Wilkins called up, Davies to CS [Latest: Boras displeased about Davies' demotion, post 20]

[pacopete4]

Boras didn't even bring up this point but I will...Maybe they should of left Davies up instead of sending him down...I'm pretty sure he wouldn't do any worse than Wilkins with a bat in his hands.

 

 

Maybe he didn't want to sound as silly as you sound writing it on our message board? Who knows? Hard to dive into some people's minds.

[pitchleague]

Personal attacks will not be tolerated here at brewerfan.net. Please knock it off. You may not have thought this wasn't an attack but it certainly wasn't a compliment.

[502 to Right]

Boras didn't even bring up this point but I will...Maybe they should of left Davies up instead of sending him down...I'm pretty sure he wouldn't do any worse than Wilkins with a bat in his hands.

 

 

Maybe he didn't want to sound as silly as you sound writing it on our message board? Who knows? Hard to dive into some people's minds.

 

 

Given the fact that Wilkens is hitless in his stint, I don't think it's a silly comment. I'm pretty sure Zach Davies could muster zero hits in the same amount of plate appearances.

[torts]

Davies has really turned in a great season outside of April

[dacbrewers]

I like Davies, he has the best control of all the starters. Not sure hitters are making the correct adjustment on him by moving up in box.

[jerichoholicninja]

Wilkins stayed around for quite awhile and did absolutely nothing so I think we can forget about the whole pension thing.

 

Also, the Blue Jays just optioned Aaron Sanchez to single A for the same reason the Brewers optioned Davies. Sanchez agreed with it and even said if they were going to skip one of his starts he might as well get sent down so the team can bring someone up to help.

[RobertR]

Toronto is in a totally different situation. They're tied for 1st place. A single game could be the difference between winning the division or a one game playoff. A single game meant nothing for the Brewers.

[jerichoholicninja]

Toronto is in a totally different situation. They're tied for 1st place. A single game could be the difference between winning the division or a one game playoff. A single game meant nothing for the Brewers.

 

I don't see how that should make a difference. He's not hurt, he's not going to play in the minors, and I'm pretty sure I read he won't even report. If people are going to throw a fit about what the Brewers did with Davies they should be doing the same about Sanchez. The only difference I can see is that Sanchez agreed with the move while Boras was a big crabby pants about it.

[RobertR]

Toronto is in a totally different situation. They're tied for 1st place. A single game could be the difference between winning the division or a one game playoff. A single game meant nothing for the Brewers.

 

I don't see how that should make a difference. He's not hurt, he's not going to play in the minors, and I'm pretty sure I read he won't even report. If people are going to throw a fit about what the Brewers did with Davies they should be doing the same about Sanchez. The only difference I can see is that Sanchez agreed with the move while Boras was a big crabby pants about it.

 

The difference is that there is enormous potential short term gain for Toronto and no short term gain for the Brewers. Toronto is asking Sanchez to make a short term sacrifice for the goals of the team. The Brewers asked Davies to make a sacrifice for no gain for the team or Davies. The Brewers had about a 0% chance of making the playoffs before that move, and even if Wilkins came up with a big hit, they had a 0% chance of making the playoffs after the move. There was literally no benefit to the Brewers. The potential benefit was that the Brewers finished 19 games out of the playoffs instead of 20.

 

The benefit to Toronto for potentially winning even a single extra game is enormous. That might be the difference between the playoffs, and potentially the World Series, or missing out. There's enormous benefit for that move to the club.

 

The cost/benefit ratios are wildly different. One is a legitimate baseball move with tangible benefits, one was just being cute. I don't blame Davies or Boras one bit for being upset over Davies sacrificing a good percentage of his salary for no benefit to himself or the team.

[jerichoholicninja]

Toronto is in a totally different situation. They're tied for 1st place. A single game could be the difference between winning the division or a one game playoff. A single game meant nothing for the Brewers.

 

I don't see how that should make a difference. He's not hurt, he's not going to play in the minors, and I'm pretty sure I read he won't even report. If people are going to throw a fit about what the Brewers did with Davies they should be doing the same about Sanchez. The only difference I can see is that Sanchez agreed with the move while Boras was a big crabby pants about it.

