Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 3)

[bill hAll Star]

CHC: Not my favorite spot to trade Lucroy, but they have talent on the farm

Starting offer: Contreras, Happ, Cease, Mckinney

 

Contreras is already very good. I get the idea that the Cubs might want to strike now and win a World Series now, but I'm not even sure that Contreras is a downgrade from Lucroy. I'm not sure they'd even make a Contreras for Lucroy trade straight up.

[JohnBriggs12]

The pitching is too good by the time you get to the playoffs. And it's the whole reason the Gallo types don't win world series.

 

Very true. Branyan never made it as an everyday player because during his epic slumps, it was like having 2 pitchers in the lineup and one didn't bunt.

[pacopete4]

Just looking through some of the Rangers top prospects stat lines, there's not much to write home about in terms of how they are producing. Not one of them are dominating their level. Maybe the Rangers are a team to stay away from?

[MrTPlush]

Just looking through some of the Rangers top prospects stat lines, there's not much to write home about in terms of how they are producing. Not one of them are dominating their level. Maybe the Rangers are a team to stay away from?

 

I try not to think that way because I don't think it is that simple. A month or two ago Devers looked horrible and now he is smoking hot with a crisp stat line. Things can turn on a dime and prospects have down years. Age, level, league, etc. etc. all come into play and can effect a player's performance.

 

Obviously it feels good to get a top prospect who is mashing, but I don't think that should be a requirement. At the same time the Rangers prospect have been REALLY bad at the top. That should give any team pause. It is all about evaluating why they are struggling and if it is a long term worry or fixable.

[Madhawk23]

Honestly, I'm probably more intrigued with some of the Rangers prospects that aren't at the top of their rankings. Tavares, Mendez, Jurado, Demeritte, Guzman are all guys that I'd probably be more interested in targeting from the Rangers. Of course, if I'm DS I'd still probably want to have a "centerpiece" in the deal, in which case you'd probably want to get either a Gallo, Brinson, Tate or Ortiz.

[splitterpfj]

The Brewers are not, "staying away from" the Rangers, they are scouting the crap out of them. I don't know which guys Milwaukee likes, but there is certainly smoke.

 

On Gallo - don't compare him to Khris Davis. Yes, they both have big power, but Gallo also has strong OBP skills, and by the way, he has a BIG throwing arm - once clocked at 97 MPH. If he can cover enough ground to play in a corner, (which he may not be able to do) - he's instantly the best arm in the Brewers' OF. Davis has one MLB-worthy skill, Gallo has three, is much younger, and still has the chance to improve - Davis is at his peak right now.

 

TX didn't call him up because they also have Jurickson Profar sitting there, that's not a knock on Gallo, that's Jurickson Profar, who was the highest rated prospect anywhere before he got hurt - this is no insult or slap in the face.

 

Gallo's just weird, in that you don't see this skill set. Think about this - he has more power than any minor leaguer out there, and a strong OBP, because he doesn't chase a lot of stuff out of the strike zone .... and still, he'd be a threat to break any strikeout record you could find. That's "swing and miss" at an insane level.

 

He's a risk, absolutely, but he's also got unique talent. I'd rather get the best pitching prospect the Brewers can find - one that has the upside, but also some strong pro results, so I'm out on Aiken for Lucroy, I'd rather it was Atlanta, but I simply can't believe it will be.

 

I'm rooting for Cleveland right now, I like the quality of their prospects, and there's enough depth there to get more than one future MLB contributor.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I'd be on board with Lucroy for Gallo and a couple of the lower level arms the Brewers scouting department likes from the Rangers. The Rangers have done a great job signing International Free Agents over the past decade. The Brewers scouting department already poached a great player in RHP Marcos Diplan from the Rangers system in the Gallardo trade.

[Boomer5]

Gallo is 22 and playing at AAA this year and last . If he was the guy he would be up now in Arlington as they have a huge need for a guy like he is supposed to be.

 

They know something people here don't. Guys that's a huge red flag.

