center field

[Boomer5]

By the way, Khris Davis in the last calendar year:. 46 HR 112 RBI. Old time stats to be sure, but impressive nonetheless. Certainly worth more than the return Brewers got.

 

Way more. Stearns sold way way way low on Davis. Simply put Nottingham isn't going to be a good catcher if he stays there at all and his bat isn't MLB 1st base caliber.

 

Actually if you look at Segura in over 400 pa, he sold low on him too. Ditto KRod.

 

Back to CF, we really don't have one on the roster until we get down to Phillips. Everyone else is at best a stop gap.

[MrTPlush]

By the way, Khris Davis in the last calendar year:. 46 HR 112 RBI. Old time stats to be sure, but impressive nonetheless. Certainly worth more than the return Brewers got.

 

Way more. Stearns sold way way way low on Davis. Simply put Nottingham isn't going to be a good catcher if he stays there at all and his bat isn't MLB 1st base caliber.

 

Actually if you look at Segura in over 400 pa, he sold low on him too. Ditto KRod.

 

Back to CF, we really don't have one on the roster until we get down to Phillips. Everyone else is at best a stop gap.

 

Yah I think they probably sold low on Davis. Only because Nottingham is a dumpster fire in the field.

 

Segura I just don't think he would have ever turned it around here and still think he is playing over his head. We got Isan Diaz too so I will let it slide.

 

K-Rod was a bit harder to predict. Easy to look back now that we know the barren wasteland for relievers looks like. However we never got good value for K-Rod in all the trades of him so why would this time be any different? We dropped the ball in my opinion though.

 

To say the least Stearns has been pretty questionable trading MLB assets so far.

[jerichoholicninja]

By the way, Khris Davis in the last calendar year:. 46 HR 112 RBI. Old time stats to be sure, but impressive nonetheless. Certainly worth more than the return Brewers got.

 

Way more. Stearns sold way way way low on Davis. Simply put Nottingham isn't going to be a good catcher if he stays there at all and his bat isn't MLB 1st base caliber.

 

Actually if you look at Segura in over 400 pa, he sold low on him too. Ditto KRod.

 

Back to CF, we really don't have one on the roster until we get down to Phillips. Everyone else is at best a stop gap.

 

Yah I think they probably sold low on Davis. Only because Nottingham is a dumpster fire in the field.

 

Segura I just don't think he would have ever turned it around here and still think he is playing over his head. We got Isan Diaz too so I will let it slide.

 

K-Rod was a bit harder to predict. Easy to look back now that we know the barren wasteland for relievers looks like. However we never got good value for K-Rod in all the trades of him so why would this time be any different? We dropped the ball in my opinion though.

 

To say the least Stearns has been pretty questionable trading MLB assets so far.

 

I disagree Stearns sold low on everyone but KRod. He's been a top of the line reliever for quite a few seasons. It just seemed no one ever wanted to give anything of value up for him. I've constantly said it had nothing to do with his legal issues but maybe it did because he's been as steady as they come for a bullpen arm.

[reillymcshane]

I think we should keep this thread on the topic - center field. If someone wants to start a different thread about Khris Davis or Nottingham or Stearns' trades, great, but let's not hijack things.

 

Thank you.

[Crash2303]

Just something cool I like thinking about, our arguable top five OF prospects, one at each level, all CFers. talk about literally filling the system top to bottom:

AAA Brinson

AA Phillips

A+ Ray

A Harrison

R+ Clark

 

and that's not including all the other guys like Taylor, Reed, Liriano, Wren, Segovia, Stokes, Broxton, Davis etc. I love our stacked system!

[3and2Fastball]

I think it is Brinson's job for 5.5-6 years once he's at the MLB level. Kid looks like the real deal to me

[pacopete4]

The main thing Brinson may due is be a complete stud and allow a guy like Phillips not to be rushed.

[Devinep]

Brinson was struggling at AA and there's no need to rush him to the majors either. Platoon Wren/Broxton until late April of next year, assuming he's proven he's ready then.

 

But with Brinson being the likely future CF, I wonder when Ray and Phillips start playing some corner OF.

[JohnBriggs12]

Just something cool I like thinking about, our arguable top five OF prospects, one at each level, all CFers. talk about literally filling the system top to bottom:

AAA Brinson

AA Phillips

A+ Ray

A Harrison

R+ Clark

 

and that's not including all the other guys like Taylor, Reed, Liriano, Wren, Segovia, Stokes, Broxton, Davis etc. I love our stacked system!

