Peralta to AAA

[sveumrules]

Wily at Colorado Springs? That straight fastball is going to get crushed in that thin air. Can't see how CS can help anyone figure things out.

I don't think a sinker can ever be called a straight fastball. His certainly isn't. His problem isn't due to his fastball being too straight. It's a combination of him throwing it in the wrong location and his secondary pitches haven't come around.

 

For what it's worth, PitchFX has Peralta throwing both two seam & four seam fastballs. The biggest issue does seem to be the slider, though. When Wily was decent in 2013 & 2014 he was getting positive results on the slider (+6.2 & +2.3), the last two years those results have cratered (-2.6 in 2015 & -6.8 this year in only 66 innings).

[Thurston Fluff]

Wily at Colorado Springs? That straight fastball is going to get crushed in that thin air. Can't see how CS can help anyone figure things out.

I don't think a sinker can ever be called a straight fastball. His certainly isn't. His problem isn't due to his fastball being too straight. It's a combination of him throwing it in the wrong location and his secondary pitches haven't come around.

 

For what it's worth, PitchFX has Peralta throwing both two seam & four seam fastballs. The biggest issue does seem to be the slider, though. When Wily was decent in 2013 & 2014 he was getting positive results on the slider (+6.2 & +2.3), the last two years those results have cratered (-2.6 in 2015 & -6.8 this year in only 66 innings).

 

His number one pitch is his sinker. His second pitch is his slider. The other two are more or less afterthoughts that he throws a handful of times a game. If he relies on those two pitches about 90% of the time the idea that his straight fastball is the problem is pretty hard to believe.

[sveumrules]

Maybe it's a classification issue, but PitchFX has Peralta throwing his 4 seamer 34.4% of the time, his 2 seamer 32.2% of the time, his slider 27.5% of the time & his change up 5.9% of the time for his career so it would seem he throws his 4 & 2 seamers with similar frequency, at least according to the high powered cameras & computers.

[rickh150]

I'd doubt he'd be traded by then, but there is always the trade through waivers with a few extra starts that one could envision.

 

Garza is a perfect guy to put on waivers. If someone claims him, they just cleared the Brewers of a whole lot of money they would otherwise owe next year, and in the likely event that no one claims him, it gives him extra starts to show other teams that he's worth trading for. I don't expect much (if any) talent back, but it would be nice if someone else would pick up his salary for next season.

 

As to Peralta, he is in his first year of arby, making $2.8M. Getting sent down is reason to believe that he won't get much of a raise going into next year. At around $3M, if he can be a decent middle reliever he's worth having around. If he remained in the MLB rotation all year, even pitching poorly he'd still probably earn $4M+ next year, at which point he'd be tough to justify even if he was an okay middle reliever when we have so many pre-arby guys as alternatives.

 

I think the most likely scenario is that he is let go after the season, and someone else picks him up as a back-of-the-rotation starter/long-man in the pen for far less than the Brewers would have to pay him in arby, but there is a chance he regains his form as a starter, or that he gets converted to a reliever where he may succeed. They have to pay him this year regardless of what happens, so they're sending him where he can do the least amount of damage, hoping he "finds it" and can be of some value in the future

 

 

There is no chance that the Brewers simply let Peralta go at season's end. He will be affordable and could easily bounce back. For what it's worth, he still throws hard, is in his prime years, and has decent control. He was the MVP in his last start, as well. I see him back with the team in August and September..... Then we'll have him for an additional year, as well. In my mind, he's STILL one of our best pitchers, even though his stats say otherwise.

 

Garza on waivers?

[nate82]

 

I think the most likely scenario is that he is let go after the season, and someone else picks him up as a back-of-the-rotation starter/long-man in the pen for far less than the Brewers would have to pay him in arby, but there is a chance he regains his form as a starter, or that he gets converted to a reliever where he may succeed. They have to pay him this year regardless of what happens, so they're sending him where he can do the least amount of damage, hoping he "finds it" and can be of some value in the future

 

Unlikely to happen. This is the same as when Estrada was horrible the last year he was with the Brewers there were plenty of people on here who said the exact same thing. There were even calls to DFA Estrada at some point in the season. I am glad Melvin didn't do that as Estrada turned into Lind which turned into three young pitchers.

