Milwaukee Bucks 2016 - 2017

[patrickgpe]

That's not true, they signed Giannis to an extension, drafted thon and Malcom, snell for MCW was a good trade.you can be upset over the notching of the GM thing and rumors of giving rose huge money is concerning, but this isn't Brooklyn bad like you are insinuating

[Baldkin]

That's not true, they signed Giannis to an extension, drafted thon and Malcom, snell for MCW was a good trade.you can be upset over the notching of the GM thing and rumors of giving rose huge money is concerning, but this isn't Brooklyn bad like you are insinuating

 

None of those things are needle movers. They stupidly spent all their cap space last off season on non needle movers -- when this off season those types of guys are going for 2/3s as much. They didn't give Giannis the 5 year deal, instead only gave him 4 (that's a screw up), traded a first and a second for Grievous Vasquez. Chose MCW over a first round pick.

 

They extended Snell before letting him get an offer sheet, and now no one out there has cap space so RFA's are getting tiny offer sheets, if they are getting any at all.

 

Making deals to fix their previous screw ups doesn't mean the previous screw ups didn't hurt.

[patrickgpe]

there is alot here to say but

1) maybe giannis would only sign for 4 years, who knows?

2) the vasquez trade was for a 2015 second, and a conditional 2017 1st, that was never sent. i said at the time it was a dumb, but look at the back half of the 2015 draft, there ended up being nothing there. the pick was used for Norman Powell, who did little (besides the 1st round of the playoffs against the bucks this past season)

3) i didn't know about the MCW or 1st round pick, the 1st round pick would have been nice, but they still turned MCW into Snell which is a nice player (albeit overpaid). was it for philly's 2015 1st, i doubt it.

4) i have criticized (and will every time) not letting restricted FA's sign offer sheets to determine the market.

 

the bucks cap situation is a mess, because of bad free agent signings. now it appears that they will have to give away picks and young players to get under the cap, which sucks. to say though that there hasn't been any good basketball moves is being overly critical though IMO

[Baldkin]

The pick for MCW is the Lakers pick, which was top 5 protected which is now unprotected next season.

 

The Vasquez trade, the 2nd round pick ended up being Norman Powell. The first rounder was most definitely traded, it was the Clippers pick this year, 23rd overall. Toronto selected OG Anunoby.

[GAME05]

The Lakers pick would be nice to have in hindsight, but MCW was supposed to be that last needed piece for a developing team, plus we would have ended up waiting three years for that Lakers pick to come to fruition. And at the time there was a reasonable thought that the Lakers would have been signing a lot of big-time FAs turning the pick into a mid- to late-1st variety.

[Baldkin]

The Lakers pick would be nice to have in hindsight, but MCW was supposed to be that last needed piece for a developing team, plus we would have ended up waiting three years for that Lakers pick to come to fruition. And at the time there was a reasonable thought that the Lakers would have been signing a lot of big-time FAs turning the pick into a mid- to late-1st variety.

 

Yep. And considering the current state of the franchise -- a capped out 42 win team, who lucked into a 22 year old superstar -- all of those choices look even WORSE than they did at the time.

[CheezWizHed]

The Lakers pick would be nice to have in hindsight, but MCW was supposed to be that last needed piece for a developing team, plus we would have ended up waiting three years for that Lakers pick to come to fruition. And at the time there was a reasonable thought that the Lakers would have been signing a lot of big-time FAs turning the pick into a mid- to late-1st variety.

 

Yep. And considering the current state of the franchise -- a capped out 42 win team, who lucked into a 22 year old superstar -- all of those choices look even WORSE than they did at the time.

 

Luck...good drafting... I think we have a bit more than that. There are a lot of good pieces in place right now. I guess we will find out what the 1st round pick would've been next year, but I won't lose sleep over it.

[superfly]

The Lakers pick would be nice to have in hindsight, but MCW was supposed to be that last needed piece for a developing team, plus we would have ended up waiting three years for that Lakers pick to come to fruition. And at the time there was a reasonable thought that the Lakers would have been signing a lot of big-time FAs turning the pick into a mid- to late-1st variety.

 

Yep. And considering the current state of the franchise -- a capped out 42 win team, who lucked into a 22 year old superstar -- all of those choices look even WORSE than they did at the time.

 

"Luck" ? Free agency is one thing but you're foolish if you think it's all luck with Giannis and Thon (and Brogdon). ALL THREE of those picks were panned pretty hard to extremely hard by the supposed basketball brains when they happened, now these same folks are falling over one another to fawn at the brilliance. The Bucks scouting leaders are very good.

 

I am unimpressed with cap management just as you are, but Giannis is 22, Thon is ~20, Brogdon is 24, Middleton is 25, and Parker is 22. There is plenty of room for all 5 of them to grow yet, so we don't necessarily NEED to sign people that make a huge impact. We need to get deeper as a team, not more top heavy.

