Villar Cherry-Picking 3rd

[Devinep]

The moron did it again today.

 

While they seem pretty preventable I think the group of people that calls him a "moran" for getting thrown out are also the ones who applaud and praise him as he leads the league in steals. He's still a young player learning to steal. Why not in a year with no expectations see how far you can push the envelope? As frustrating as some of the blunders may be between him and our old friend Carlos Gomez, these two players have also contributed to scoring runs and putting themselves in positions to score that other players simply cannot do due to their tools. In any situation you're going to get some good with the bad. Any player. Chris Carter K's, Braun has chronic injuries, Scooter is handcuffed to second and can maybe? hit lefties, etc.

 

That "moran" coming into the season was a castoff by his old organization. Looked at as maybe a utility guy and placeholder until Arcia is ready. Now he could be long term with the organization as he bats around .300 with some pop and speed. Growing pains are part of it.

 

All players do have issues, but the difference is Villars is easily preventable and is doesn't take learning "experience" to determine that his attempts of 3rd aren't worth it even if he was making it.

 

That doesn't mean he's not a good player (his pop has nothing tondo with base running so I'm not sure why it's even mentooned) and that his base running in other areas isn't good, just stop stealing third (the risk vs reward is obviously off)

[rickh150]

Bo Ryan would have absolutely none of this BS on his teams. I contend that if he was running this team, Villar would learn quickly not to steal 3rd with two outs.

Also, telling Villar not to steal 3rd base with two outs should have been done a long time ago. That it still goes on, make or caught, signals Counsell's stupidity or lack of manager control on the team. Only conclusions to draw. Another close game lost!

 

Repeating myself....... My softball team, not made up of many huge baseball fans, did not make as many unforced errors at 3rd base in a decade as Villar has made this season. Something is wrong. Fix it now, Counsell.

[NievesNoNO]

Look, I don't much care if the Brewers lose this year but this is not acceptable. I can accept doing it once, but there's really no excuse for it a second time. I think he deserves to sit a game.

 

He looks to have turned himself into a nice player, but somebody needs to step in and let him know it's not acceptable.

 

I would like to say, well maybe he just has the green light to steal whenever but I don't think there's a manager or player in baseball with those circumstances. If you have the speed to steal third then clearly you don't need to steal third to score from second. There is really no way to justify it.

 

Reign him in please.

[MrTPlush]

What does an OK basketball coach have to do with the Brewers? Who cares what Bo Ryan would do.

 

If we want to talk about making idiotic mistakes on the base paths we should probably talk about the old guy who stands near 3rd base.

[stoutdude04]

What does an OK basketball coach have to do with the Brewers? Who cares what Bo Ryan would do.

 

If we want to talk about making idiotic mistakes on the base paths we should probably talk about the old guy who stands near 3rd base.

 

I have been in complete agreement with your last 5 or so posts which has been shocking to me. Keep it up.

[nate82]

Bo Ryan would have absolutely none of this BS on his teams. I contend that if he was running this team, Villar would learn quickly not to steal 3rd with two outs.

Also, telling Villar not to steal 3rd base with two outs should have been done a long time ago. That it still goes on, make or caught, signals Counsell's stupidity or lack of manager control on the team. Only conclusions to draw. Another close game lost!

 

Repeating myself....... My softball team, not made up of many huge baseball fans, did not make as many unforced errors at 3rd base in a decade as Villar has made this season. Something is wrong. Fix it now, Counsell.

 

LOL softball team that is funny oh wait you are being serious.

[rickh150]

What does an OK basketball coach have to do with the Brewers? Who cares what Bo Ryan would do.

 

If we want to talk about making idiotic mistakes on the base paths we should probably talk about the old guy who stands near 3rd base.

 

 

 

The "OK basketball coach" (really?) with no MLB experience would take care of this problem. The grizzled, veteran MLB player and savior manager Counsell....hasn't and, looks like, won't....probably won't deal with it either. Funny, you didn't deny this.

 

Sedar isn't the guy calling decisions to steal 3rd with two outs on the bases. Counsell sends in or relays the signs (or lack thereof) to Sedar. He calls the shots. Oops, basketball reference.....

[rickh150]

Bo Ryan would have absolutely none of this BS on his teams. I contend that if he was running this team, Villar would learn quickly not to steal 3rd with two outs.

Also, telling Villar not to steal 3rd base with two outs should have been done a long time ago. That it still goes on, make or caught, signals Counsell's stupidity or lack of manager control on the team. Only conclusions to draw. Another close game lost!

 

Repeating myself....... My softball team, not made up of many huge baseball fans, did not make as many unforced errors at 3rd base in a decade as Villar has made this season. Something is wrong. Fix it now, Counsell.

 

LOL softball team that is funny oh wait you are being serious.

 

 

Sadly, I am being serious. A dozen players that hardly follow MLB make less unforced errors at 3B in 10 seasons than one professional MLB player in 3 and a half months. Villar's running into outs IS THAT BAD! At this pace, he will have roughly a game and a half worth of unforced outs by himself at season's end. Again, some are ok. It shows he is trying to get that extra base ( more reward vs. some risk). Most other times, as said and repeated often, he's playing without a brain.