 

The difference is that there is enormous potential short term gain for Toronto and no short term gain for the Brewers. Toronto is asking Sanchez to make a short term sacrifice for the goals of the team. The Brewers asked Davies to make a sacrifice for no gain for the team or Davies. The Brewers had about a 0% chance of making the playoffs before that move, and even if Wilkins came up with a big hit, they had a 0% chance of making the playoffs after the move. There was literally no benefit to the Brewers. The potential benefit was that the Brewers finished 19 games out of the playoffs instead of 20.

 

The benefit to Toronto for potentially winning even a single extra game is enormous. That might be the difference between the playoffs, and potentially the World Series, or missing out. There's enormous benefit for that move to the club.

 

The cost/benefit ratios are wildly different. One is a legitimate baseball move with tangible benefits, one was just being cute. I don't blame Davies or Boras one bit for being upset over Davies sacrificing a good percentage of his salary for no benefit to himself or the team.

 

I just can't agree with that. Both teams did exactly the same thing for the same reason.

[RobertR]

You can't agree that Toronto is actually contending and the Brewers are not? And that makes a difference? You don't think the context is different?

 

Heck Sanchez ' s playoff share might make up any loss in earnings.

 

Toronto ' s goal for this year was to win as many games as possible, make the playoffs, and possibly win a championship. The Brewers had the goal of not losing 100, and developing a foundation of future success which should include not potentially angering a potential part of the future rotation for no benefit. And they called up a bad player in the bargain which didn't even help the goal of short term wins.

 

These situations are not even remotely alike. Why trade Lucroy if you're worried about maybe winning one more game?

[TheCrew07]

These situations are not even remotely alike. Why trade Lucroy if you're worried about maybe winning one more game?

 

I think the obvious answer is simply PR, as in proving that they aren't tanking, that there are making every effort to win while simultaneously building for the future.

 

I don't think that's done anything to placate the casual fans who don't really understand the mechanisms within baseball and are pissed that the Brewers are once again bottom dwellers, at least in NE WI I hear pretty much the exact same thing from people who sit on that side of the fence.

 

Regardless I have a hard time with the angst towards the Brewers, I see Davies as a #3 best case, I think he's going to be up and down floating around a 4 ERA most of his career. He's not a centerpiece, he's not someone to build around, he's a role player, but if he can be a #3 he'll make a ton of money for himself throughout his career so we're debating relative peanuts by comparison. It's a significant sum relative to what most of us take home yearly, but in terms of professional baseball it's basically nothing.

 

To me this one of those things that's not issue, until someone makes it an issue and blows it way out of proportion, if it's a business, with rules on both sides, as long as rules aren't broken I'm largely indifferent both ways, and this is not on the same level as scheming against Hardy to delay his impending FA by a year.

 

What's truly the core issue here? Are we so pitching starved that we're afraid of alienating anyone who performs regardless of their ceiling as a player? Are we worried about not being an attractive destination for FA players?

[jerichoholicninja]

Dodgers have done the same with Kenta Maeda. There were lots of people saying when this happened that it was an unprecedented move. It's happened 3 times this year alone.

[RobertR]

Yes, playoff contending teams do it, because there's an actual benefit to them if they can find an extra win. Do teams fighting to stay out of the cellar do it regularly?

 

I think we've beaten this to death, plenty. I think it's a) a move that almost never amounts to anything, and b) is only really defensible if a team is in real contention. Why screw with a performing pre-arby player's paycheck otherwise? There's no PR boost to winning 69 games instead of 68 or for calling up a nobody like Andy Wilkins. It didn't change the Brewers playoff odds any. It took money out of a deserving player's pocket for no reason and didn't create any goodwill. Now, maybe goodwill doesn't mean anything and maybe Davies is never going to be more than a back end of a rotation guy, but rewarding performance is generally a good thing. As they actually teach in business school.

 

I think the question is if a similar situation pops up again next year, will they do it?

[trwi7]

Why screw with a performing pre-arby player's paycheck otherwise?

 

They can easily just give him an extra $20K or whatever he lost when they renew his contract this winter. It's really not a big deal.

[1992casey]

Dodgers have done the same with Kenta Maeda.

 

The big difference is that Kenta and his agent were consulted first. And in this case, Kenta will be "down" for about two days before making his scheduled start on Monday. It's also possible that Kenta's contract might call for him to receive his full Major League pay during this brief "departure."