center field

[logan82]

Davis has a .295 OBP this year. Why are some so worked up about him being traded? He's Mark Trumbo. Guys like that don't have a lot of trade value and just aren't very valuable players.

Some? How many actually think we should have held onto Davis?

[BallFour]

Santana showed enough after his August call up last year to get a chance to play everyday, too bad he got hurt and their is lackadaisical play questions. Something that has been discounted and a byproduct of trading Davis was moving Braun to left field where he is rated as a great defender compared to being a below average defender in right.

 

Nottingham is having a rough year but being 21 in AA, it is pretty understandable after not even getting a full season at either A or A+ ball.

 

If this is the worst trade David Stearns makes, I think we got a good one guys.

[Ennder]

Is Khris Davis going to turn into Stearns' Nelson Cruz? I kind of doubt it, but a franchise can't win every single trade.

 

Nelson Cruz was never a big deal imo. It took him years to be good, when he finally got good it was only at home in that park of theirs and at some point in there he started using PEDs. He only ever had 1 really good year for the Rangers and most of his major success was for another team after his service time was over.

[jerichoholicninja]

Davis has a .295 OBP this year. Why are some so worked up about him being traded? He's Mark Trumbo. Guys like that don't have a lot of trade value and just aren't very valuable players.

Some? How many actually think we should have held onto Davis?

 

I think Briggs is the only one that wanted to hold onto him. Everyone else is disappointed that it looks like Nottingham isn't going to stick at catcher, which is fair, and would have preferred to trade him at this deadline when he might have brought back more.

[jerichoholicninja]

Is Khris Davis going to turn into Stearns' Nelson Cruz? I kind of doubt it, but a franchise can't win every single trade.

 

Nelson Cruz was never a big deal imo. It took him years to be good, when he finally got good it was only at home in that park of theirs and at some point in there he started using PEDs. He only ever had 1 really good year for the Rangers and most of his major success was for another team after his service time was over.

 

Cruz has put up his 3rd and 4th highest single season OPS playing in Seattle. I don't think the park really made a difference.

[BallFour]

I don't see how he brings back more value when corner outfielders are a dime a dozen on the trade market usually at deadlines...especially guys with his mediocre skill set.

[MrTPlush]

Davis has a .295 OBP this year. Why are some so worked up about him being traded? He's Mark Trumbo. Guys like that don't have a lot of trade value and just aren't very valuable players.

Some? How many actually think we should have held onto Davis?

 

I think Briggs is the only one that wanted to hold onto him. Everyone else is disappointed that it looks like Nottingham isn't going to stick at catcher, which is fair, and would have preferred to trade him at this deadline when he might have brought back more.

 

I don't think it was wrong to trade him, but as it looks Nottingham is going to be a flop. Sorry but he is a massive long shot to stick at catcher and I doubt he hits to be good anywhere else. Trading Davis was fine, but there were big concerns about Nottingham and they have pretty much been validated.

 

I just don't think there was much of a choice with Davis. We had to open up a spot for Santana. If that was the best deal...well...fine.

[Ennder]

Is Khris Davis going to turn into Stearns' Nelson Cruz? I kind of doubt it, but a franchise can't win every single trade.

 

Nelson Cruz was never a big deal imo. It took him years to be good, when he finally got good it was only at home in that park of theirs and at some point in there he started using PEDs. He only ever had 1 really good year for the Rangers and most of his major success was for another team after his service time was over.

 

Cruz has put up his 3rd and 4th highest single season OPS playing in Seattle. I don't think the park really made a difference.

 

Neither season of which was ever going to be for the Brewers. Only the Ranger's years count as part of the trade.

[1992casey]

Santana showed enough after his August call up last year to get a chance to play everyday, too bad he got hurt and their is lackadaisical play questions.

 

It could very well be that what appeared to be lackadaisical play was actually injury-related. I think we have to give Domingo a mulligan.

[logan82]

I think Briggs is the only one that wanted to hold onto him. Everyone else is disappointed that it looks like Nottingham isn't going to stick at catcher, which is fair, and would have preferred to trade him at this deadline when he might have brought back more.

That is my recollection as well. Maybe Trwi7 meant to type one instead of some.

