Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 3)

[brewerfan82]

The problem with that is the fact Texas is 10games ahead in their division. So now, I think Joey Gallo is untouchable.

I'm thinking a guy like Michael Matuella plus say Josh Morgan is enough to get Matt Moore. Leaving Texas with the ability to keep their top prospects.

 

How does sentence one lead to sentence two? They've given Gallo 1 plate appearance this year, so they haven't had a need for him. If anything, them doing well without his services demonstrates he's a disposable piece (this year) and should make him available in a trade for a guy like Lucroy.

 

I think it just depends on how much the Rangers want to upgrade/solidify their team and go for it this year. We have pieces to significantly bolster their already well put together team at catcher (Lucroy), rotation (Nelson/Guerra/Garza), bullpen (Jeffress/Smith), and/or bench (Hill/Carter) and they have a lot of enticing prospects we'd love to take off their hands in return. I don't think any other team can improve their roster to the extent the Brewers can, so if they're willing to deal some of their big prospects, we're in a position to make a deal happen.

[MrTPlush]

I think he is saying the motivation just won't be there. Which is a fair assumption.

[Jose Cardenal1]

Texas may be well ahead of its division right now but things can change in a matter of a couple weeks (take a look at Cleveland). Also Houston has gotten hot behind them. Both teams could use and have interest in Lucroy. Stearns can play them against each other to maximize the return as neither team wants the other to obtain Lucroy.

 

Stearns could do the same with the Giants and Dodgers who could both use Braun. Imagine a total return for those two (plus others and/or $) of:

 

J.Gallo

L.Ortiz

J.Deleon or G.Holmes or P.Bickford

C.Bellinger or C.Shaw

 

A 1b and 3b and 2 very good starting pitchers to go with J.Hader. Add Arcia at SS, Villar at 2b, Phillips at CF, Nottingham at C and Ray at LF. By the 2nd half of 2018 it would be a very interesting team to watch.

[Outlander]

Texas may be well ahead of its division right now but things can change in a matter of a couple weeks (take a look at Cleveland). Also Houston has gotten hot behind them. Both teams could use and have interest in Lucroy. Stearns can play them against each other to maximize the return as neither team wants the other to obtain Lucroy.

This is very true, I think all three of those AL teams will make a play for Lucroy and that can only benefit the Brewers. Nice that the Astros have been on fire as well. At one point I thought there might not be a contender that would see a big enough benefit to add Lucroy in exchange for the prospects the Brewers want. However, now if you don't make the move your team doesn't get better and your competition gets significantly better.

[Bnowell4evr]

I found a reasonable proposal from a Boston fan.

 

A package of Devers, Espinoza, Vazquez and maybe a couple of high-ceiling, low-probability fliers would put the Red Sox in a good position to land Lucroy (and a reliever like Will Smith or Jeremy Jeffress).

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/06/28/starting-pitching-problem-red-sox-also-need-bat-like-jonathan-lucroy

 

I'd be hard pressed to say no if the two flier types were guys like Roniel Raudes and Josh Okimey.

[Bnowell4evr]

The problem with that is the fact Texas is 10games ahead in their division. So now, I think Joey Gallo is untouchable.

I'm thinking a guy like Michael Matuella plus say Josh Morgan is enough to get Matt Moore. Leaving Texas with the ability to keep their top prospects.

 

How does sentence one lead to sentence two? They've given Gallo 1 plate appearance this year, so they haven't had a need for him. If anything, them doing well without his services demonstrates he's a disposable piece (this year) and should make him available in a trade for a guy like Lucroy.

 

I think it just depends on how much the Rangers want to upgrade/solidify their team and go for it this year. We have pieces to significantly bolster their already well put together team at catcher (Lucroy), rotation (Nelson/Guerra/Garza), bullpen (Jeffress/Smith), and/or bench (Hill/Carter) and they have a lot of enticing prospects we'd love to take off their hands in return. I don't think any other team can improve their roster to the extent the Brewers can, so if they're willing to deal some of their big prospects, we're in a position to make a deal happen.

 

 

From what I understand the Rangers refuse to part with Gallo because they see him as the future 1B with Moreland's contract ending after this season. They probably should be playing Gallo right now over him TBH. That might be a bigger improvement than Lucroy would be over their hodgepodge of catchers.

[A Swing and A Drive]

FYI, Rangers RHP Michael Matuella is injured again after a few appearances since coming off Tommy John surgery last summer. He's too much of a risk at this point to be included in a trade IMO.

[splitterpfj]

On the Lucroy to Boston article, Milwaukee has the talent on hand to get any prospect Boston has, and the Brewers could certainly fill multiple needs for the Sox.

