Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 3)

[splitterpfj]

it makes no sense for Cleveland to trade an outfielder with star potential right now, so Zimmer and Bradley are out. If Brady Aiken is moved, it's because Cleveland has doubts - if you think a guy has #1 starter potential, you don't flip him after a handful of starts at the bottom of your system.

 

If the Indians let go of any of their, "top four", I think it almost has to be Bobby Bradley. Whether they would or not I don't know, but he's the only one I could see as a reasonable possibility.

 

If Bradley is out too, I have to think Cleveland would be outbid for Lucroy.

 

I will say this, whether it's for Lucroy, or someone else the Brewers have, Triston McKenzie is exactly the type of player the Brewers will be looking at. Not only is McKenzie an obvious talent, he's also years from the big leagues, which makes it easier for the other team go let him go, since he isn't filling an obvious need at this time.

 

I'm sure the Brewers like Sheffield, I just don't know that they like him as the #1 in a Lucroy deal, and I have to think they'd want McKenzie, so there could be some sort of a match here.

[mattyo]

OK - if Texas offered the following deal, would you accept if you were DS:

 

Texas gets: Lucroy & either Jeffress/Smith

 

Brewers get: Brinson, Taveras, either Yohander Mendez/Ariel Jurado, either Ronald Guzman/Travis Demeritte

 

Would you pull the trigger on this deal? Guzman and Demeritte both were ranked in the 20's in the Rangers system in the MLB.com preseason rankings, yet both just made the Futures game after putting up good numbers in the 1st half of their seasons. Is this a fair return for Luc and one of our two premier relief pitchers, or does one side laugh the other off the phone? Curious for others thoughts on this trade offer.

 

Yes I would take this deal in a heartbeat. Any deal which brings in Brinson and Taveras makes me very happy.

 

As far as Cleveland goes, there is a 0% chance of any trade happening that doesnt include at least 1 of their top 5 prospects. We've been hearing Stearns values Lucroy very, very highly for a long time now. No way does he let him go without at least one of their best.

[Boomer5]

Just trade everyone to Texas and get it over with:

 

Texas gets:

- C Lucroy (~1.5 yrs, $7.5m rem.)

- OF Braun (~4.5 yrs, $90m rem., helps make Brinson available)

- 1B Carter (helps make Gallo available)

- SP Nelson and/or SP Guerra

- RP Smith and/or RP Jeffress

 

Milwaukee gets:

- 3B Gallo (#7 on Top 100, #1 on Top 3B, #1 on TEX)

- OF Brinson (#13 on Top 100, #1 on Top OF, #2 on TEX)

- RHP Tate (#31 on Top 100, #7 on Top RHP, #3 on TEX)

- RHP Ortiz (#63 on Top 100, #4 on TEX)

- RHP Matuella (#7 on TEX)

- OF Taveras (#8 on TEX)

- SS Tejada (some 18 year old with a .907 OPS this year we may be scouting)

- 1B Fielder (~4.5 yrs, 80m rem., helps offset Braun's salary)

 

Texas gains some rotation and bullpen help and their lineup for the rest of this year and next year becomes:

 

RF Choo (.884)

CF Desmond (.899)

C Lucroy (.853)

DH Braun (.881)

3B Beltre (.778)

1B Carter (.830) / Moreland (.707)

LF Mazara (.750) / Rua (.807)

2B Odor (.787)

SS Andrus (.771) / Profar (.828)

 

Easy. Done deal. (half blue)

 

Is Texas on Braun's trade list?

[FVBrewerFan]

it makes no sense for Cleveland to trade an outfielder with star potential right now, so Zimmer and Bradley are out.

 

It makes perfect sense. Indians attendance has been horrific, to the point where the franchise can't last much longer there if that continues. They need to show the fans they're really going all-out to win it all this year.

 

Even if they don't succeed in winning the WS, or even make it there, at least they have created a major buzz. That will be huge for attendance the rest of this year and next year. If that means trading their top prospect it's worth it, given the situation they're in.

[paul253]

If I'm trading with Texas I want pitching. They have Tate. They have Ortiz. They have Mautella. I want two of them. My offer is:

 

Rangers get Lucroy and Smith

Brewers get Brinson, Tate, and then either Matuella or Ortiz and either Tavares or Jurado.

[ohiocat5908]

The problem with the Indians top prospects is that they are at positions of need at the MLB level (OF,1B,DH). In the case of Zimmer and Frazier they are also within a year from being ready for the MLB club. The only way one of those guys gets traded is in a deal for an OF with team control. There is also a huge hole at 1B with Napoli a FA at the end of the year and Santana a FA after next year if they pick up his option. There isn't anyone in AAA or AA that is viewed as a legitimate option. That makes it tough to trade Bradley without getting a 1B guy back. The one thing the Indians have in a ton of abundance is pitching, middle infield talent and OF prospect depth. Greg Allen is the OF prospect that I believe actually may have the highest floor between Zimmer, Frazier and himself. +Speed, +Defense, +On Base skills. I think he is a for sure CF starter in the future ahead of Zimmer because he is superior defensively. If I were the Brewers he would be an amazing secondary piece to acquire.