 

Would I take him? Yes as I value HR hitters in a big way. As the primary piece back from Luc? No.

 

He is far from a sure thing, and the Rangers agree, and we just gave away a sure thing in terms of MLB HR capability, so picking him up doesn't make sense.

[MrTPlush]

Or maybe they see Gallo as a guy who won't make a big impact immediately? Not everyone is a rookie all star. Also maybe Profar is just simply a way better hitter right now.

[reillymcshane]

We've said this before, but Cleveland makes so much sense for Lucroy.

 

I know Cleveland doesn't deal their young talent, but it just makes so much sense right now. If they could get Luc and a reliever from us, it really solidifies them through 2017 - and at a reasonable price.

 

I'd start with Frazier and a pitcher, such as Aiken, Sheffield, Clevinger or McKenzie.

 

Catcher Francisco Mejia is an interesting prospect as well.

 

I like Frazier better than Bradley or Zimmer, but that is just me.

 

It just works so well for Cleveland. They have a need in the bullpen, and Luc would be a huge upgrade at catcher. They are not a perfect team with issues at 3B, plus lack of OF depth. However, if Brantley can come back (a big question) that would really help out the situation (Chisenhall could then get more time at 3B).

 

Luc would just solidify their offense so much - perfect for them. Also, it's been said he's not a 'big city' type guy - meaning he probably would fit well with Cleveland - not a high profile/pressure place, the team doesn't seem to have a bunch of divas. I think Luc would slide in well both on the field and in the clubhouse.

[IndyCrew]

I like Frazier better than Zimmer too, but I think Zimmer would be the guy we could get.

[UMBrewer]

We've said this before, but Cleveland makes so much sense for Lucroy.

 

I know Cleveland doesn't deal their young talent, but it just makes so much sense right now. If they could get Luc and a reliever from us, it really solidifies them through 2017 - and at a reasonable price.

 

I'd start with Frazier and a pitcher, such as Aiken, Sheffield, Clevinger or McKenzie.

 

Catcher Francisco Mejia is an interesting prospect as well.

 

I like Frazier better than Bradley or Zimmer, but that is just me.

 

It just works so well for Cleveland. They have a need in the bullpen, and Luc would be a huge upgrade at catcher. They are not a perfect team with issues at 3B, plus lack of OF depth. However, if Brantley can come back (a big question) that would really help out the situation (Chisenhall could then get more time at 3B).

 

Luc would just solidify their offense so much - perfect for them. Also, it's been said he's not a 'big city' type guy - meaning he probably would fit well with Cleveland - not a high profile/pressure place, the team doesn't seem to have a bunch of divas. I think Luc would slide in well both on the field and in the clubhouse.

 

 

Id be thrilled with Frazier, one of those pitchers and Mejia.

 

but as the previous poster points out Frazier is probably untouchable, and I think Aiken is as well, especially if you get Zimmer.

 

Zimmer/one of the 3 pitchers/Mejia is a great trade too.

[MadThinker88]

Let's get realistic: to get talent one has to give talent. That said, market size, contract status and years of control all play a factor.

 

Lucroy is talented and has a very reasonable contract. However, he only has a year plus of control remaining. Cleveland has two other defensive focused catchers, both younger then Lucroy and both under contract/ control for multiple years beyond this season.

 

Given the need for catching in the absence of Lucroy, it makes sense for the Brewers to get one of Roberto Perez (helps in the now and moving forward) or Francisco Mejia (top 100 prospect, helps in a few seasons).

 

The cost for starting pitching is extremely high, so getting it at any level chews up worth. It took Drew

Pomeranz to get the kid from Boston, and that was 1 for 1. I can foresee Cleveland saying ok to 1 pitcher from the full season minor league rosters and 1 more from short season ranks as "lottery ticket". I can tell u now, forget McKenzie as he is deemed among the handful of untouchables.

 

Would a package of F. Mejia, J. Sheffield (another top 100 prospect) and Juan Hillman (as the lottery ticket) interest people or not??