 

The issue, of course, will be Boston's willingness to part with those guys.

 

Of the four, "uncouchables" (whaaaaatever) I think Devers and Espinoza are the easier two to get right now.

 

I'm not going to get into wild, unlikely speculation, but these two teams could match up for a real doozy if they wanted to.

[jerichoholicninja]

On the Lucroy to Boston article, Milwaukee has the talent on hand to get any prospect Boston has, and the Brewers could certainly fill multiple needs for the Sox.

 

The issue, of course, will be Boston's willingness to part with those guys.

 

Of the four, "uncouchables" (whaaaaatever) I think Devers and Espinoza are the easier two to get right now.

 

I'm not going to get into wild, unlikely speculation, but these two teams could match up for a real doozy if they wanted to.

 

Dembroski has yet to meet a prospect he didn't want to trade. In Detroit and in his first few months in Boston he's shown that he has no problem trading prospects. I see lots of posters saying that Boston will never go up so and so but with the new regime, being in contention, and the way some of their recent prospects have flopped I think everyone is in play.

[paul253]

Why lower your asking price? You set an asking price based on trying to get more than that players worth to your organization, not less

 

I'm not saying we're at that point yet, but you lower your asking price if nobody is willing to meet it. At some point his value hits it's peek and starts to go down.

 

Think about it this way. You know that in a year and a half your house is going to go into foreclosure and when it does you'll lose the house for nothing. You can list it for $350k all you want, but if pretty much everyone agrees it's a $290k house you're not getting $350k for it. You can hold out and hope someone gets desperate enough to give you $350k but when pretty much everyone knows you're going to soon lose the house for nothing it's not all that likely. The closer you get to that year and a half deadline the more realistic you have to be and accept that $290k is better than nothing. Again, I'm not suggesting we are there yet but if he's still on the team opening day next year I'd say you've missed your chance to maximize the return.

 

I understand why Stearns has a high asking price. He should. But we've seen many reports suggesting the asking price MAY be too high. I'm just saying that if that is indeed the case, I hope Stearns isn't too stubborn to accept reality because taking a comp pick for Lucroy would be an amazing fail.

[nate82]

I have soured on Devers a bit. I like Chavis at 3B more than I do Devers. I am not sure Devers is going to be able to hit enough to stay at 3B offensively and is probably better suited offensively at 2B.

 

Espinoza would be a real prize in any trade with the Red Sox. I believe adding in Nelson allows the Brewers to get Espinoza plus others. The Brewers and Red Sox match up nicely for a trade more so than any other team besides the Rangers.

[brewcrewdue80]

The Problem with Boston is that the need for Lucroy's bat isn't there. They lead all of Baseball in Runs scored a game. Lucroy's bat is a lot better than what Boston has at Catcher, but overall in Boston's batting order, He's going to fall in about 6th vs 8 or 9 of catcher currently. They need Pitching.

 

Yes, Like I said on Texas, I meant their current Lead, would make them not want to trade Gallo and keep him. Dodgers just acquired Bud Norris, and I expect Texas to find someone similar. Yu Darvish is nearing a return and he alone is a massive boost to a rotation. So I just believe after all this time, they'll crater and trade for Lucroy. They've not done so to this point, so why do it now?

 

I go back to the Indians as who, to me will desire Lucroy, when Stearns makes a solid offer to them. Looking at Fangraphs, Yan Gomes is having a poor year BABIP but then again his Line Drive% is sunken and his Ground Ball% has increased in its place. Not that his contract is expensive, but it's 3years guaranteed before you can buyout his option year. That contract will be a problem to move away from if he continues to vastly under produce offensively. Milwaukee can however suffice a poorly hitting catcher for 3years. Cleveland loses Napoli after the season and have a 12million option on Carlos Santana to decide whether to pick up or not. So you could catch Lucroy and play him at 1b/DH on his Non-Catching days next season if you're Cleveland. Lucroy says he wants to contend so an extension or accepting the QO after 2017 isn't out of the question knowing how great Cleveland's pitching staff is. I'd like to get Pitching in return and the Indians do have some Arms. But at same time, taking one of Zimmer or Frazier, while I hate the idea of another OF, would net the Crew a Regular for sure to plug in the lineup. Thinking of Braun departing. Then it's an Aiken or Mckenzie desire in Arm to pair with one of those two. Something like, Zimmer/Mckenzie or Frazier/Aiken. Toss in one more prospect in their 10-20 rankings and I'll be satisfied.

[brewmann04]

I agree we don't need any more OF in the chain .

[adambr2]

The Problem with Boston is that the need for Lucroy's bat isn't there. They lead all of Baseball in Runs scored a game. Lucroy's bat is a lot better than what Boston has at Catcher, but overall in Boston's batting order, He's going to fall in about 6th vs 8 or 9 of catcher currently. They need Pitching.