[Mudville9]

I understand we want top talent, but if Frazier/Zimmer is not available, and Stearns isn't sold on Bradley or Aiken, I don't think Sheffield, McKenzie, Mejia, Hillman and a lower lottery tickets is necessarily out of the question. I don't care about getting a catcher in the deal as I'm a best player available guy, but I think with Mejia the two coincide. Also gives us three high upside arms. That is five guys you throw into the mix between Wisconsin and Biloxi. AAA becomes another place for veterans looking for a change of scenery and waiver claims and any of our top prospects that deserve to be there. I think by 2018 that would be a stacked minor league system top to bottom and Stearns can concentrate on sustainability rather than rebuilding. This could even sway our A+ team for next year so we don't have to go to Lancaster.

[splitterpfj]

In the case of Zimmer and Frazier they are also within a year from being ready for the MLB club. The only way one of those guys gets traded is in a deal for an OF with team control.

 

This is spot-on.

[CheezWizHed]

It makes perfect sense. Indians attendance has been horrific, to the point where the franchise can't last much longer there if that continues. They need to show the fans they're really going all-out to win it all this year.

 

Even if they don't succeed in winning the WS, or even make it there, at least they have created a major buzz. That will be huge for attendance the rest of this year and next year. If that means trading their top prospect it's worth it, given the situation they're in.

 

They should just sign LeBron then. It worked out for the White Sox and Jordan (well, the hype part anyway).

[Madhawk23]

OK - Let's say that the Indians decide that this is their window to go for a title and that they don't want to be overshadowed by the Cavs winning the NBA title this year, and offer up the following:

 

Indians gets: Lucroy & either Jeffress/Smith

 

Brewers get: Sheffield, Clevinger, McKenzie and Mejia

 

Too much or too little for the Brewers? Sheffield and Clevinger are both Top 100 guys in BA's midseason rankings, but in this scenario we wouldn't be getting any of the preseason Top 4 guys in Zimmer, Frazier, Aiken or Bradley. Would you need to sub in one of these top 4 guys to make a deal with the Indians work?

[Jenkins5]

Indians want to be real contenders & make a big boy move, they have to pony up. You can't tell teams your top 4-5 guys are off the table and expect to get one of the top players on the market. It's the cost of business & buying at deadline. You sell out for your prize. I can live without Zimmer or Frazier. But Aiken & Bradley need to be on the table for me. Can't nickel & dime to get All-Star players.

[Bnowell4evr]

OK - Let's say that the Indians decide that this is their window to go for a title and that they don't want to be overshadowed by the Cavs winning the NBA title this year, and offer up the following:

 

Indians gets: Lucroy & either Jeffress/Smith

 

Brewers get: Sheffield, Clevinger, McKenzie and Mejia

 

Too much or too little for the Brewers? Sheffield and Clevinger are both Top 100 guys in BA's midseason rankings, but in this scenario we wouldn't be getting any of the preseason Top 4 guys in Zimmer, Frazier, Aiken or Bradley. Would you need to sub in one of these top 4 guys to make a deal with the Indians work?

 

Clevinger, Mejia and Sheffield were ranked 69, 70 and 71st in BA's mid season list and McKenzie has the highest ceiling of the 3 pitchers. I think that's a very fair proposal. It lacks the star power but is loaded with depth.

[Manty Brewer Fan]

Personally, I think Mejia is their 2nd best prospect after Frazier. I know that falls out of the industry consensus, but I believe his bat will be special.

 

Cleveland has a tremendous amount of talent in that organization so I'd be willing to work out a deal with them even with the very top guys off limits, although I wouldn't be in a rush to sweeten their side with additional pieces such as smith or jeffress if they won't put the big guns in. Let's not forget at this time last year Hader was no where near a top 100 prospect, and now he's a top 30 guy. It's about identifying future value more so than current.

 

I'd be ecstatic to see Lucroy for Mejia, Bradley, Clevinger and a nugget or two.

[Madhawk23]

Yeah, I think I could get behind this deal if it were to become a reality. The Indians appear to have a really good farm system right now, so getting three Top 100 guys (albeit guys in the 50+ range) and then a high ceiling arm like McKenzie would appear to be a great haul for Luc and one of our relievers. Cleveland would be able to then hold onto their "top 4" guys, and the Brewers would get a guy in Clevinger who could head to Milwaukee immediately and be a mid-rotation arm at worst, Sheffield would probably be ready by 2018, Mejia could be the catcher of the future and eventually move Nottingham to 1B, and McKenzie might be the best of the bunch in 3-4 years and would join other young arms like Diplan, Peralta, Herrera in our system.