[splitterpfj]

Let's get realistic: to get talent one has to give talent. That said, market size, contract status and years of control all play a factor.

 

Lucroy is talented and has a very reasonable contract. However, he only has a year plus of control remaining. Cleveland has two other defensive focused catchers, both younger then Lucroy and both under contract/ control for multiple years beyond this season.

 

Given the need for catching in the absence of Lucroy, it makes sense for the Brewers to get one of Roberto Perez (helps in the now and moving forward) or Francisco Mejia (top 100 prospect, helps in a few seasons).

 

The cost for starting pitching is extremely high, so getting it at any level chews up worth. It took Drew

Pomeranz to get the kid from Boston, and that was 1 for 1. I can foresee Cleveland saying ok to 1 pitcher from the full season minor league rosters and 1 more from short season ranks as "lottery ticket". I can tell u now, forget McKenzie as he is deemed among the handful of untouchables.

 

Would a package of F. Mejia, J. Sheffield (another top 100 prospect) and Juan Hillman (as the lottery ticket) interest people or not??

 

To your question, I can't answer that, because I don't know what the Brewers think of Sheffield. If they like him enough, sure, I could see that happening, but trust me, if the Brewers decide McKenzie's the guy, they will get him, or they will not trade Lucroy to Cleveland.

 

We all know, fans always overvalue their own guys - all fans, of all teams, so no one should take offense to that. I'm sure Brewers fans think Lucroy will bring more than he actually will, and I'm sure whoever the Brewers get for him will cause some anxiety from the other fanbase. That's just what happens.

 

If we're getting fully, "realistic", Cleveland has a very real shot at the World Series, and Cleveland has a huge hole at catcher right now - no one outside of Ohio would say otherwise. Milwaukee has an All-Star available at the position - everything I've said here has kept the Indians' top four prospects out of the conversation, and now you want to add a fifth player to the, "untouchable" list - that seems a bit unlikely to me.

 

"We want your guy who both hits and defends at an all-star level, who fits a thin position overall, and an obvious need on our roster at a time when we might win our first World Series since 1948. We can afford his contract with ease, we could trade him in the off-season, sign him to an extension, or receive a draft pick at the end of the first round if he leaves after next season. You can't have any of our five best prospects."

 

Nothing about that conversation should make Indians fans happy, and this is coming from a Brewers fan who is trying to be considerate of the longterm needs of that franchise.

 

Edit: To the Indians fans who have been with us during this trade season - those posting, and those lurking - I am sincerely rooting for your team to win the World Series this year. Our two markets have too much in common for me to underestimate how long the odds are for either of our teams to win against baseball's asinine, slanted financial system.

 

The Royals did it last year, and the Indians can do it this year. I won't bicker, I want to see Lucroy and Will Smith to Cleveland, and I want to see plenty of your young talent become part of the Brewers' rebuild. I hope the two front offices can match this up and do it.

 

If you do wind up with Jonathan Lucroy - you will love him.

 

-Todd

[brewcrewdue80]

Cleveland doesnt have to give up a catcher. They can trade Lucroy this offseason and go back to Gomes/Perez.. Probably get 2 prospects of the top 3 in value they would give up back. Any team that acquires him could use him as a rental for this year and trade him this offseason. Lets say Texas GM decides not going to put up with Gallo, and Luis Ortiz weight problem. You know disliking your prospects. He hears Cleveland offered Bradley and McKenzie. He likes them more. But Stearns liked Gallo/Ortiz more. Get on the phone this offseason and say Hey You can have Lucroy for Bradley/McKenzie.

 

Lucroy isnt a rental, and can be flipped after this season. Atlanta likes him. In that scenario above youve sent McKenzie or Ortiz and now acquire Allard.

Cleveland would benefit this season more than any other team, so why not grab him? If youre honestly upset about trading prospects for him, trade him this off season. Acquire some of what you gave up back.

[dacrew101]

Two Cleveland championships this year would be insane, now about that football team..