 

Yes, Like I said on Texas, I meant their current Lead, would make them not want to trade Gallo and keep him. Dodgers just acquired Bud Norris, and I expect Texas to find someone similar. Yu Darvish is nearing a return and he alone is a massive boost to a rotation. So I just believe after all this time, they'll crater and trade for Lucroy. They've not done so to this point, so why do it now?

 

I go back to the Indians as who, to me will desire Lucroy, when Stearns makes a solid offer to them. Looking at Fangraphs, Yan Gomes is having a poor year BABIP but then again his Line Drive% is sunken and his Ground Ball% has increased in its place. Not that his contract is expensive, but it's 3years guaranteed before you can buyout his option year. That contract will be a problem to move away from if he continues to vastly under produce offensively. Milwaukee can however suffice a poorly hitting catcher for 3years. Cleveland loses Napoli after the season and have a 12million option on Carlos Santana to decide whether to pick up or not. So you could catch Lucroy and play him at 1b/DH on his Non-Catching days next season if you're Cleveland. Lucroy says he wants to contend so an extension or accepting the QO after 2017 isn't out of the question knowing how great Cleveland's pitching staff is. I'd like to get Pitching in return and the Indians do have some Arms. But at same time, taking one of Zimmer or Frazier, while I hate the idea of another OF, would net the Crew a Regular for sure to plug in the lineup. Thinking of Braun departing. Then it's an Aiken or Mckenzie desire in Arm to pair with one of those two. Something like, Zimmer/Mckenzie or Frazier/Aiken. Toss in one more prospect in their 10-20 rankings and I'll be satisfied.

 

I guess I just kind of disagree with the logic. Even the best lineups, if you can improve it, will help improve your team overall, even if it doesn't address your weaknesses. It's like a team with 4 aces and a #5 in their rotation. They sure don't need another ace, but they still get a lot better if they get one. Boston's only concern should be how much better they get at catcher with Lucroy than Vasquez, and the answer is a lot. It's about as massive of an upgrade as they can make without improving the rotation.

 

There's a good article that illustrates my point up in post 105.

 

Junior Guerra might be an interesting add-on for extra value packaged with Lucroy to Boston.

[splitterpfj]

Here's a good article that illustrates my point.

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/06/28/starting-pitching-problem-red-sox-also-need-bat-like-jonathan-lucroy

 

This same article was linked higher up on the same page by another poster.

 

It's good stuff, I hope people will actually click on that and read it.

[UMBrewer]

I cant believe that article advocates Moncada in a deal for Lucroy. Sure the numbers add up, but he is the #1 prospect in baseball right now. Untouchable.

[MrTPlush]

I cant believe that article advocates Moncada in a deal for Lucroy. Sure the numbers add up, but he is the #1 prospect in baseball right now. Untouchable.

 

And they paid him A LOT of money. It just doesn't make sense. They aren't going to trade one of the best prospects in the game and basically just throw away over $50mil.

[Manty Brewer Fan]

Lets just do a blockbuster to end all blockbusters with Boston.

 

Braun

Nelson

Lucroy

Will Smith

for

Moncada

Benintendi

Espinoza

Devers

Raudes

[homer]

Kinda sucks Wilson Ramos decided to play like a big boy this year. Nationals have some good pitching prospects.

[MrTPlush]

Kinda sucks Wilson Ramos decided to play like a big boy this year. Nationals have some good pitching prospects.

 

Could say that about a lot of Lucroy suitors. Yes Lucroy is mashing pretty well, but unfortunately a lot of suitors are getting decent production from their catchers where they really aren't desperate. The ones getting horrible production, like the White Sox, just don't match up all that well.

[nate82]

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2016/06/28/starting-pitching-problem-red-sox-also-need-bat-like-jonathan-lucroy

 

This same article was linked higher up on the same page by another poster.

 

It's good stuff, I hope people will actually click on that and read it.

 

I would replace Devers with Michael Chavis. I like Chavis better than Devers as Chavis is more likely to stay at 3B than Devers is.

 

From the recent looks that I have seen of Devers on video and reading some scouting reports he sounds more like a 1B. Hopefully Devers is able to tap into his power potential because his defense at 3B is Ryan Braun like right now.

 

Chavis offensively reminds me a lot of a younger Rickie Weeks where all of his power potential is in his bat speed. Unlike Weeks though Chavis still needs to learn the strike zone and be more patient. Offensively he is probably more along a 15-20 HR a year type of a player with a lot of doubles.

 

Chavis defensively is a future gold glove caliber 3B he reminds me of Nolan Arenado defensively. He has a strong and accurate arm and great footwork at 3B like Arenado.