[Boomer5]

We need another star. Depth is a dime a dozen. Especially since cap space is at such a premium, in 2018 there will be bargains galore like there is now, IF the Bucks manage their cap better.

 

I do think Middleton will have an excellent year but will Parker come back strong and will Thon get to the next level? He was horrible last night which was surprising to see.

[patrickgpe]

We need another star. Depth is a dime a dozen. Especially since cap space is at such a premium, in 2018 there will be bargains galore like there is now, IF the Bucks manage their cap better.

 

I do think Middleton will have an excellent year but will Parker come back strong and will Thon get to the next level? He was horrible last night which was surprising to see.

they do, they really need to draft well and now with a more competitive team, somehow do it in the middle to back of the draft, which is very hard in the NBA. its why the GM fiasco is so concerning.

 

By the way, did anyone else see Thornwell's NBA SL debut last night, 26 points. him and McCaw would either / both look really good in bucks uniforms. I hate giving away picks for cash.

[nate82]

We need another star. Depth is a dime a dozen. Especially since cap space is at such a premium, in 2018 there will be bargains galore like there is now, IF the Bucks manage their cap better.

 

You can't be any further from the truth than what you just said. The cap increased so much last year and that is why so many players got contracts more than what they should have. The cap was supposed to increase higher than it did this year and that is why teams are struggling to keep and sign players. There will not be bargains galore in 2018 not sure what you are basing this off of as the cap is supposed to increase again in 2018 though not as much as it did in the summer of 2016. Plus Tim Hardaway Jr. just signed a 4-year $71m deal. If Tim Hardaway Jr. is getting a 4-year $71m deal this year there is no way there is going to be bargains galore next summer when the cap increases again.

[Boomer5]

We need another star. Depth is a dime a dozen. Especially since cap space is at such a premium, in 2018 there will be bargains galore like there is now, IF the Bucks manage their cap better.

 

You can't be any further from the truth than what you just said. The cap increased so much last year and that is why so many players got contracts more than what they should have. The cap was supposed to increase higher than it did this year and that is why teams are struggling to keep and sign players. There will not be bargains galore in 2018 not sure what you are basing this off of as the cap is supposed to increase again in 2018 though not as much as it did in the summer of 2016. Plus Tim Hardaway Jr. just signed a 4-year $71m deal. If Tim Hardaway Jr. is getting a 4-year $71m deal this year there is no way there is going to be bargains galore next summer when the cap increases again.

 

You need to look at the FA signings this past week before you make that attack on my post. Teams are capped out and now useful rotation types are going for $5M or so.

 

Yes Hardaway gets $71M - From the Knicks who are somehow worse run than the Bucks.

 

Cap space is far more important that rushing to sign Delly, Telly, and now Snell for 8 digits per year. That's just silly cap management.

[Boomer5]

We need another star. Depth is a dime a dozen. Especially since cap space is at such a premium, in 2018 there will be bargains galore like there is now, IF the Bucks manage their cap better.

 

I do think Middleton will have an excellent year but will Parker come back strong and will Thon get to the next level? He was horrible last night which was surprising to see.

they do, they really need to draft well and now with a more competitive team, somehow do it in the middle to back of the draft, which is very hard in the NBA. its why the GM fiasco is so concerning.

 

By the way, did anyone else see Thornwell's NBA SL debut last night, 26 points. him and McCaw would either / both look really good in bucks uniforms. I hate giving away picks for cash.

 

It drives me nuts that a team with cap problems and billionaires for owners are selling draft picks. Those guys are super cheap rotation types. Just horrible horrible management.

 

Business guys yes, basketball guys no.

[patrickgpe]

You can't be any further from the truth than what you just said. The cap increased so much last year and that is why so many players got contracts more than what they should have. The cap was supposed to increase higher than it did this year and that is why teams are struggling to keep and sign players. There will not be bargains galore in 2018 not sure what you are basing this off of as the cap is supposed to increase again in 2018 though not as much as it did in the summer of 2016. Plus Tim Hardaway Jr. just signed a 4-year $71m deal. If Tim Hardaway Jr. is getting a 4-year $71m deal this year there is no way there is going to be bargains galore next summer when the cap increases again

 

totally agree, the cap is just under 100MM, but when marginal players like Snell is getting 12MM and hardaway is getting 17, the large cap doesn't really matter. the bucks are in cap trouble because of bad free agent signings made the last 2 off seasons, mostly because they anticipated the increased cap due to TV revenue. the best way to stay competitive is to draft well and not overpay for free agents, no matter how large the salary cap is.

[Jenkins5]

Mirza Delly Henson & Snell all over 11 million a year.... that's the biggest issue. Snell is prob most worth it out of 4

[trwi7]

snell for MCW was a good trade.