[jerichoholicninja]

The moron did it again today.

 

While they seem pretty preventable I think the group of people that calls him a "moran" for getting thrown out are also the ones who applaud and praise him as he leads the league in steals. He's still a young player learning to steal. Why not in a year with no expectations see how far you can push the envelope? As frustrating as some of the blunders may be between him and our old friend Carlos Gomez, these two players have also contributed to scoring runs and putting themselves in positions to score that other players simply cannot do due to their tools. In any situation you're going to get some good with the bad. Any player. Chris Carter K's, Braun has chronic injuries, Scooter is handcuffed to second and can maybe? hit lefties, etc.

 

That "moran" coming into the season was a castoff by his old organization. Looked at as maybe a utility guy and placeholder until Arcia is ready. Now he could be long term with the organization as he bats around .300 with some pop and speed. Growing pains are part of it.

 

All players do have issues, but the difference is Villars is easily preventable and is doesn't take learning "experience" to determine that his attempts of 3rd aren't worth it even if he was making it.

 

That doesn't mean he's not a good player (his pop has nothing tondo with base running so I'm not sure why it's even mentooned) and that his base running in other areas isn't good, just stop stealing third (the risk vs reward is obviously off)

 

The same things were said about Gomez and he never changed. I mean it makes sense to me to just tell the guy to stop stealing in those situations and if he doesn't he gets bench. So either they're not telling him that, he's not listening and their not doing anything about it, or they are encouraging it. None of those situations reflect well on the coaching staff.

[MrTPlush]

What does an OK basketball coach have to do with the Brewers? Who cares what Bo Ryan would do.

 

If we want to talk about making idiotic mistakes on the base paths we should probably talk about the old guy who stands near 3rd base.

 

 

 

The "OK basketball coach" (really?) with no MLB experience would take care of this problem. The grizzled, veteran MLB player and savior manager Counsell....hasn't and, looks like, won't....probably won't deal with it either. Funny, you didn't deny this.

 

Sedar isn't the guy calling decisions to steal 3rd with two outs on the bases. Counsell sends in or relays the signs (or lack thereof) to Sedar. He calls the shots. Oops, basketball reference.....

 

Oh I'm not denying Counsell is a bad manager(he sucks). He is just the placeholder until we start putting together a competitive team. Though I think this thread has moved on from the stealing 3rd base problem and onto a real problem caused by Villar which is all the other ways he gets out on the basepaths.

[1992casey]

He's still a young player learning to steal.

 

Players should know that well before they get to the Major Leagues. The only adjustment that should be necessary at the big league level should be to adapt to the fact that they're running against better defenses.

 

I'd stop well short of calling Villar a moron, though. I think I'd stop short of calling him selfish, too. He's simply making bad decisions.

[adambr2]

I'd stop short of calling Counsell a placeholder manager, too. I think the plan right now is for him to grow along with this club as a manager all the way as the team grows, not ditch him for a veteran manager as soon as we have a contender again. Grsnted, all plans are subject to change but I think that's the plan now.

 

Like any other manager that we've had, Counsell does some things I like and some things I don't. But the main thing I look for in a manager is the ability to think for himself and not be rigidly tied to a 'book'. I think he's shown that ability, particularly in extra innings on the road with the pen.

[pacopete4]

This thread. Yikes.

[adambr2]

While I do think that Villar needs to clean up his baserunning over time, I can't believe we've dedicated 4 pages just to talk about his attempts to steal 3rd.

 

Of all the reasons we aren't a good team this year, Villar's risks are so, so far down on the list.

[Devinep]

I doubt anyone is trying too hard to solve the mystery of why the Brewers aren't a good team this year

[stoutdude04]

I doubt anyone is trying too hard to solve the mystery of why the Brewers aren't a good team this year

 

I assume it's because they have scored less runs than the other team more often.

 

Honestly though, they do not have a great team. They have a strong bullpen, 3 solid guys in the rotation, and 4 or 5 strong to really good position players. It's not surprising to see them play poorly.

 

To me, Villar's boneheaded plays aren't whats keeping us from being a good team.

[rickh150]

I doubt anyone is trying too hard to solve the mystery of why the Brewers aren't a good team this year

 

I assume it's because they have scored less runs than the other team more often.

 

Honestly though, they do not have a great team. They have a strong bullpen, 3 solid guys in the rotation, and 4 or 5 strong to really good position players. It's not surprising to see them play poorly.

 

To me, Villar's boneheaded plays aren't whats keeping us from being a good team.

 

 

Why are people equating Villar's bad base-running to how good our team is? Are we trying to cover this up and pretend this isn't stupid baseball?

 

If we were in 1st place, this is an issue. If we're in last place, this is an issue. If Joe Schmo in AA Biloxi is doing the same, it is an issue. This thread is long because the problem is still a problem, and the problem (Villar stealing 3rd with two outs for his personal glory/stats/money) is a very fixable one (manager says stop).

[rickh150]

While I do think that Villar needs to clean up his baserunning over time, I can't believe we've dedicated 4 pages just to talk about his attempts to steal 3rd.

