Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 3)

[MrTPlush]

Seeing that there was literally no scuttlebutt before the Aaron Hill trade a week ago, my guess is that DS is keeping things very close to the vest with all of these trade discussions.

 

That is because Aaron Hill was a no name. No one cares about following Aaron Hill and where he will be traded to in the baseball media world. Not really comparable to Lucroy.

 

It is interesting Lucroy rumors haven't existed. At least Braun has had his name connected to a team recently(Giants).

[trwi7]

I don't think you'd have to add Jeffress or Smith to that deal. If they were adamant about getting a reliever, give them Thornburg. No reason to add valuable pieces in Jeffress/Smith to a deal where you're not getting a franchise caliber player back. Sheffield, Clevinger and McKenzie is a deal alone that you ask for Lucroy. Adding in Mejia isn't really worth Smith/Jeffress to me.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

I don't understand why you're saying Thornburg isn't valuable. He's been awesome and is more valuable than Smith to me.

[splitterpfj]

A package of Sheffield, Clevinger, McKenzie and Mejia would be ponying up. That is 3 top 100 guys plus McKenzie who imo is a better prospect than either Sheffield or Clevinger in terms of upside. I honestly think that would be too much from the Indians for Lucroy and a reliever (even a good one). There is only one reliever on the market that is worth a top 100 guy and that is Miller.

 

Yes, it absolutely would be "ponying up", and most likely, Cleveland would not do it, but none of us know what the current price is for really good bullpen arms with team control either - something like this is not impossible.

 

My guess is, Milwaukee would insist on McKenzie, and Cleveland would insist on pulling one of the others out, replacing someone with a lower prospect, or even two if they were kids all the way at the bottom (not in talent, in pro ball).

[MrTPlush]

I don't think you'd have to add Jeffress or Smith to that deal. If they were adamant about getting a reliever, give them Thornburg. No reason to add valuable pieces in Jeffress/Smith to a deal where you're not getting a franchise caliber player back. Sheffield, Clevinger and McKenzie is a deal alone that you ask for Lucroy. Adding in Mejia isn't really worth Smith/Jeffress to me.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

I don't understand why you're saying Thornburg isn't valuable. He's been awesome and is more valuable than Smith to me.

 

I think Smith has more value, but I agree on not understanding why people on this board don't like Tyler Thornburg.

[nate82]

is anyone aware of any real rumors surrounding Lucroy? For as strong a season he has had, I have not heard anything at all.

 

The last real rumor about Lucroy was in the off season with the Cubs and the Cubs looking for a 3rd team to trade with to get Lucroy. The Cubs did not want to trade any of their prospects to the Brewers.

[1992casey]

Isn't "real rumor" somewhat of an oxymoron?

[nate82]

Isn't "real rumor" somewhat of an oxymoron?

 

It is but that was the last credible rumor

[brewmann04]

I was just curious if DS does get an offer he likes from another does Stearns call the other so called interested team to see if they can make him a better offer.

[MrTPlush]

I was just curious if DS does get an offer he likes from another does Stearns call the other so called interested team to see if they can make him a better offer.

 

If he gets an offer he really likes, like hard to pass up, he would then ask for final offers. For instance if that Indians offer earlier in the thread was offered DS would give other teams 24/48 hours to up theirs or he would be an Indian.

 

Of course a team could say "take it or leave it" forcing Stearns to make a decision without asking other teams, but that probably isn't a great tactic in the baseball world.

[MrTPlush]

I was just curious if DS does get an offer he likes from another does Stearns call the other so called interested team to see if they can make him a better offer.

 

If he gets an offer he really likes, like hard to pass up, he would then ask for final offers. For instance if that Indians offer earlier in the thread was offered DS would give other teams 24/48 hours to up theirs or he would be an Indian.

 

Of course a team could say "take it or leave it" forcing Stearns to make a decision without asking other teams, but that probably isn't a great tactic in the baseball world.

[brewmann04]

Thanks for your help I was just curious.

[jjfanec]

Mlb trade rumors with a lucroy update

 

"An unusually high number of scouts (18) recently took in a Class-A Rookie League Game for the Rangers, leading FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal to wonder if a trade is on the way. Specifically, the Rangers and Brewers could match up in a deal for catcher Jonathan Lucroy, Rosenthal suggests, with a scout informing him that Milwaukee has been observing Texas’ system. Brewers general manager David Stearns has not been averse to acquiring teenage prospects in the past, writes Rosenthal, who lists 17-year-old outfielder Leody Taveras and 18-year-old shortstop Anderson Tejada as a couple of the Rangers’ top Arizona League players. The Rangers have drawn connections since the offseason to Lucroy, an All-Star backstop who’s signed for cheap through next season."