 

If you completely ignore how much they botched the original deal.

[Jenkins5]

Mirza Delly Henson & Snell all over 11 million a year.... that's the biggest issue. Snell is prob most worth it out of 4

[brwrsfan]

It's hard to see a solution either. Nobody is going to really want Mirza, Delly or Henson with those contracts unless you throw in draft picks, which would be a mistake I think. It would be even worse if we hadn't managed to amazingly dump Plumlee last year.

 

Maybe we can swing another lucky trade like that but we may be stuck for awhile, at least until they get to the one year expiring contract stage.

[GAME05]

.....and there's no real point in dumping Mirza/Delly/Henson along with draft picks unless there were somebody the team was targeting in free agency. And Rose sure shouldn't be it.

 

I'm not much invested in late-round draft picks, but there's no point in trading away bad money to add on a bad contract. You just don't gain anything.

[homer]

Draft picks have looked good in summer league....as has Vaughn. Thing about Vaughn is that he's still really young. Maybe there's hope although I'm not gonna hold my breath.

[OnTheBlack]

Draft picks have looked good in summer league....as has Vaughn. Thing about Vaughn is that he's still really young. Maybe there's hope although I'm not gonna hold my breath.

 

Yeah, I was a little surprised. I knew he was young, but you look at the roster and unless I'm mistaken, he was the 2nd youngest behind only Thon Maker. I wouldn't hold my breath either, but just because so many of our young guys have come in and developed right away doesn't mean it won't take 3 or 4 years for a guy like Vaughn to develop.

[OnTheBlack]

I guess I don't see the Bucks' ownership group as such a mess as others do. Every owner meddles, but at least with our group if we end up with a Herb Kohl governor-owner, at least we get a new perspective after five years.

 

They haven't done anything right on the basketball side, haven't made any difference making moves, since taking over the team.

 

They all might meddle, but the Bucks owners clearly are not good at it at all.

 

They hired what looks to be the perfect coach for this team...despite the fact that it looked like an awful move at the time. They drafted THEE freak..Thon Maker, the rookie of the year. They traded MCW for Snell. The money spent last year was stupid, but they were hardly the exception. Not an excuse, but the market was reset and it was just a lucky time for some players to be FA's. Someone mentioned trading for one of the Celts young guys(turned out to be Bradley)...but I can't imagine Boston would have been real interested in helping to hand us a key contributor just so they could clear cap space.

 

Now you can obviously come back and list of dumb things they've done, but saying they've done nothing right is over the top.

 

I do wish they would have just given Giannis the 5 year deal...but for the next 4 years I'm gonna just hope that he means what he keeps saying...1-He wants to be the best ever--something that is obvious from how he's developed his body to how he plays the game and, 2-He wants to play his entire career in Milwaukee. I think the one thing we do have going for us is his family moved here and he great up here.

 

Oh, one more thing real quick, saying they were lucky to get Giannis at 15...I don't buy that just like I don't buy the Packers were lucky with Rodgers or the Cards were lucky with Pujos. When everyone else passes on a generational type talent and you draft him...you did something good. Not something that should be dismissed as luck. Just like I'll give the Mavs credit for picking Dirk(though we obviously technically did, he was only going to play because of Nelson).

 

 

But otherwise, interesting read...I'm obviously late to the conversation, but I enjoyed reading the different opinions.

[Baldkin]

If you think Kidd is a good coach, that's a non-starter with me.

They didn't draft Giannis. Giannis was drafted and the owners were gifted the #2 overall pick.

 

The fact that I can come back with an incredibly long list of stupidly horrible moves that this new ownership group has made since taking over and you listed 2 things that are... well, not spectacular and they were both in last year's draft, that gives me no faith in this group moving forward.

[FVBrewerFan]

Draft picks have looked good in summer league....as has Vaughn. Thing about Vaughn is that he's still really young. Maybe there's hope although I'm not gonna hold my breath.

 

Vaughn is young, but it's also his third year in the league. There is hope, there's just something about his game I don't like.

 

More encourage by Wilson, was not happy with that pick at all on draft night. But he showed he can shoot better than I thought, seems pretty scrappy on the boards. Bronson looked like a 50 year old man out there.

[tmwiese55]

If you think Kidd is a good coach, that's a non-starter with me.

They didn't draft Giannis. Giannis was drafted and the owners were gifted the #2 overall pick.

 

The fact that I can come back with an incredibly long list of stupidly horrible moves that this new ownership group has made since taking over and you listed 2 things that are... well, not spectacular and they were both in last year's draft, that gives me no faith in this group moving forward.

 

Right, they fell *** backwards into a legit 22 yr old superstar. If it wasn't for Giannis becoming way better than anyone could have possibly imagined this team would still be one of the biggest joke franchises in the league.

 

Edit: Please stop avoiding the swearing filter - CWH