Villar Cherry-Picking 3rd

[jerichoholicninja]

In terms of in-game managing and such, I think Roenicke was even worse than Macha.

 

They don't get much worse than Ron. Although Yost was/is pretty bad and did his best to prevent the Royals from winning the wild card game two years ago.

[MrTPlush]

My favorite Macha moment was Manny Parra was pitching in a game where the Brewers were up around 6-7 runs late in the game and he walked back to back batters, along with falling behind the next hitter.

 

So Macha comes out to the mound instead of the pitching coach and as usual, the infielders also start walking towards the mound. Macha waves off all of the infielders, points at the scoreboard, and then proceeds to light up Parra for not throwing strikes.

 

That's great I must have missed that game. I knew everyone hated Macha because he never spoke up for the players. When a player was freaking out he just stood in the dugout corner.

[jerichoholicninja]

My favorite Macha moment was Manny Parra was pitching in a game where the Brewers were up around 6-7 runs late in the game and he walked back to back batters, along with falling behind the next hitter.

 

So Macha comes out to the mound instead of the pitching coach and as usual, the infielders also start walking towards the mound. Macha waves off all of the infielders, points at the scoreboard, and then proceeds to light up Parra for not throwing strikes.

 

That's great I must have missed that game. I knew everyone hated Macha because he never spoke up for the players. When a player was freaking out he just stood in the dugout corner.

 

And of course the infamous letter to the commissioner about teams plunking Rickie, Prince, and Braun.

[sveumrules]

I still think hiring Macha was Melvin's biggest mistake. Yost was the ultimate players' manager and Macha was on the opposite end of that spectrum. Will forever be curious how things might have played out if they just kept Sveum.

 

Then again the pitching was so bad it might have all been a moot point anyway.

 

In regards to Villar he successfully stole 3rd with 2 outs in the bottom of the 5th.

[rickh150]

I still think hiring Macha was Melvin's biggest mistake. Yost was the ultimate players' manager and Macha was on the opposite end of that spectrum. Will forever be curious how things might have played out if they just kept Sveum.

 

Then again the pitching was so bad it might have all been a moot point anyway.

 

In regards to Villar he successfully stole 3rd with 2 outs in the bottom of the 5th.

 

 

That SB title will be mine!!!!!!!

[adambr2]

AJ is a pretty awful catcher throwing runners out so I wasn't too worried about it. He's definitely chasing the SB title, though.

[nate82]

AJ is a pretty awful catcher throwing runners out so I wasn't too worried about it. He's definitely chasing the SB title, though.

 

Which is nice.

[rickh150]

AJ is a pretty awful catcher throwing runners out so I wasn't too worried about it. He's definitely chasing the SB title, though.

 

Which is nice.

 

Selfish play in risk-not-worth-reward situations that affect TEAM results.

 

CC is way too loosy goosy with running game and game management. It's like he has zero say on steals and takes (3-0 counts). He's the sub in high school that let's you get away with anything...... Except when getting thrown out at 3rd for the 25th unforced out of the year. THEN, and only then, will he get tough. Ha....

[rickh150]

Over slid 2nd today.... Chucked again later in the game.. I think he's at about 30 UBOs (unforced baserunning outs). However, I'm not up in arms with getting nabbed at 2nd. High reward vs risk situations today, even though Over sliding is careless and should never happen.

 

Only two outs on the bases today.... Getting better, Villar.

[Devinep]

His all-star looking OBP of 389 would be a lot more mediocre if he didn't get credit for getting on base then running into outs (which do out a waste to getting on base in the first place)

[adambr2]

Villar has 63 runs scored this year, which is best on the team and 17th in the NL despite being on the 4th lowest scoring team in the NL. So I think he's doing just fine with his OBP. And yeah he still runs into too many outs, but Fangraphs still grades him out as a slightly above average baserunner this year.

[MrTPlush]

His all-star looking OBP of 389 would be a lot more mediocre if he didn't get credit for getting on base then running into outs (which do out a waste to getting on base in the first place)

 

Then he gets credit for an extra base hit every time he steals a base with that logic, so Villar wins.

[1992casey]

Base hits may have moved up or scored a runner, so it's not an even trade.

[Devinep]

His all-star looking OBP of 389 would be a lot more mediocre if he didn't get credit for getting on base then running into outs (which do out a waste to getting on base in the first place)

 

Then he gets credit for an extra base hit every time he steals a base with that logic, so Villar wins.

 

Yeah, but my point is getting on base doesn't matter if you just get a single or walk then get picked off with a obviously big lead or getting thrown out at a dumb time likely to stat pad

[And That]

Yeah, but my point is getting on base doesn't matter if you just get a single or walk then get picked off with a obviously big lead or getting thrown out at a dumb time likely to stat pad

What if you drive in a run with a hit directly before you get caught stealing?