 

Peralta will still have some trade value at the end of this season how much will depend on the market this off season. I could see another Estrada type of a trade in the off season but I do not see Peralta being released his salary will be minimal and won't be a hindrance to the Brewers. There really isn't anyone that Peralta will be blocking in AAA or AA either well not until at least June. Garza if he doesn't play well this year would be more likely to be released than Peralta and I only put that at about a 10% chance of happening.

[gregmag]

I dislike Garza intensely as a player and a persona (I wouldn't presume to say person), but even I think this move makes sense now. He's our best option for a fifth starter at the moment. If it helps us dump him, I'll hurt myself trying to do cartwheels.

 

If any part of Wily's problem has to do with movement on his breaking pitches, which I assume it does, then I don't love Colorado Springs for him. It is what it is. I'm more concerned about what the place is doing to Lopez.

[jerichoholicninja]

And.... Is Garza " pitching for himself"? His actions last fall and comments this spring are filled with selfish, not team, ambition. Sad thing is, out of everybody in the rotation, he is going to get a longer leash than anybody, in my opinion. They won't gave the stones to move him out of the rotation because of the drama and headaches he caused.....

 

Baseball is an individual sport not much team about it. The team can't help a batter hit and a team can't help a pitcher pitch either.

 

Baseball is jut not a team sport like basketball, football, hockey or soccer. Baseball has more in common with singles tennis than it does with other team sports. When a player is playing for themselves in baseball that is a duh statement to me and rather pointless.

 

Baseball is a team sport. It isn't tennis. The organization's philosophy, the atmosphere in the clubhouse, the spot in the order, the manager's decisions of where and when to play, teammate support, and the coaches' side sessions do help a batter hit. A good team defense can make a pitcher look good instead of bad. A good team offense gives Garza a win even when he doesn't pitch great.

 

Here's the issue...

 

Garza pitched badly last year. Counsell gave him more than enough time at the major league level to get right, which didn't happen. He arguably pitched worse than Lohse, who was moved to the pen at season's end. When he finally was told that his starting spot was being given to someone else, he had a very public temper tantrum, complained about the decision, didn't want to pitch in the bullpen, and ultimately walked away from the team for the month of September..... And he took his full 12 million dollar contract with him, still getting paid every last cent.... No apologies. He left bitter, loathing Melving. Time away maybe would help, right? Nope. He comes into spring training with more crazy talk of pitching for self. To me, he was pitching for self from the beginning. He better be, but he better not be ONLY pitching for himself. How about doing what is best for the team? Go to the pen. Help the team there. Mentor a youngster call-up in September. Do what the team asks you to do.

 

When you struggle or Greatly struggle AND obviously hurt the team every 5 days in starts, the average starter realizes the writing is on the wall and changes need to be made to the staff! He somehow felt that the organization owed it to him to let him pitch whenever he wanted, regardless of results, regardless of how well other pitchers were doing, regardless of the Brewers place in standings and wanting to see young guys like Lopez and Davies pitch. I put his attitude in the same category as Sheffield and Sterling Sharpe. He wanted his way regardless of what was obviously best for the team.

 

I hope Garza does well in the coming months. He is a Brewer. I hope he has become a better pitcher. If he has or hasn't, I hope he has learned from his incredibly selfish mistakes.

 

The details of that story are murky at best. The original report was full of personal conjecture from the reporter. Putting him in the bullpen would do nothing to help him. He's never pitched out of it before and it would have been pointless to make him do so during a lost season. Lohse went to the bullpen to try and salvage his career. Totally different situation.

 

And your comparison to Sheffield is ridiculous. Gary tanked plays and claimed racism to get traded. Garza just sucked.

[FVBrewerFan]

Let's remember any move made with Peralta and Garza are made for the good of team. Sending Peralta to AAA may or may not help him turn things around, but that's secondary. Peralta has not been a MLB calibre starter, and hasn't been for a long time. Garza is back, like it or not, and needs a spot. Peralta was beyond the obvious choice to get sent down.

 

Garza in the pen? Same story, that doesn't help the team, and it probably does nothing to help Garza either.

[rickh150]

Let's remember any move made with Peralta and Garza are made for the good of team. Sending Peralta to AAA may or may not help him turn things around, but that's secondary. Peralta has not been a MLB calibre starter, and hasn't been for a long time. Garza is back, like it or not, and needs a spot. Peralta was beyond the obvious choice to get sent down.