 

We wanted to make room for Santana who will probably turn out more valuable than Davis. Nottingham is a little disappointing this year but I would still do the deal. It would have been nice to get more for Davis but he was a player with some warts. He wasn't/isn't a star but a league average player. We were lucky to get much of anything for him in trade.

 

Something that has been discounted and a byproduct of trading Davis was moving Braun to left field where he is rated as a great defender compared to being a below average defender in right.

Braun has never been a great defender anywhere, ever. He is average at best in RF.

[Tbadder]

I agree that the Crew probably lost the Davis-Nottingham trade, but so be it. It was worth the shot. With a complete lack of prospects, at the time, at cather--he rolled the calculated dice. Good for him I say. He shows enough power, and is still young enough, to be valuable even if it's not at catcher. And without a first base candidate in sight Nottingham still may have a true future.

[Invader3K]

Is Khris Davis going to turn into Stearns' Nelson Cruz? I kind of doubt it, but a franchise can't win every single trade.

 

Nelson Cruz was never a big deal imo. It took him years to be good, when he finally got good it was only at home in that park of theirs and at some point in there he started using PEDs. He only ever had 1 really good year for the Rangers and most of his major success was for another team after his service time was over.

 

Note that I wasn't just talking about the performance of the respective players...I'm also talking about fans bringing these trades up as mistakes, years after the fact.

[Ennder]

Is Khris Davis going to turn into Stearns' Nelson Cruz? I kind of doubt it, but a franchise can't win every single trade.

 

Nelson Cruz was never a big deal imo. It took him years to be good, when he finally got good it was only at home in that park of theirs and at some point in there he started using PEDs. He only ever had 1 really good year for the Rangers and most of his major success was for another team after his service time was over.

 

Note that I wasn't just talking about the performance of the respective players...I'm also talking about fans bringing these trades up as mistakes, years after the fact.

 

Sure. But if that is the worst trade you can bring up about a GM you have had a very good run as a GM. That trade was not some sort of disaster like people always try to make it out to be.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Nottingham is 21 in AA - it's way too early to give up on his bat after what he did as a 20-yr old in several single A levels last season. He may not stick at catcher, but he could profile as a 1B. He's at least two more struggling seasons from even considering him a flopped prospect.

 

As for Davis, he hits HRs and gives a team nothing else of value, which has been brought up ad nauseum in this forum. Of the top 40 HR hitters in MLB this year, he's dead last in walks, 38th in OBP, and 33rd in OPS. For a guy who's tied for 6th in all of baseball for HR's, those other offensive numbers are terrible and profile a hitter that pitchers simply aren't afraid of facing despite his HR power.

[MrTPlush]

I don't think the Davis trade will haunt us unless he gets his 2014 doubles power, 2015 OBP% skills, and his 2016 power all put together.

 

If he does that, yah, Stearns will look pretty stupid. I'm not holding my breath, but I guess it could happen.

 

For the record Khris Davis isn't a one trick pony. He is hitting for an average AVG. One of the reasons he is valuable and Carter is worthless. If you can hit .250 and have serious power you will stay afloat and teams will want you for that power.

[Ennder]

His peripheral stats are so weird and erratic it is really hard to know what he is ever going to be.

[danzig6767]

I don't think the Davis trade will haunt us unless he gets his 2014 doubles power, 2015 OBP% skills, and his 2016 power all put together.

 

If he does that, yah, Stearns will look pretty stupid. I'm not holding my breath, but I guess it could happen.

 

For the record Khris Davis isn't a one trick pony. He is hitting for an average AVG. One of the reasons he is valuable and Carter is worthless. If you can hit .250 and have serious power you will stay afloat and teams will want you for that power.

Davis and his walk rate is hard for me to figure out.

 

Throughout the minors he walked at an above average rate. Since he got into the big leagues though, his walk rate goes up and down quite a bit from year to year. A prime example are this year and last year. In roughly the same number of at bats, last year Davis took 44 walks last year and only 17 this year.

 

Granted while not always the case, most hitters who spent awhile in the minors and walked at a high rate, they also draw walks well in the majors. Davis though has been quite erratic in that regard since called up to the big leagues. For three straight years he's managed to hit for a nearly identical batting average (.244-.251) and he is a big time power threat, but for some reason he can't consistently draw walks like he showed in the minors and last year with the Brewers.

