez. I dont think the Tigers could come up with enough to land him. It would have to be so watered down it wouldnt be worth the time to entertain.

With the new Trea Turner rule I believe they cannot until after the World Series.

[reillymcshane]

Detroit system isnt great. If you stuck with minor leaguers, it's Beau Burrows and Christian Stewart. Both are in A ball.

 

Stewart has some big power - 21 HRs in the FSL - that's pretty amazing. The next closest guy is at 15.

 

They have Derek Hill as well, but he's strictly a speed guy and I'd rather go after the big bat and a pitcher.

 

I honestly don't know that much about their players, but something around Stewart and Burrows would be nothing special. I've said before that I like Norris, but he has had his issues thus far. For Norris, it's about control, and he could be a stud if he could improve it (but so could lots of guys).

 

To me, I would be looking at Norris, Stewart and then some for Luc. I know many wouldn't like that deal, but I think Norris has the upside we are looking for in a pitcher. And Stewart offers a big power bat.

[HighHeat19]

Just because Burrows is listed at #1 on the top 30 list means nothing to me.

 

Here is what I would need to pull off a trade from Detroit for Lucroy.

 

1. Joe Jimenez

2. Christian Stewart

3. Jose Azocar (A true centerfielder)

4. Gerson Moreno

5. Arvicent Perez (Great defensive Catcher with awesome arm strength)

6. Matt Hall

7. Paul Voelker

 

Yes, Detroit would need to surrender 7 guys. Surefire's are absent in Detroit's farm.

[reillymcshane]

Or they could trade Matt Manning couldnt they? I would rather have Manning than Jimenez. I dont think the Tigers could come up with enough to land him. It would have to be so watered down it wouldnt be worth the time to entertain.

With the new Trea Turner rule I believe they cannot until after the World Series.

Yes, you are correct.

[JosephC]

A trade with Detroit is the same dead on arrival situation as would be with the Mets. At least the Mets could give up both their top prospects (which they wouldn't) plus a couple more guys each way to even things out, but the Tigers don't even have that. I wouldn't consider a deal with the Tigers even if they offered any five players out of their minor league system.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Jerry Crasnick on Twitter:

 

The #Indians have had dialogue with #Brewers on Jonathan Lucroy and reliever Will Smith. One-stop shopping to fill two needs?

[Eye Black]

This is a little random and not really much can be gleaned from it, but I was curious about the trades that have involved an MLB catcher in the month of July (since 2000). Below is what I came across, it may be missing some. I don't think any of the catchers involved had as much value as Lucroy does currently, but the Victor Martinez trade probably most closely resembles the current situation although Martinez was splitting time at C and 1B/DH when the Indians traded him.

 

Charles Johnson, Age 28, 0.5 years remaining

July 29, 2000: Traded by the Baltimore Orioles with Harold Baines to the Chicago White Sox for Miguel Felix (minors), Juan Figueroa (minors), Jason Lakman (minors) and Brook Fordyce.

 

Paul Lo Duca, Age 32, 3.5 years remaining

July 30, 2004: Traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers with Juan Encarnacion and Guillermo Mota to the Florida Marlins for Hee-Seop Choi, Bill Murphy and Brad Penny.

 

Brent Mayne, Age 36, 0.5 years remaining

July 31, 2004: Traded by the Arizona Diamondbacks with Steve Finley to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Reggie Abercrombie (minors), Koyie Hill and Bill Murphy.

 

Jason Kendall, Age 33, 0.5 years remaining

July 16, 2007: Traded by the Oakland Athletics with cash to the Chicago Cubs for Jerry Blevins and Rob Bowen.

 

Ivan Rodriguez, Age 36, 0.5 years remaining

July 30, 2008: Traded by the Detroit Tigers to the New York Yankees for Kyle Farnsworth.

 

Victor Martinez, Age 30, 1.5 years remaining

July 31, 2009: Traded by the Cleveland Indians to the Boston Red Sox for Nick Hagadone, Justin Masterson and Bryan Price.

 

Bengie Molina, Age 35, 0.5 years remaining

July 1, 2010: Traded by the San Francisco Giants to the Texas Rangers for Michael Main (minors) and Chris Ray.

 

Geovany Soto, Age 29, 0.5 years remaining

July 31, 2012: Traded by the Chicago Cubs to the Texas Rangers for Jake Brigham and player to be named or cash.

[MrTPlush]

I have heard how rare it is to see catchers switch hands midseason, but why is that? Do we actually know? Are teams afraid to downgrade their defense at the catching position? Is the improvement just not worth it to throw in someone new midseason? Or are teams just not typically looking to trade a good catcher? I am trying to think of some really good catchers that have recently been traded, but I can't think of any. Most are being signed in free agency.

 

 

Two things I would love to know:

 

1. How many catchers of Lucroy's greatness have been very much available at past deadlines to not be traded?

 

2.Who are some elite catchers that have been traded recently in the offseason?

[QuevedosTongue]

In theory, the effectiveness is lessened because it takes time for a new catcher to learn a new staff. I don't know that I buy that.

[FVBrewerFan]

Mike Piazza trade(s) first thing that came to mind. And that wasn't a deadline trade. Very rare for a catcher of Lucroy's calibre to be available at the deadline. So rate I can't even recall one either.