[mattyo]

Let's get realistic: to get talent one has to give talent. That said, market size, contract status and years of control all play a factor.

 

Lucroy is talented and has a very reasonable contract. However, he only has a year plus of control remaining. Cleveland has two other defensive focused catchers, both younger then Lucroy and both under contract/ control for multiple years beyond this season.

 

Given the need for catching in the absence of Lucroy, it makes sense for the Brewers to get one of Roberto Perez (helps in the now and moving forward) or Francisco Mejia (top 100 prospect, helps in a few seasons).

 

The cost for starting pitching is extremely high, so getting it at any level chews up worth. It took Drew

Pomeranz to get the kid from Boston, and that was 1 for 1. I can foresee Cleveland saying ok to 1 pitcher from the full season minor league rosters and 1 more from short season ranks as "lottery ticket". I can tell u now, forget McKenzie as he is deemed among the handful of untouchables.

 

Would a package of F. Mejia, J. Sheffield (another top 100 prospect) and Juan Hillman (as the lottery ticket) interest people or not??

 

 

I always laugh hearing about Clevelands "untouchables". We have been told now that their top 4(!!!) prospects are untouchable, and now were adding another. You are trying to trade for an all star player, under control for a year and half, cheap as hell, in a spot where you have a black hole in your lineup. If you think you are getting that player without giving up at least 2 of those untouchables, you are simply wrong.

 

If somehow Lucroy ends up in Cleveland within the next week, they will have given some of these "untouchables".

 

 

Edit - No, that prospect package would not interest me. Post below me is definitely more fair.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

My goodness Cleveland everyone cannot be untouchable. The goal of a trade is not to "fleece" one another, but to get equal value for different needs and organizational outlooks. Being realistic, Cleveland would be getting an all star catcher that when inserted into the lineup would be 2nd on the team in OPS & batting. Not to mention his inexpensive salary and TO for next season. I know everyone likes Yan from seasons past, but he's been an absolute detriment at the plate contributing a oWAR of -1.2. Couple that with injuries and the outlook looks bleak for him. So that brings me to my point that when you have a shot at winning a World Series you take it! Nothing is a given... especially in baseball.

 

Personally I am in the realistic camp that thinks Cleveland should hold onto both Zimmer and Fraizer because their OF figures to need them both in the near future depending on Brantley's recovery and Naquin's very possible regression. So that brings us to a realistic proposal that fits both teams. Based on Stearns' blueprint I figure him to target low level, young talent. Francisco Mejia is a name that comes up a lot on this forum, but I think it would be foolish for Cleveland to get rid of him. Their catcher cupboard is about as bare as ours was 2 years ago. So Cleveland's organizational strength is obviously pitching, and that is where the Brewers' weakness lies. My proposal would target.

 

Bradley 19

Aiken 19

Mckenzie 18

 

Two top 100 guys and an interesting projectable arm for Lucroy and Smith. The beauty of this is that all of these kids are low level and far away for the majors which won't impact the immediate future for the Indians by any means. There also still LOADED with arms after a deal like this is completed.

 

Curious to hear any of your thoughts.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Let's get realistic: to get talent one has to give talent. That said, market size, contract status and years of control all play a factor.

 

Lucroy is talented and has a very reasonable contract. However, he only has a year plus of control remaining. Cleveland has two other defensive focused catchers, both younger then Lucroy and both under contract/ control for multiple years beyond this season.

 

Given the need for catching in the absence of Lucroy, it makes sense for the Brewers to get one of Roberto Perez (helps in the now and moving forward) or Francisco Mejia (top 100 prospect, helps in a few seasons).

 

The cost for starting pitching is extremely high, so getting it at any level chews up worth. It took Drew

Pomeranz to get the kid from Boston, and that was 1 for 1. I can foresee Cleveland saying ok to 1 pitcher from the full season minor league rosters and 1 more from short season ranks as "lottery ticket". I can tell u now, forget McKenzie as he is deemed among the handful of untouchables.