 

Sure looks fine, but really is Miller Park a venue where you sacrifice power to have athletic OF in all 3 positions? I never though MP placed a premium on gap closing OF. Not that there is not power potential in that group, but I don't see a stud power guy in that group. It makes sense in Pittsburgh and maybe St. Louis but Miller Park was built for the power game.

 

Will be interesting to see what kind of value in any they can get for the likes of Broxton, Flores etc. Can't see them staying around blocking.

[monty57]

The main thing Brinson may due is be a complete stud and allow a guy like Phillips not to be rushed.

 

The main thing Brinson can do is be a complete stud, helping the Brewers win games. A secondary benefit to this is that he could allow us to take some time with other OF prospects like Phillips.

 

I think/hope that Brinson will be ready at the start of next season. He may get the "Bryant treatment" and be held down until cutoff, but he should be the CF of the future starting in 2017. If he comes close to living up to his potential, we will be set in CF. Then, if Santana can stay healthy, we could have a decent group of OF, with a decent group of OF prospects coming through the ranks. This gives us a lot of options going forward, which is a good thing.

[JohnBriggs12]

"if Santana can stay healthy, we could have a decent group of OF"

 

You really think Santana who's proven nothing at the major league level other than he strikes out a lot and is injury prone and will have missed almost all of 2016, is going to supplant Perez at the beginning of 2017, barring a 2 month collapse by Perez or a trade of Villar opening up 3B for Perez?

 

I'm guessing Santana starts 2017 in AAA.

[Boomer5]

Just something cool I like thinking about, our arguable top five OF prospects, one at each level, all CFers. talk about literally filling the system top to bottom:

AAA Brinson

AA Phillips

A+ Ray

A Harrison

R+ Clark

 

and that's not including all the other guys like Taylor, Reed, Liriano, Wren, Segovia, Stokes, Broxton, Davis etc. I love our stacked system!

 

Sure looks fine, but really is Miller Park a venue where you sacrifice power to have athletic OF in all 3 positions? I never though MP placed a premium on gap closing OF. Not that there is not power potential in that group, but I don't see a stud power guy in that group. It makes sense in Pittsburgh and maybe St. Louis but Miller Park was built for the power game.

 

I am glad someone else noticed this. The Milwaukee Brewers identity on offense when they were good has always been a power hitting group that scored a lot of runs. What they always lacked finding was pitching.

 

I was kind of hoping we kept the power hitting model and beefed up our pitching scouting and development of impact pitching instead of going to stolen bases and athletic guys who while that sounds good on paper, hasnt typically been a consistently successful model since the days of Whitey Herzog. I actually do like stolen bases far more than the analytics guys, but not at the expense of power.

 

As for CF, it is Brinson as the guy. I dont think that's even in debate because while we have other guys, no one but Phillips is a real CF and he is struggling in AA. Ray and Clark arent CF's, and arent hitting much anyhow so far, and even if they do turn it around at the plate, they certainly wont be better defenders than Brinson or Phillips.

[igor67]

Mostly because there are so many candidates I will take the field and not Brinson as the CFer of the future.

[monty57]

"if Santana can stay healthy, we could have a decent group of OF"

 

You really think Santana who's proven nothing at the major league level other than he strikes out a lot and is injury prone and will have missed almost all of 2016, is going to supplant Perez at the beginning of 2017, barring a 2 month collapse by Perez or a trade of Villar opening up 3B for Perez?

 

I'm guessing Santana starts 2017 in AAA.

 

Yes, I do. Perez has a career minor league line of .264/.305/.359/.664. He's had a nice run this season in his 203 AB (about 1/3 of a season). It's probably about as good as we can hope to get out of him in any given 1/3 of a season. His .291/.316/.458/.774 has brought his career MLB numbers all the way up to .256/.276/.364/.640. He's 25, so he could level out to a low-.700's OPS guy for his career. That's fine as a super-utility, but not exactly what you're looking for in a corner OF.

 

Santana hasn't played up to expectations, but even playing hurt he's put up a line of .234/.347/.391/.737 in 128 AB. His career minor league numbers are .282/.373/.485/.858, so while he's been able to keep a decent OBP this year, I think he'll show more power than he has. He's likely to put up an OPS over .100 points higher than Perez, with more power and a much higher OBP. Plus, he turns 24 today (Happy birthday!), so he's 1.5 years younger than Perez.