 

Of all the reasons we aren't a good team this year, Villar's risks are so, so far down on the list.

 

A different manager could fix this problem tomorrow, unlike our other issues (better starting pitching, better averages/OPS at the bottom of order, hitting with men on base, strike outs, etc.)

[MilwaukeesBest]

While I do think that Villar needs to clean up his baserunning over time, I can't believe we've dedicated 4 pages just to talk about his attempts to steal 3rd.

 

Of all the reasons we aren't a good team this year, Villar's risks are so, so far down on the list.

 

A different manager could fix this problem tomorrow, unlike our other issues (better starting pitching, better averages/OPS at the bottom of order, hitting with men on base, strike outs, etc.)

 

Good idea. Let's fire Counsell tonight after the game.

[rickh150]

While I do think that Villar needs to clean up his baserunning over time, I can't believe we've dedicated 4 pages just to talk about his attempts to steal 3rd.

 

Of all the reasons we aren't a good team this year, Villar's risks are so, so far down on the list.

 

A different manager could fix this problem tomorrow, unlike our other issues (better starting pitching, better averages/OPS at the bottom of order, hitting with men on base, strike outs, etc.)

 

Good idea. Let's fire Counsell tonight after the game.

 

 

Again, an all or nothing comment...

Some here are mother hens when protecting the player or team from fair criticism, no matter how on the spot the criticism is.

[MrTPlush]

I must have missed the report where Villar is stealing 3rd base on his own to pad stats, have glory, and make money. Do we have a link to this issue.

[rickh150]

Tom H. is coming around......

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/387113131.html

[adambr2]

While I do think that Villar needs to clean up his baserunning over time, I can't believe we've dedicated 4 pages just to talk about his attempts to steal 3rd.

 

Of all the reasons we aren't a good team this year, Villar's risks are so, so far down on the list.

 

A different manager could fix this problem tomorrow, unlike our other issues (better starting pitching, better averages/OPS at the bottom of order, hitting with men on base, strike outs, etc.)

 

I really hope you're not suggesting starting over with managers just to get Villar to stop stealing 3rd with 2 outs. The thing is, our other issues, are our real issues. Villar stealing 3rd with 2 outs, (I think he's been caught twice this entire year stealing 3rd with 2 out), has probably not cost us a run over the course of this season, much less a win.

 

No one ever said it was good fundamental baseball. I even said he needs to clean that up over time. The thing is, this year, it doesn't matter. At all. Do you think maybe it's possible that right now, while it doesn't matter, Counsell wants to let one of his brightest young players make his own mistakes and learn from them himself over time and grow as a player right now and gradually adapt and learn his own limitations? Rather than getting up in his face and benching him and micromanaging his baserunning?

[MilwaukeesBest]

While I do think that Villar needs to clean up his baserunning over time, I can't believe we've dedicated 4 pages just to talk about his attempts to steal 3rd.

 

Of all the reasons we aren't a good team this year, Villar's risks are so, so far down on the list.

 

A different manager could fix this problem tomorrow, unlike our other issues (better starting pitching, better averages/OPS at the bottom of order, hitting with men on base, strike outs, etc.)

 

I really hope you're not suggesting starting over with managers just to get Villar to stop stealing 3rd with 2 outs. The thing is, our other issues, are our real issues. Villar stealing 3rd with 2 outs, (I think he's been caught twice this entire year stealing 3rd with 2 out), has probably not cost us a run over the course of this season, much less a win.

 

No one ever said it was good fundamental baseball. I even said he needs to clean that up over time. The thing is, this year, it doesn't matter. At all. Do you think maybe it's possible that right now, while it doesn't matter, Counsell wants to let one of his brightest young players make his own mistakes and learn from them himself over time and grow as a player right now and gradually adapt and learn his own limitations? Rather than getting up in his face and benching him and micromanaging his baserunning?

 

Agreed. Definitely not an issue to lose your mind over in the first year of a full year's teardown. If he continues to do it when the team is expecting and playing for a postseason birth, different story. Right now work on the stuff that you're not good at and go from there. Limit and eliminate it, yes, but no reason for fans to call for his spot.

 

And yes, I am "protecting" him in the sense that it's a giant pet peeve of mine when players are exceptional across the board in their skills but have one thing they need to work on or is completely blown out of proportion and people freak out about it. The Braun trade rumors for example, each article lists the "PED drama" that he'd bring, but Aroldis Chapman's domestic abuse seldom comes up, Ortiz's Hall of Fame career and no mention of PED's, Bartolo Colon as America's hero at 42 but no mention of his past, etc. This is no different. I said it yesterday, Villar is batting .300 at leadoff, walks, hits for some pop, plays pretty darn good defense when a tough play is in front of him, reliable, not injury prone, etc. Milwaukee fans don't get these players as often as other franchises. Enjoy him.

[adambr2]

Exactly. Look I understand people get crazy upset about fundamental stuff, but this is a year for learning and development. The guy is top 10 in the NL in SBs, walks, and hits, and gets on base almost 40 percent of the time. And he just turned 25. Maybe we can cut him a little more slack.