 

Would a package of F. Mejia, J. Sheffield (another top 100 prospect) and Juan Hillman (as the lottery ticket) interest people or not??

 

 

I always laugh hearing about Clevelands "untouchables". We have been told now that their top 4(!!!) prospects are untouchable, and now were adding another. You are trying to trade for an all star player, under control for a year and half, cheap as hell, in a spot where you have a black hole in your lineup. If you think you are getting that player without giving up at least 2 of those untouchables, you are simply wrong.

 

If somehow Lucroy ends up in Cleveland within the next week, they will have given some of these "untouchables".

I think some of them took that Dan O'Dowd proposal and ran with it.

[wildcat2237]

My goodness Cleveland everyone cannot be untouchable. The goal of a trade is not to "fleece" one another, but to get equal value for different needs and organizational outlooks. Being realistic, Cleveland would be getting an all star catcher that when inserted into the lineup would be 2nd on the team in OPS & batting. Not to mention his inexpensive salary and TO for next season. I know everyone likes Yan from seasons past, but he's been an absolute detriment at the plate contributing a oWAR of -1.2. Couple that with injuries and the outlook looks bleak for him. So that brings me to my point that when you have a shot at winning a World Series you take it! Nothing is a given... especially in baseball.

 

Personally I am in the realistic camp that thinks Cleveland should hold onto both Zimmer and Fraizer because their OF figures to need them both in the near future depending on Brantley's recovery and Naquin's very possible regression. So that brings us to a realistic proposal that fits both teams. Based on Stearns' blueprint I figure him to target low level, young talent. Francisco Mejia is a name that comes up a lot on this forum, but I think it would be foolish for Cleveland to get rid of him. Their catcher cupboard is about as bare as ours was 2 years ago. So Cleveland's organizational strength is obviously pitching, and that is where the Brewers' weakness lies. My proposal would target.

 

Bradley 19

Aiken 19

Mckenzie 18

 

Two top 100 guys and an interesting projectable arm for Lucroy and Smith. The beauty of this is that all of these kids are low level and far away for the majors which won't impact the immediate future for the Indians by any means. There also still LOADED with arms after a deal like this is completed.

 

Curious to hear any of your thoughts.

 

I agree with you that the Brewers will want pitching for Lucroy and I agree with you that the Brewers will be looking at highly talented young players for Lucroy.

 

However, I wouldn't do the above deal because I don't like Bobby Bradley. If I'm doing a deal with the Indians, Mejia is the guy I want.

[Mr Southpaw]

My goodness Cleveland everyone cannot be untouchable. The goal of a trade is not to "fleece" one another, but to get equal value for different needs and organizational outlooks. Being realistic, Cleveland would be getting an all star catcher that when inserted into the lineup would be 2nd on the team in OPS & batting. Not to mention his inexpensive salary and TO for next season. I know everyone likes Yan from seasons past, but he's been an absolute detriment at the plate contributing a oWAR of -1.2. Couple that with injuries and the outlook looks bleak for him. So that brings me to my point that when you have a shot at winning a World Series you take it! Nothing is a given... especially in baseball.

 

Personally I am in the realistic camp that thinks Cleveland should hold onto both Zimmer and Fraizer because their OF figures to need them both in the near future depending on Brantley's recovery and Naquin's very possible regression. So that brings us to a realistic proposal that fits both teams. Based on Stearns' blueprint I figure him to target low level, young talent. Francisco Mejia is a name that comes up a lot on this forum, but I think it would be foolish for Cleveland to get rid of him. Their catcher cupboard is about as bare as ours was 2 years ago. So Cleveland's organizational strength is obviously pitching, and that is where the Brewers' weakness lies. My proposal would target.

 

Bradley 19

Aiken 19

Mckenzie 18

 

Two top 100 guys and an interesting projectable arm for Lucroy and Smith. The beauty of this is that all of these kids are low level and far away for the majors which won't impact the immediate future for the Indians by any means. There also still LOADED with arms after a deal like this is completed.

 

Curious to hear any of your thoughts.