[monty57]

How did this turn into a Davis thread? Davis is a DH forced to play LF because the Brewers are in the NL. He was traded because we have Braun and Santana in the other corners and he was the odd man out. It sucks that Santana has been hurt, but that happens, and could not have been predicted prior to the season. The only one of those three that should even be in a CF discussion is Santana, as he was put there last year, but that was under Melvin who really didn't care about defense. One of the first things Stearns said when he took the job was that Santana would not be playing CF, tipping his hand that to Stearns defense is very important.

 

With Santana and Braun the corners are covered, so back to CF. The real question is when our prospects will be ready, as Brinson is now the odds-on favorite to take over CF long term, and Phillips could cause a move to be made if he's looking like a good option in the future. Until then, we have playing time available to whoever grabs it. I'm hopeful more PAs will go to Broxton, as he could be a decent player, and could at least be a valuable 4th/5th OF for the foreseeable future. As others have suggested, I hope the only reason Kirk N. is seeing playing time at this point is in hopes of an August trade.

[logan82]

How did this turn into a Davis thread?

Conversations flow into different and sometimes more interesting topics.

[danzig6767]

I'm hopeful more PAs will go to Broxton, as he could be a decent player, and could at least be a valuable 4th/5th OF for the foreseeable future. As others have suggested, I hope the only reason Kirk N. is seeing playing time at this point is in hopes of an August trade.

I wish that was Counsell's thinking with Nieuwenhuis and Broxton, but instead it sure seems to me that Craig is worrying to much about trying to eek out every meaningless win possible vs going full aboard with this being a rebuilding year. So that's why he mostly platoons those two vs just letting Broxton play everyday in CF to see how he'd perform with consistent playing time.

 

It's not like teams are going to be lining up to trade for Nieuwenhuis. If someone wanted him, they could have traded for him already. He's a solid 4th-5th OF type given he can handle all three OF positions defensively, draw walks well, and hit a homer here and there, but most contenders already have backup outfielders and even if one would prefer a slight upgrade, they aren't going to give up much for one.

 

So let Broxton play everyday. This is annoying me big time.

[pacopete4]

It couldn't be that he's trying his hardest to our players in positions to success right? You mention trying to win games, what manager doesnt? His job is based on winning.

[trwi7]

It couldn't be that he's trying his hardest to our players in positions to success right? You mention trying to win games, what manager doesnt? His job is based on winning.

 

You can try to win while not particularly caring if you do win and in the meantime give players with a potential future with the team the majority of the playing time over veteran fillers, which likely leads to more losses but also helps you evaluate for the future.

[sveumrules]

Broxton has started 9 of 12 games since getting called back up on July 26 & is hitting 387/500/742 over that span. While I don't think he'll continue to hit like 1927 vintage Lou Gehrig I see no reason not to give Keon another 50 starts in CF the rest of the way.

[pacopete4]

It couldn't be that he's trying his hardest to our players in positions to success right? You mention trying to win games, what manager doesnt? His job is based on winning.

 

You can try to win while not particularly caring if you do win and in the meantime give players with a potential future with the team the majority of the playing time over veteran fillers, which likely leads to more losses but also helps you evaluate for the future.

 

 

Sorry man. This isn't tee ball. Counsell doesn't get to being a manager of an MLB club with the thought process of not caring about winning. To be honest you could say they play Broxton perfect. They gave him the start of the season, he sucked. Now they bring him up after an adjustment and are putting him out there in a position to succeed. So far it's working. And yet, we gripe.

[Sixto]

It couldn't be that he's trying his hardest to our players in positions to success right? You mention trying to win games, what manager doesnt? His job is based on winning.

 

You can try to win while not particularly caring if you do win and in the meantime give players with a potential future with the team the majority of the playing time over veteran fillers, which likely leads to more losses but also helps you evaluate for the future.

 

I doubt that's a trait that Counsell has or he would have never carved out the career he had. I also highly doubt that's a trait you acquire just because you become coach.

Every time someone talks about tanking the first thing I think of is they have never played organized sports. Or recreational sports for that matter.