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/quick-pits-groome-red-sox-lucroy-chapman.html

[MadThinker88]

To all those suggesting these multi player prospect packages from Cleveland to Milwaukee for Lucroy,

 

Consider the trade history/ track record of the Indians. They RARELY deal packages of prospects for major league talent. I found two... 2 such trades they made in the last 10 years.

In Dec2008 they sent away Chris Archer & 2 other pieces (all pitchers) to the Cubs for Mark DeRosa and as the 2009 fell apart, flipped DeRosa for 2 pitching prospects from the Cardinals (Chris Perez & Jess Todd).

The other deal was in 2011 at the deadline. 3 pitching prospects including 2 first round selections (Alex White and Drew Pomeranz) and catching prospect to Colorado for Ubaldo Jimenez.

 

Is it possible they put together a package for Lucroy? Yes. Just as it is possible one of us wins the next mega millions drawing if we bought a ticket. I suspect the odds of it happening are about the same.

 

I've written and suggested on this board that Will Smith is a more likely target for the Tribe. I stand by that still.

[Eye Black]

It's gotten buried in this thread now, but the Rosenthal speculation was posted and subsequently discussed in both post #156 as well as post #190.

 

While it could certainly turn out to be a case of "where there is smoke, there is fire", I got the sense it was also very much speculative on Rosenthal's part in a couple of ways:

 

1) The Brewers were far from the only team with a scouting presence at the game. They did say the Brewers had multiple scouts, I would be somewhat curious if that means 2, 3, 4, etc.?

 

2) There are obviously other Brewers players the Rangers could potentially be interested in outside of Lucroy.

 

It is nice to hear the Brewers scouts are doing their due diligence on the Rookie League prospects, a level where seemingly quality scouting can help identify future elite talent before they become more prominent prospects.

[IndyCrew]

As excited as I am about the idea of getting top tier prospects for Lucroy, I'm a little worried we aren't going to get a great package like we got for Gomez/Fiers.

 

I don't want Sterns to panic and lower his value of Lucroy. If he isn't traded at the deadline, it tells me that the offers for him weren't good enough. I'd be more disappointed if we got a mediocre package than if we hang on to him all year and try again in the offseason.

 

Heck, I think people are even undervaluing the comp pick. If we happen to have a bad season, get a comp for Lucroy, and get a competitive balance Comp A, we'd have a massive pool which could net us a couple of top ten guys. Plus, we'd get 1.5 years of Lucroy helping the younger guys ease into their roles.

[beekay414]

I don't understand why you're saying Thornburg isn't valuable. He's been awesome and is more valuable than Smith to me.

 

Thornburg's fine. I just don't believe he has the same type of value that Smith and Jeffress do due to both Smith and Jeffress being high leverage relievers and Thornburg mainly holding down the middle innings to sometimes 8th inning spots. They all have the same amount of team control left so, and this is pure opinion (obviously), the deciding factor on value would be both Jeffress and Smith holding down high leverage spots. Thornburg has done it some this year but he doesn't have the track record Jeffress and Smith do. They all retain value but I think the price on Smith and Jeffress alone would end up being higher than Thornburg alone. That's why I'd rather throw Thornburg in with Luc than Smith/Jeffress. I just think Smith/Jeffress could bring us more on their own than Thornburg.

 

Again, just my $0.02.

[Jenkins5]

How about a:

 

Lucroy

For

Mckenzie, Mejia, Hillman, & a wild card?

 

We know DS loves guys who throw strikes & get on base. Hillman & Mckenzie are extremely young, green, projectable & most important can pitch/throw strikes. Mejia is a high average & obp guy who will likely be a top catching prospect sooner than later.

 

Diaz is a solid AAA 3b option, not much pop but lives on base. Chang has upside & we know DS loves 2b/SS players.

 

Love what Bradley offers but boy 109 Ks half way through the season. Only hitting .245. So many pluses but could be Carter 2.0. Young for level & still .380 obp but has his red flags. Aiken is shaking off rust but hasn't been sharp. I'd still gladly roll dice on him. Cleveringer fits the last few trades. Really wanted Kaminsky last year for Lind but boy Ks have disappeared & BBs are high. Frazier isn't the athlete Zimmer is but I'd take him. Zimmer when he makes contact kills ball but Ks are through the roof. Frazier is younger & best overall hitter imo

 

Don't think Clevland will do a trade for Lucroy but system has tons of exciting options for the to go out & buy if they wanted to.

[MrTPlush]

Couple thoughts IndyCrew:

 

1. We all need to take a breather. There is a long way to go before the deadline. Things have yet to really pick up, though things do tend to start moving after the All Star game. If we rewind a full year it was no different with Gomez and he was actually having a bad year unlike Lucroy.