 

I'm glad Perez is putting together a decent season, and he's solidified his place on the Brewer 25-man roster, but no way should he block Santana. Santana could have the value of a Corey Hart type player. Perez's main value is that he can back up a lot of positions and can hold his ground when he's forced into a starting role due to injuries.

[jerichoholicninja]

"if Santana can stay healthy, we could have a decent group of OF"

 

You really think Santana who's proven nothing at the major league level other than he strikes out a lot and is injury prone and will have missed almost all of 2016, is going to supplant Perez at the beginning of 2017, barring a 2 month collapse by Perez or a trade of Villar opening up 3B for Perez?

 

I'm guessing Santana starts 2017 in AAA.

 

How do Santana's numbers compare to Khris Davis?

[logan82]

"if Santana can stay healthy, we could have a decent group of OF"

 

You really think Santana who's proven nothing at the major league level other than he strikes out a lot and is injury prone and will have missed almost all of 2016, is going to supplant Perez at the beginning of 2017, barring a 2 month collapse by Perez or a trade of Villar opening up 3B for Perez?

 

I'm guessing Santana starts 2017 in AAA.

Wow, dude. That's really out there even for you. Of course Santana will be in RF over Perez. There's nothing to supplant, it's Santana's position and Perez is just filling in.

[tmwiese55]

Right, even Santana's 'poor performance' has 30 points higher obp and is there anyone here that doesn't think he'd have double digit HRs if he'd play all year. Perez is a great utility guy but no one is getting pushed out for him as of now. The more likely scenario would be Scooter being gone and Perez going to 3B and Villar to 2B vs turning Perez into full time OF.

[TheCrew07]

Sure looks fine, but really is Miller Park a venue where you sacrifice power to have athletic OF in all 3 positions?

 

Great defense is always worthwhile. If you have 3 guys that combine to hit 60 HRs, does it really matter if they are all CFs? Why does one have to hit 30, another 20, and the CF 10?

[homer]

I thought Miller Park was pretty neutral in terms of park factor? Used to be a big homer dome but not as much recently. At least that's what I thought.

[reillymcshane]

I thought Miller Park was pretty neutral in terms of park factor? Used to be a big homer dome but not as much recently. At least that's what I thought.

Miller Park is the 3rd most HR friendly park according the ESPN Park Factors:

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor

 

It's slightly above average for runs scored, but the HR thing is still quite high.

[Boomer5]

Sure looks fine, but really is Miller Park a venue where you sacrifice power to have athletic OF in all 3 positions?

 

Great defense is always worthwhile. If you have 3 guys that combine to hit 60 HRs, does it really matter if they are all CFs? Why does one have to hit 30, another 20, and the CF 10?

 

I dont disagree at all, but our OF profile in our acquisitions under Stearns prior to Brinson (who apparently wasnt the guy Stearns wanted) wasnt for 20 HR guys.

[pacopete4]

I thought Miller Park was pretty neutral in terms of park factor? Used to be a big homer dome but not as much recently. At least that's what I thought.

Miller Park is the 3rd most HR friendly park according the ESPN Park Factors:

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor

 

It's slightly above average for runs scored, but the HR thing is still quite high.

 

 

I would think our terrible pitching might have something more to that as well.

[Boomer5]

"if Santana can stay healthy, we could have a decent group of OF"

 

You really think Santana who's proven nothing at the major league level other than he strikes out a lot and is injury prone and will have missed almost all of 2016, is going to supplant Perez at the beginning of 2017, barring a 2 month collapse by Perez or a trade of Villar opening up 3B for Perez?

 

I'm guessing Santana starts 2017 in AAA.

 

How do Santana's numbers compare to Khris Davis?

 

Briggs and I will never get over giving up Khris Davis with 4 years of team control for what they got back, this I admit. Im speaking for Briggs, but Im comfortable in my position.

 

Well, at least we have Ramon Flores to pick up the run production slack.

[MKE81]

"if Santana can stay healthy, we could have a decent group of OF"

 

You really think Santana who's proven nothing at the major league level other than he strikes out a lot and is injury prone and will have missed almost all of 2016, is going to supplant Perez at the beginning of 2017, barring a 2 month collapse by Perez or a trade of Villar opening up 3B for Perez?

 

I'm guessing Santana starts 2017 in AAA.

 

How do Santana's numbers compare to Khris Davis?

 

Briggs and I will never get over giving up Khris Davis with 4 years of team control for what they got back, this I admit. Im speaking for Briggs, but Im comfortable in my position.