 

I wouldn't mind a trade like this:

 

Espinoza, Chavis, Ockimey, and Raudes for Lucroy and Smith.

 

Espinoza is obviously the headliner here with Chavis. Ockimey and Raudes could be big gambles I really like Raudes as he is only 18 and he already knows how to pitch. His stuff isn't there yet and he could add some more velocity to his fastball which currently sits in the low 90's though he works through the game around 88-92 but generally stays around the 88-90 mark. He should be able to through adding some strength add a few more MPH but his command is what is great as he has a great feel for 2 of his 3 pitches he just started throwing a change up a couple years ago. Raudes curveball is a plus potential pitch and he can throw the curveball where he wants. Raudes reminds me of a young Gallardo. If Raudes hits his potential you have a solid #1 or #2 type pitcher or at the worst you have a solid #5 type pitcher Mike Fiers comes to mind here.

 

I believe Raudes and Ockimey could be the real steals of this trade. Ockimey looks like he has some serious power potential he maybe the Red Sox player that is more untouchable than Espinoza or Devers. The reason Moncada is untouchable is due to how much the Red Sox have invested in him more so than his prospect ranking. Dombrowski though hasn't found a prospect that he won't trade in the right deal yet but I believe ownership would kill a deal that included Moncada in it due to the amount of money the Red Sox gave him. The only way the owners of the Red Sox would allow Moncada to be traded is if they were getting a lot of value coming back or at least half of what they gave Moncada to sign. If Harper or Trout are not coming to the Red Sox then Moncada is not going to be traded unless there is a significant amount of cash coming to the Red Sox.

[3and2Fastball]

Agree the Red Sox are unlikely to deal Moncada. I would prefer Andrew Benintendi over Devers or Chavis. Maybe throw in Devers & Chavis as a roll of the dice but if I'm dealing Lucroy I'd want Espinoza plus either Moncada or Andrew Benintendi.

 

Who cares if the Brewers have a lot of OF prospects? Benintendi likely has more potential than any of them.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=benint000and

[splitterpfj]

Who cares if the Brewers have a lot of OF prospects? Benintendi likely has more potential than any of them.

 

There's no doubt about it, the Brewers have some outfield prospects I really like, but I would trade any one of them for Benintendi.

[Austin Tatious]

Who cares if the Brewers have a lot of OF prospects? Benintendi likely has more potential than any of them.

 

There's no doubt about it, the Brewers have some outfield prospects I really like, but I would trade any one of them for Benintendi.

 

I totally agree that Benintendi is the kid to get. He's only 5'11 170 but Freddy Lynn was not big as a Boston outfielder. Similar size but Lynn could generate power and mash. Dombrowski is not afraid to make a big splash. You never know what can happen there.

 

Having said that, it will be very disappointing if Corey Ray doesn't become a Benintendi level talent. Benintendi was taken seventh in 2015; Ray fifth in 2016. It's incumbent on Ray to produce.

 

The college bats from 2015 ended up in double A by mid 2016. That means this time next year, Ray will need to be in Biloxi and acquitting himself nicely. There is a burden and expectation for getting $4 million as a college bat drafted high. That's the point in taking a college bat high.

[QuevedosTongue]

Who cares if the Brewers have a lot of OF prospects? Benintendi likely has more potential than any of them.

 

There's no doubt about it, the Brewers have some outfield prospects I really like, but I would trade any one of them for Benintendi.

 

I totally agree that Benintendi is the kid to get. He's only 5'11 170 but Freddy Lynn was not big as a Boston outfielder. Similar size but Lynn could generate power and mash. Dombrowski is not afraid to make a big splash. You never know what can happen there.

 

Having said that, it will be very disappointing if Corey Ray doesn't become a Benintendi level talent. Benintendi was taken seventh in 2015; Ray fifth in 2016. It's incumbent on Ray to produce.

 

The college bats from 2015 ended up in double A by mid 2016. That means this time next year, Ray will need to be in Biloxi and acquitting himself nicely. There is a burden and expectation for getting $4 million as a college bat drafted high. That's the point in taking a college bat high.

 

He doesn't HAVE to be in Biloxi and playing well by mid-season 2017, although it would make us all feel better, I'm sure. Development paths aren't linear, so comparing what other guys have done vs. what an individual does isn't worth much except in a general sense. If Ray doesn't make it out of A ball by mid-season next year we'll all be ready to write him off, but it wouldn't mean he was a bust at that point either. Although the odds of that being true would have gone up by quite a bit.

 

Really, I still die a little inside every time Nelson Cruz crushes another HR and can't help but think about him when someone isn't developing as fast as I think they should.