 

I agree with you that the Brewers will want pitching for Lucroy and I agree with you that the Brewers will be looking at highly talented young players for Lucroy.

 

However, I wouldn't do the above deal because I don't like Bobby Bradley. If I'm doing a deal with the Indians, Mejia is the guy I want.

 

I would not substitute Mejia for Bradley, I would just add him to the list...

 

Bradley 19

Aiken 19

Mckenzie 18

Mejia

 

for

 

Lucroy

Smith

[Boomer5]

Or maybe they see Gallo as a guy who won't make a big impact immediately? Not everyone is a rookie all star. Also maybe Profar is just simply a way better hitter right now.

 

Nah. They also signed Beltre thru 2018. Gallo isn't the guy.

 

Think Mark Reynolds or Russel Branyon, not Dunn. He's a better trade for Smith than Luc.

[Boomer5]

My goodness Cleveland everyone cannot be untouchable. The goal of a trade is not to "fleece" one another, but to get equal value for different needs and organizational outlooks. Being realistic, Cleveland would be getting an all star catcher that when inserted into the lineup would be 2nd on the team in OPS & batting. Not to mention his inexpensive salary and TO for next season. I know everyone likes Yan from seasons past, but he's been an absolute detriment at the plate contributing a oWAR of -1.2. Couple that with injuries and the outlook looks bleak for him. So that brings me to my point that when you have a shot at winning a World Series you take it! Nothing is a given... especially in baseball.

 

Personally I am in the realistic camp that thinks Cleveland should hold onto both Zimmer and Fraizer because their OF figures to need them both in the near future depending on Brantley's recovery and Naquin's very possible regression. So that brings us to a realistic proposal that fits both teams. Based on Stearns' blueprint I figure him to target low level, young talent. Francisco Mejia is a name that comes up a lot on this forum, but I think it would be foolish for Cleveland to get rid of him. Their catcher cupboard is about as bare as ours was 2 years ago. So Cleveland's organizational strength is obviously pitching, and that is where the Brewers' weakness lies. My proposal would target.

 

Bradley 19

Aiken 19

Mckenzie 18

 

Two top 100 guys and an interesting projectable arm for Lucroy and Smith. The beauty of this is that all of these kids are low level and far away for the majors which won't impact the immediate future for the Indians by any means. There also still LOADED with arms after a deal like this is completed.

 

Curious to hear any of your thoughts.

 

Bradley and Aiken plus a sweetener for Luc makes sense. I'd want Mejia because Nottingham isn't going to catch at the MLB level and I don't have a good feel for the guys we just drafted.

 

Smith and JJ can bring back a big package by themselves based on the reliever market and teams copying the Royals model

[Eye Black]

A few articles with a speculative look at trading Jonathan Lucroy...

 

Very interesting exercise from Baseball Prospectus, The GM Trade Game! Trading Jonathan Lucroy

 

*****

 

Fangraphs with Predicting the Trade Deadline Moves

 

*****

 

CBS Sports Dayn Perry looks at the significance of trading for a catcher this time of year, Amid Jonathan Lucroy trade rumors, what trading for a catcher mid-season means

[beekay414]

Or maybe they see Gallo as a guy who won't make a big impact immediately? Not everyone is a rookie all star. Also maybe Profar is just simply a way better hitter right now.

 

Nah. They also signed Beltre thru 2018. Gallo isn't the guy.

 

Think Mark Reynolds or Russel Branyon, not Dunn. He's a better trade for Smith than Luc.

 

Methinks you don't have a very good feel on Gallo. He's not blocked next season because he'll be able to slot into LF pretty easily even if they place options at 1B/DH. The Rangers aren't going to keep trotting out Ryan Rua in LF. You also keep mentioning Branyan and Reynolds yet Gallo can do something they can't and that's play defense. Those guys were able to put up 2 and 3 win seasons while being defensive sieves. Gallo put up a 0.6 fWAR in 36 games because of his defense in left field. Gallo is fine.