 

2. Even the worst offer will be better than a comp pick. Lucroy is not going to be a Brewers come October of next year.

[FVBrewerFan]

To all those suggesting these multi player prospect packages from Cleveland to Milwaukee for Lucroy,

 

Consider the trade history/ track record of the Indians. They RARELY deal packages of prospects for major league talent. I found two... 2 such trades they made in the last 10 years.

In Dec2008 they sent away Chris Archer & 2 other pieces (all pitchers) to the Cubs for Mark DeRosa and as the 2009 fell apart, flipped DeRosa for 2 pitching prospects from the Cardinals (Chris Perez & Jess Todd).

The other deal was in 2011 at the deadline. 3 pitching prospects including 2 first round selections (Alex White and Drew Pomeranz) and catching prospect to Colorado for Ubaldo Jimenez.

 

Is it possible they put together a package for Lucroy? Yes. Just as it is possible one of us wins the next mega millions drawing if we bought a ticket. I suspect the odds of it happening are about the same.

 

I've written and suggested on this board that Will Smith is a more likely target for the Tribe. I stand by that still.

 

Except the Indians haven't been in this position the past 10 years. This season they have three reasons to make a major deal. 1) A legit contender. 2) Loaded system. 3) Fan base that needs desperately to be won over.

 

I don't think they're most likely trade partner for Lucroy. But to compare it to winning the lottery is beyond hyperbole.

[Madhawk23]

And...wouldn't it be ironic if the Indians were our trading partner for Lucroy, considering it was these two teams that struck a major deal back in 2008 when it was the Brewers that were in desperation to finally make it back to the postseason and sent a big package for CC. Desperate teams will sometimes do things that they normally wouldn't do, and may even overpay to get what they need to put them over the top. Let's hope we find a desperate team here in the next couple of weeks (maybe it's CLE) that pony's up a big haul for Luc.

[brewcrewdue80]

OK - if Texas offered the following deal, would you accept if you were DS:

 

Texas gets: Lucroy & either Jeffress/Smith

 

Brewers get: Brinson, Taveras, either Yohander Mendez/Ariel Jurado, either Ronald Guzman/Travis Demeritte

 

Would you pull the trigger on this deal? Guzman and Demeritte both were ranked in the 20's in the Rangers system in the MLB.com preseason rankings, yet both just made the Futures game after putting up good numbers in the 1st half of their seasons. Is this a fair return for Luc and one of our two premier relief pitchers, or does one side laugh the other off the phone? Curious for others thoughts on this trade offer.

 

I'd put up with that deal for Lucroy alone and that's only if it's the best offer out there last minute before deadline. Adding Smith/Jeffress Is requiring Gallo vs Brinson, adding Tate/Ortiz Really both And then Tavares and Ronald Guzman.

 

 

Smith or Jeffress are worth a top 100 if not a top 75 prospect minimum on their own. Lucroy has his QO, that's worth a top 100-125 prospect on its own. Then you add in his value both in money and as a player for acquisition. Team control/value on Smith/Jeffress. 3 of their top 5 plus 2others for an All-Star/#1 voiced Trade Candidate this season many times over+RPs that come with 3years team control and Closer worthy production.

 

Brinson isn't exciting to me, I fear more failure than prosper. Mazara was the Prosper only no failure concerns. Getting Smith or Jeffress is acquiring 3+years of what are your High Floor value hopefully in Tate or Ortiz. But now, Guaranteed vs. Hopefully. Tavares is young enough to be an afterthought in Texas value talk. Years away, we can draft another Tavares with the QO pick we get if Lucroy leaves. Guzman, is just a position desire kick in. You can probably add any other non top 15 Ranger prospect, but that kick in needs to be there. Because 3 for 4 is not enough return value to Milwaukee. The 5th evens it out taking on prospects for Proven Players+Comp Pick.

[paul253]

And...wouldn't it be ironic if the Indians were our trading partner for Lucroy, considering it was these two teams that struck a major deal back in 2008 when it was the Brewers that were in desperation to finally make it back to the postseason and sent a big package for CC.

 

What's even more ironic is that Cleveland actually could have gotten Lucroy in the Sabathia deal. Along with Laporta and the pitchers they had a choice of four players (I think it was a ptbnl type thing). The options were Cain, Brantley, Lucroy or Taylor Green if I'm remembering correctly.

[And That]

1) The Brewers were far from the only team with a scouting presence at the game. They did say the Brewers had multiple scouts, I would be somewhat curious if that means 2, 3, 4, etc.?

I think which scouts were there would be more telling than how many. If Ryan Thompson, Cory Melvin, and Taylor Green were there, who knows what they were looking at. If Zack Minasian and Dick Groch were there, that might be smoke.

[fondybrewfan]

Is that Taylor Green the Taylor Green? I didn't know he had become a scout.

[And That]

Is that Taylor Green the Taylor Green? I didn't know he had become a scout.

It is!