[Devinep]

Yeah, but my point is getting on base doesn't matter if you just get a single or walk then get picked off with a obviously big lead or getting thrown out at a dumb time likely to stat pad

What if you drive in a run with a hit directly before you get caught stealing?

 

What about it? That already has nothing to do with OBP

[BuckyBrewer61]

Fangraphs still grades him out as a slightly above average baserunner this year.

 

This. I get frustrated with bad baserunning as much as the next guy and yes some of his gaffes are just dumb, but you take the good with the bad when the net result is a positive. See: Carlos Gomez.

 

To me, Villar is the baserunning equivalent of Adam Dunn or Russell Branyan. Hopefully he can learn more discipline and you certainly work towards that, but until then you don't tell him not to swing for the fences or choke up with 2 strikes because you're worried about strikeouts.

[MrTPlush]

Yeah, but my point is getting on base doesn't matter if you just get a single or walk then get picked off with a obviously big lead or getting thrown out at a dumb time likely to stat pad

What if you drive in a run with a hit directly before you get caught stealing?

 

What about it? That already has nothing to do with OBP

 

You said getting on base doesn't matter if you end up getting out by some mistake after the fact...that simply isn't true because you can advance runners, score them, etc.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Let's also be honest here. Playing team baseball at this point, where an extra run or extra win for this year's Brewers means absolutely nothing. Zero.

 

But winning a SB title will influence Villar's future arbitration hearings, contract negotiations, etc. This isn't little league, this is his career. If you could do something at your job that was considered risky, but would have zero negative effect on your company while potentially netting you a raise, would you do it?

 

Don't mean to say players should be purely selfish, but I don't blame Villar one bit if he is just trying to accumulate stats. If we were in a pennant race I'd feel different, but at this point stats = $$. Wins = nothing.

[jerichoholicninja]

Let's also be honest here. Playing team baseball at this point, where an extra run or extra win for this year's Brewers means absolutely nothing. Zero.

 

But winning a SB title will influence Villar's future arbitration hearings, contract negotiations, etc. This isn't little league, this is his career. If you could do something at your job that was considered risky, but would have zero negative effect on your company while potentially netting you a raise, would you do it?

 

Don't mean to say players should be purely selfish, but I don't blame Villar one bit if he is just trying to accumulate stats. If we were in a pennant race I'd feel different, but at this point stats = $$. Wins = nothing.

 

Sure his stolen base totals will look good but he's still getting thrown out too. He leads the league in caught stealing right now. And if it's all about boosting his numbers for contract negotiations, when his agent says look at all the stolen bases the team will counter with look at all the times you got thrown out and took yourself out of scoring position and hurt the team.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Sure his stolen base totals will look good but he's still getting thrown out too. He leads the league in caught stealing right now. And if it's all about boosting his numbers for contract negotiations, when his agent says look at all the stolen bases the team will counter with look at all the times you got thrown out and took yourself out of scoring position and hurt the team.

 

This is true, but I would think that high SB total and leading the league in SB carries more weight than his caught stealing percentage. That said, I certainly don't know. I'd be curious as to how that actually factors into contracts, particularly in arbitration hearings.

[rickh150]

Sure his stolen base totals will look good but he's still getting thrown out too. He leads the league in caught stealing right now. And if it's all about boosting his numbers for contract negotiations, when his agent says look at all the stolen bases the team will counter with look at all the times you got thrown out and took yourself out of scoring position and hurt the team.

 

This is true, but I would think that high SB total and leading the league in SB carries more weight than his caught stealing percentage. That said, I certainly don't know. I'd be curious as to how that actually factors into contracts, particularly in arbitration hearings.

 

His antics hurt both on the field (30ish UNforced outs) and off (arby contract in a couple years will be higher).

[DHonks]

Villar has been a young player learning from mistakes this year. But due to his OBP and homers, he's been a very pleasant surprise. He's easily our best middle infielder since Weeks' 2 or 3 best years, and probably since JJ Hardy's peak 2-3 years.

[dlk9s]

Fangraphs still grades him out as a slightly above average baserunner this year.

 

This. I get frustrated with bad baserunning as much as the next guy and yes some of his gaffes are just dumb, but you take the good with the bad when the net result is a positive. See: Carlos Gomez.

And maybe the ultimate example, where the result was a GIGANTIC net positive: Brett Favre

[adambr2]

Yep. Villar's Fangraphs page pegs his value this year at $16.6M. So while I get the frustrations with his mistakes, the fact that the only discussion on him is a 10 pager criticizing his baserunning makes me feel like we're losing sight of the bigger picture in that the guy has been a huge net positive for us as a young player which is exactly what we need.