 

Garza in the pen? Same story, that doesn't help the team, and it probably does nothing to help Garza either.

 

So Garza at home is better than having him in the pen? This is the guy you want in the rotation? I am coming to terms of having him back, but what he did last season was a new one for me... Can't sweep that one under the rug. Would like to, though. But I blame management too. That wasn't handled well.

 

Peralta hasn't been great or good; however, Garza hasn't been a major league caliber pitcher in a while either. This will be interesting to see how the rotation is used for the rest of the season, especially with Hader doing so well.

[rickh150]

The details of that story are murky at best. The original report was full of personal conjecture from the reporter. Putting him in the bullpen would do nothing to help him. He's never pitched out of it before and it would have been pointless to make him do so during a lost season. Lohse went to the bullpen to try and salvage his career. Totally different situation.

 

And your comparison to Sheffield is ridiculous. Gary tanked plays and claimed racism to get traded. Garza just sucked.

 

No, Garza made a federal case out of an obvious team decision. He was crying foul ironically to an organization paying him big bucks to pitch well. He felt that his starts were more important than a young guy getting a chance in September. He took his ball and went home. He deserted the team (and was allowed to do it).

 

Tanking/falsely claiming racism or insubordination/desertion? At least in the same ballpark in my book.

[rickh150]

The details of that story are murky at best. The original report was full of personal conjecture from the reporter. Putting him in the bullpen would do nothing to help him. He's never pitched out of it before and it would have been pointless to make him do so during a lost season. Lohse went to the bullpen to try and salvage his career. Totally different situation.

 

And your comparison to Sheffield is ridiculous. Gary tanked plays and claimed racism to get traded. Garza just sucked.

 

No, Garza made a federal case out of an obvious team decision. He was crying foul ironically to an organization paying him big bucks to pitch well. He felt that his starts were more important than a young guy getting a chance in September. He took his ball and went home. He deserted the team (and was allowed to do it).

 

Tanking/falsely claiming racism or insubordination/desertion? At least in the same ballpark in my book.

[jerichoholicninja]

The details of that story are murky at best. The original report was full of personal conjecture from the reporter. Putting him in the bullpen would do nothing to help him. He's never pitched out of it before and it would have been pointless to make him do so during a lost season. Lohse went to the bullpen to try and salvage his career. Totally different situation.

 

And your comparison to Sheffield is ridiculous. Gary tanked plays and claimed racism to get traded. Garza just sucked.

 

No, Garza made a federal case out of an obvious team decision. He was crying foul ironically to an organization paying him big bucks to pitch well. He felt that his starts were more important than a young guy getting a chance in September. He took his ball and went home. He deserted the team (and was allowed to do it).

 

Tanking/falsely claiming racism or insubordination/desertion? At least in the same ballpark in my book.

 

The original story was that he was told he was going to the bullpen and refused. Then it was that he was given the option of pitching out of the bullpen or being shut down. I'm more inclined to believe the latter because management is smart enough to know that no one gains anything from him pitching in relief.

 

Tanking plays and "insubordination" as you call it are not the same league. If Garza "deserted" the team there's no way the Brewers just say OK and let him get away with it. He would have been suspended and fined. I've also yet to hear any player from any team say anything negative about Garza and the situation.

[brewcrewdue80]

Why is it good to have Peralta gain another year service time?

 

I'd give him starts til the AS game. If he miraculously earns his way back to ML club, Well there's that value for trade. But if he's doing bad, you move him to bullpen. He'll have a month to accustome himself to it and in Sept he's part of the callups and show his new talent. He gains trade value as a RP. Extra year is nice for that.

 

Garza and his September walk away. Simply money. It about took 8million from Garza. He needs starts for his option. Brewers in a losing season didn't give him those starts. His opinion will be 5millionnow.

[QuevedosTongue]

Why is it good to have Peralta gain another year service time?

 

I'd give him starts til the AS game. If he miraculously earns his way back to ML club, Well there's that value for trade. But if he's doing bad, you move him to bullpen. He'll have a month to accustome himself to it and in Sept he's part of the callups and show his new talent. He gains trade value as a RP. Extra year is nice for that.