[MrTPlush]

Mike Piazza trade(s) first thing that came to mind. And that wasn't a deadline trade. Very rare for a catcher of Lucroy's calibre to be available at the deadline. So rate I can't even recall one either.

 

See and that's the reason I don't think we should put him apart of the generalization that catchers don't move midseason. While that is true guys of Lucroy's caliber usually aren't available. Now if someone came along with some examples of teams having difficulties finding buyers for other elite catchers you would have my attention.

[Eye Black]

Just to be clear I wasn't trying to make any specific conclusions about the lack of catchers traded, just thought it was interesting to see some of the past trades. There isn't a large enough sample to really gain knowledge or make inferences regarding Lucroy's value. A Lucroy trade may very well set the standard that is referenced in future trade speculation surrounding top catchers.

 

The player on the previous list that most closely applies (Martinez) was traded for a player who had been a top 100 prospect and was pitching in his second MLB season at 24 yrs old (Masterson), a player who the following season would rank as Baseball America's #46 overall prospect (Hagadone), and a player who was drafted in the first round a year earlier (Price). While those guys didn't reach their ceilings I think it looked like a solid haul at the time.

 

There aren't a lot of examples to compare Lucroy to, value wise he is already within the top 80-100 catchers of all-time. Here is a look at All-Time Catchers WAR and JAWS rankings. Of the more recent guys in the all-time top 120 that have been traded at either different times during the season or the off-season are Ramon Hernandez, Chris Iannetta, Kurt Suzuki, Miguel Montero. Also from the list and highlighted below are A.J. Pierzynski and Mike Napoli.

 

A.J. Pierzynski was traded following his 4.5 WAR Age 26 season.

 

A.J. Pierzynski, Age 26

November 14, 2003: Traded by the Minnesota Twins with cash to the San Francisco Giants for Boof Bonser, Francisco Liriano and Joe Nathan.

 

Mike Napoli was traded twice in a 5 day span following a 2.0 WAR season with 2 years remaining on his contract.

 

Mike Napoli, Age 29, 2.0 years remaining

January 21, 2011: Traded by the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim with Juan Rivera to the Toronto Blue Jays for Vernon Wells.

January 25, 2011: Traded by the Toronto Blue Jays to the Texas Rangers for Frank Francisco.

[JohnBriggs12]

Somebody on a Tiger site made this proposal for Lucroy AND Smith

 

James McCann

Tyler Alexander

Steven Moya

Austin Kubitza

Jaire Labourt

 

Kubitza and Labourt are both struggling in A ball so of very little value. McCann is controllable and wasn't bad last year but I'd rather have d'Arnoud if I'm wanting a replacement for Lucroy in the deal. McCann looks like a marginal starter at best going forward. Moya's a nice power bat that's major league ready, but has defensive issues (who doesn't on the Brewers?). He just turned 23, so that's a plus also. He's also cut his strikeout rate down considerably in AAA this year. Alexander is a lefty starter drafted in 2nd round in 2015 out of TCU and is putting up nice numbers as a 21 year old in high A ball and definitely a prospect.

 

No way that package gets them Lucroy and Smith in my opinion. McCann, Alexander and Moya for Lucroy alone? At least worth discussion.

[Madhawk23]

Somebody on a Tiger site made this proposal for Lucroy AND Smith

 

James McCann

Tyler Alexander

Steven Moya

Austin Kubitza

Jaire Labourt

 

Kubitza and Labourt are both struggling in A ball so of very little value. McCann is controllable and wasn't bad last year but I'd rather have d'Arnoud if I'm wanting a replacement for Lucroy in the deal. McCann looks like a marginal starter at best going forward. Moya's a nice power bat that's major league ready, but has defensive issues (who doesn't on the Brewers?). He just turned 23, so that's a plus also. He's also cut his strikeout rate down considerably in AAA this year. Alexander is a lefty starter drafted in 2nd round in 2015 out of TCU and is putting up nice numbers as a 21 year old in high A ball and definitely a prospect.

 

No way that package gets them Lucroy and Smith in my opinion. McCann, Alexander and Moya for Lucroy alone? At least worth discussion.

 

 

Ha ha! That's comical. So, the Tigers (who have one of the worst farm systems in baseball) wouldn't have to give up any of their Top 6 prospects according to MLB.com (of which, none are even in the Top 100) in a deal for Lucroy. Once again, these opposing fans are being absolutely delusional. Honestly, The Tigers could offer up their Top 5 prospects for Lucroy and I'm not sure if I'd even be satisfied with that deal?

[UMBrewer]

Or they could trade Matt Manning couldnt they? I would rather have Manning than Jimenez. I dont think the Tigers could come up with enough to land him. It would have to be so watered down it wouldnt be worth the time to entertain.

With the new Trea Turner rule I believe they cannot until after the World Series.

 

Heck if we are going to take the "guys we should have drafted this year but didnt" approach, why not try a different sort of trade, but with the Marlins.

 

The Brewers send Lucroy and Smith to Miami and in return get J.T. Realmuto, Luis Castillo and Braxton Garret.

 

Marlins make a big upgrade at a premium position for the stretch run the Brewers get a catcher they can control for 4 more years and a lottery ticket and a really nice arm. Its not a big future move, but if Realmuto continues to improve as he has this year, they have a guy to flip when contention comes around again in 2020 or so.