 

Well, at least we have Ramon Flores to pick up the run production slack.

 

Actually, Chris Carter was there to pick up the HR and run production from Davis and he's done just that. They're on pace for basically the same number of ABs and Carter will post a 218/305/792, 31 doubles, 38HR, 93rbi, 67bb, 209K while Davis will post 254/296/809, 21 doubles, 41HR, 104rbi, 26bb, 158K while being utterly useless in the field. Carter actually contributes defensively.

 

If given the same ABs as Davis is on pace for then Santana, out of the leadoff spot, would post a 234/347/737, 35 doubles, 18HR, 57rbi, 92bb, 228K as a 23yr old while also being a massive upgrade over Davis in the OF. But hey, no potential anybody should see in that.

 

If Davis was given same amount of ABs last year as he is on pace for this year he would have hit 39HR. Same production. There's a reason there's no market for him in the off-season even. He can't play the field so half of MLB has no use for him. He's really killing it with that 296 OBP. Nobody cares if he's 40HR when you literally bring nothing else to the table. You're not going to all of a sudden get a massive haul for him after this season. Nottingham is 21yrs in AA performing well half the season and junk the other half. Again, HE'S 21. And he was #66 on BP's Top 100 list coming in. Yeah, awful trade. Lets just call it what it is right now and not when Nottingham gets to the MLB level by end of 2018 or 2019

[Boomer5]

"if Santana can stay healthy, we could have a decent group of OF"

 

You really think Santana who's proven nothing at the major league level other than he strikes out a lot and is injury prone and will have missed almost all of 2016, is going to supplant Perez at the beginning of 2017, barring a 2 month collapse by Perez or a trade of Villar opening up 3B for Perez?

 

I'm guessing Santana starts 2017 in AAA.

 

How do Santana's numbers compare to Khris Davis?

 

Briggs and I will never get over giving up Khris Davis with 4 years of team control for what they got back, this I admit. Im speaking for Briggs, but Im comfortable in my position.

 

Well, at least we have Ramon Flores to pick up the run production slack.

 

Actually, Chris Carter was there to pick up the HR and run production from Davis and he's done just that. They're on pace for basically the same number of ABs and Carter will post a 218/305/792, 31 doubles, 38HR, 93rbi, 67bb, 209K while Davis will post 254/296/809, 21 doubles, 41HR, 104rbi, 26bb, 158K while being utterly useless in the field. Carter actually contributes defensively.

 

If given the same ABs as Davis is on pace for then Santana, out of the leadoff spot, would post a 234/347/737, 35 doubles, 18HR, 57rbi, 92bb, 228K as a 23yr old while also being a massive upgrade over Davis in the OF. But hey, no potential anybody should see in that.

 

If Davis was given same amount of ABs last year as he is on pace for this year he would have hit 39HR. Same production. There's a reason there's no market for him in the off-season even. He can't play the field so half of MLB has no use for him. He's really killing it with that 296 OBP. Nobody cares if he's 40HR when you literally bring nothing else to the table. You're not going to all of a sudden get a massive haul for him after this season. Nottingham is 21yrs in AA performing well half the season and junk the other half. Again, HE'S 21. And he was #66 on BP's Top 100 list coming in. Yeah, awful trade. Lets just call it what it is right now and not when Nottingham gets to the MLB level by end of 2018 or 2019

 

According to Fangraphs, Carter is a 0.6 WAR player and Flores (ultimately the guy who replaced Davis' AB's) is a -1.4 WAR player.

 

Davis with all of his flaws is a 1.3 WAR player. No, he was not replaced, not that it terribly matters this year. The drop from Davis to Flores is 2.7, which is actually the same as having an extra Ryan Braun on the team (2.4 WAR)

 

But back to 1B Chris Carter, he will make $2.5M this year. Davis will make $524,500 this year.

 

That is not good asset management anyway you look at it.

 

For the record I do like what Carter has brought to the table for $2.5M but he isn't a replacement for an OF at all. I could certainly argue that Stearns won the 1B switch from Lind to Carter plus Peralta.

 

Back on topic, I do like that we have gone to a guy like a Brinson for our CF spot as he is legitimate 5 tool guy vs our Flores/wavier brigade guys so it does look like our OF talent is on the upswing in a big way. Im less optimistic on Clark and Ray as I don't see either as a CF, and with Brinson and Phillips ahead of them, I dont think there is chance they play CF in Milwaukee baring injury.