 

Garza and his September walk away. Simply money. It about took 8million from Garza. He needs starts for his option. Brewers in a losing season didn't give him those starts. His opinion will be 5millionnow.

 

I think that, in Garza's mind, the Brewers sending him to the bullpen cost him $13 million, the amount that would vest for 2018 if he meets the criteria. Between the shut down last year and this year's injury it's virtually impossible for him to vest that option now (he would need 58 starts between now and the end of next season).

 

His contract was set up to reward Garza (although $13 million is low if he pitches well) if he stayed relatively healthy and performed. He didn't do either and now it's going to cost him.

[monty57]

I'd doubt he'd be traded by then, but there is always the trade through waivers with a few extra starts that one could envision.

 

Garza is a perfect guy to put on waivers. If someone claims him, they just cleared the Brewers of a whole lot of money they would otherwise owe next year, and in the likely event that no one claims him, it gives him extra starts to show other teams that he's worth trading for. I don't expect much (if any) talent back, but it would be nice if someone else would pick up his salary for next season.

 

As to Peralta, he is in his first year of arby, making $2.8M. Getting sent down is reason to believe that he won't get much of a raise going into next year. At around $3M, if he can be a decent middle reliever he's worth having around. If he remained in the MLB rotation all year, even pitching poorly he'd still probably earn $4M+ next year, at which point he'd be tough to justify even if he was an okay middle reliever when we have so many pre-arby guys as alternatives.

 

I think the most likely scenario is that he is let go after the season, and someone else picks him up as a back-of-the-rotation starter/long-man in the pen for far less than the Brewers would have to pay him in arby, but there is a chance he regains his form as a starter, or that he gets converted to a reliever where he may succeed. They have to pay him this year regardless of what happens, so they're sending him where he can do the least amount of damage, hoping he "finds it" and can be of some value in the future

 

 

There is no chance that the Brewers simply let Peralta go at season's end. He will be affordable and could easily bounce back. For what it's worth, he still throws hard, is in his prime years, and has decent control. He was the MVP in his last start, as well. I see him back with the team in August and September..... Then we'll have him for an additional year, as well. In my mind, he's STILL one of our best pitchers, even though his stats say otherwise.

 

Garza on waivers?

 

If a pitcher exactly like Peralta were a free agent at next offseason, would you want the Brewers to offer him a $4-5M deal? I really hope he can turn things around, but if he gets shelled at Colorado, and continues to get shelled when he inevitably gets called back to the majors later this year, then I don't see it being worth the risk of signing him to play next year. If they believe they can fix him, they have this whole year to try. If he's still pitching the way he's pitched for the last couple of years, they may be best served letting him be someone else's problem. I understand he's been with the Brewers since he was a young teenager, and he showed promise early, but he's been terrible for quite a while now and we're getting to the point that we have better options for a lot less money. It would suck to get nothing out of him, but it would suck more to pay him millions to post an ERA over 6.00 while taking up a rotation spot better utilized by a pre-arby prospect.

 

As to Garza, I was responding to a poster who mentioned eventually putting Garza on revocable trade waivers so he can be dealt after the trade deadline. No one is likely to claim him after a few starts, as they would be on the hook for his contract, and that gives him another month's worth of starts to prove himself for potential trade.

[adambr2]

I don't think the Brewers were actively looking for a way to rob Garza of the $13M option. If you want to stay in a MLB rotation, it helps not to be one of the worst starters in baseball. The fact that we were rebuilding and wanted to try younger starters was just added incentive to take him out of the rotation, but I don't at all believe they would have done it even in rebuilding mode if Garza had done anything to justify keeping his spot.

 

As far Garza on waivers, yeah, he would have to pitch out if his mind between now and August for someone to willingly take his contract off our hands.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'd doubt he'd be traded by then, but there is always the trade through waivers with a few extra starts that one could envision.

 

Garza is a perfect guy to put on waivers. If someone claims him, they just cleared the Brewers of a whole lot of money they would otherwise owe next year, and in the likely event that no one claims him, it gives him extra starts to show other teams that he's worth trading for. I don't expect much (if any) talent back, but it would be nice if someone else would pick up his salary for next season.