[ohiocat5908]

A package of Sheffield, Clevinger, McKenzie and Mejia would be ponying up. That is 3 top 100 guys plus McKenzie who imo is a better prospect than either Sheffield or Clevinger in terms of upside. I honestly think that would be too much from the Indians for Lucroy and a reliever (even a good one). There is only one reliever on the market that is worth a top 100 guy and that is Miller.

[mlloyd10]

Cody Bellinger / Jose De Leon / Alex Verdugo for Lucroy

 

#2/#5/#6 prospects in their system - 20/91/92 overall

[splitterpfj]

A package of Sheffield, Clevinger, McKenzie and Mejia would be ponying up. That is 3 top 100 guys plus McKenzie who imo is a better prospect than either Sheffield or Clevinger in terms of upside. I honestly think that would be too much from the Indians for Lucroy and a reliever (even a good one). There is only one reliever on the market that is worth a top 100 guy and that is Miller.

 

Yes, it absolutely would be "ponying up", and most likely, Cleveland would not do it, but none of us know what the current price is for really good bullpen arms with team control either - something like this is not impossible.

 

My guess is, Milwaukee would insist on McKenzie, and Cleveland would insist on pulling one of the others out, replacing someone with a lower prospect, or even two if they were kids all the way at the bottom (not in talent, in pro ball).

[Madhawk23]

And, shouldn't you have to "pony up" for one of the best overall catchers in baseball (with 1.5 years left of team friendly control) along with a very good bullpen arm (also with a couple of years of team control)? Maybe the Indians aren't a match, or maybe I'm just got my expectations way too high here? But, I think we can look back at the Gomez deal last July where we received a very good haul of prospects in return for Gomez/Fiers. Personally, I think the haul for Lucroy and either Smith/Jeffress should be even greater than what we received last July.

[JackNicholson1974]

is anyone aware of any real rumors surrounding Lucroy? For as strong a season he has had, I have not heard anything at all.

[pacopete4]

is anyone aware of any real rumors surrounding Lucroy? For as strong a season he has had, I have not heard anything at all.

 

 

Could be something Stearns is learning from Doug Melvin. Keep the cards close to the vest.

[Madhawk23]

Seeing that there was literally no scuttlebutt before the Aaron Hill trade a week ago, my guess is that DS is keeping things very close to the vest with all of these trade discussions.

[paul253]

Could be something Stearns is learning from Doug Melvin. Keep the cards close to the vest

 

Maybe he isn't motivated to trade Lucroy.

[jerichoholicninja]

is anyone aware of any real rumors surrounding Lucroy? For as strong a season he has had, I have not heard anything at all.

 

 

Could be something Stearns is learning from Doug Melvin. Keep the cards close to the vest.

 

Every team out there knows what David wants. It's just who (if anyone) is going to give it to him.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

OK - Let's say that the Indians decide that this is their window to go for a title and that they don't want to be overshadowed by the Cavs winning the NBA title this year, and offer up the following:

 

Indians gets: Lucroy & either Jeffress/Smith

 

Brewers get: Sheffield, Clevinger, McKenzie and Mejia

 

Too much or too little for the Brewers? Sheffield and Clevinger are both Top 100 guys in BA's midseason rankings, but in this scenario we wouldn't be getting any of the preseason Top 4 guys in Zimmer, Frazier, Aiken or Bradley. Would you need to sub in one of these top 4 guys to make a deal with the Indians work?

 

Clevinger, Mejia and Sheffield were ranked 69, 70 and 71st in BA's mid season list and McKenzie has the highest ceiling of the 3 pitchers. I think that's a very fair proposal. It lacks the star power but is loaded with depth.

Which is the wrong move IMO using your best trade chip. I will say I am very tempted by it if instead of Clevinger Aiken is included.

[beekay414]

OK - Let's say that the Indians decide that this is their window to go for a title and that they don't want to be overshadowed by the Cavs winning the NBA title this year, and offer up the following:

 

Indians gets: Lucroy & either Jeffress/Smith

 

Brewers get: Sheffield, Clevinger, McKenzie and Mejia

 

Too much or too little for the Brewers? Sheffield and Clevinger are both Top 100 guys in BA's midseason rankings, but in this scenario we wouldn't be getting any of the preseason Top 4 guys in Zimmer, Frazier, Aiken or Bradley. Would you need to sub in one of these top 4 guys to make a deal with the Indians work?

 

I don't think you'd have to add Jeffress or Smith to that deal. If they were adamant about getting a reliever, give them Thornburg. No reason to add valuable pieces in Jeffress/Smith to a deal where you're not getting a franchise caliber player back. Sheffield, Clevinger and McKenzie is a deal alone that you ask for Lucroy. Adding in Mejia isn't really worth Smith/Jeffress to me.

 

Just my $0.02.