 

As to Peralta, he is in his first year of arby, making $2.8M. Getting sent down is reason to believe that he won't get much of a raise going into next year. At around $3M, if he can be a decent middle reliever he's worth having around. If he remained in the MLB rotation all year, even pitching poorly he'd still probably earn $4M+ next year, at which point he'd be tough to justify even if he was an okay middle reliever when we have so many pre-arby guys as alternatives.

 

I think the most likely scenario is that he is let go after the season, and someone else picks him up as a back-of-the-rotation starter/long-man in the pen for far less than the Brewers would have to pay him in arby, but there is a chance he regains his form as a starter, or that he gets converted to a reliever where he may succeed. They have to pay him this year regardless of what happens, so they're sending him where he can do the least amount of damage, hoping he "finds it" and can be of some value in the future

 

 

There is no chance that the Brewers simply let Peralta go at season's end. He will be affordable and could easily bounce back. For what it's worth, he still throws hard, is in his prime years, and has decent control. He was the MVP in his last start, as well. I see him back with the team in August and September..... Then we'll have him for an additional year, as well. In my mind, he's STILL one of our best pitchers, even though his stats say otherwise.

 

Garza on waivers?

 

If a pitcher exactly like Peralta were a free agent at next offseason, would you want the Brewers to offer him a $4-5M deal? I really hope he can turn things around, but if he gets shelled at Colorado, and continues to get shelled when he inevitably gets called back to the majors later this year, then I don't see it being worth the risk of signing him to play next year. If they believe they can fix him, they have this whole year to try. If he's still pitching the way he's pitched for the last couple of years, they may be best served letting him be someone else's problem. I understand he's been with the Brewers since he was a young teenager, and he showed promise early, but he's been terrible for quite a while now and we're getting to the point that we have better options for a lot less money. It would suck to get nothing out of him, but it would suck more to pay him millions to post an ERA over 6.00 while taking up a rotation spot better utilized by a pre-arby prospect.

 

As to Garza, I was responding to a poster who mentioned eventually putting Garza on revocable trade waivers so he can be dealt after the trade deadline. No one is likely to claim him after a few starts, as they would be on the hook for his contract, and that gives him another month's worth of starts to prove himself for potential trade.

 

Every year there are pitchers like Peralta who were good for a season or two, lose it, and become available as FA as their teams focus on making room for the next guy. The market for them is always soft. Many end up with minor league deals as teams look to find lightning in a bottle. Sure he still throws hard, like 75% of all pitchers in professional baseball these days. It's the guys that command their stuff, come up with quality secondary pitches that succeed and Wily has regressed in that regard. No way the Brewers should lock themselves into paying $4-5 million for a guy who wouldn't be better than 50-50 of making the team, much less being in the rotation. That's throwing money away. Non-tender him, maybe if you want offer him an incentive laden deal with a base of something like $1.5 million, so if you have to cut him, no big deal.

 

Wily's no kid. Next season will be his age 28 year. He is what he is, a hard thrower who doesn't command his stuff well enough to be more than a back end starter or average middle reliever.

[rickh150]

Any word on Peralta's current MLB service time???? Kind of forgot about this, but could be huge in hindsight in two years...

[adambr2]

Any word on Peralta's current MLB service time???? Kind of forgot about this, but could be huge in hindsight in two years...

 

Wily is probably a non-tender candidate, so I don't think his service time is much of an issue. As far as I can tell he's still arbitration eligible in 2017 and 2018 and scheduled for free agency in 2019.

[1992casey]

I appears to me that Wily spent enough time in the minors to push back his free agency by a year.

 

He started this season with 3 years, 33 days of service. Had he played 33 days short of a full season, he would have been on track to declare free agency after the 2018 season.

 

This year, he spent 57 days in the minors (give or take a day). This season is 182 calendar days long, and 172 days of service is considered a full year in CBA terms.

 

If you subtract 57 from 182, Wily would earn 125 days this year. That would give him 3 years, 158 days of service at the end of this year and make the end of the 2019 season the earliest possible date for free agent eligibility.

[brewcrewdue80]

Any word on Peralta's current MLB service time???? Kind of forgot about this, but could be huge in hindsight in two years...

 

Well Seems to me he would have been kept down long enough for him to now be a Super 2 and 1 more year of team control. Had 33days to start on the year and was down at least 55days so he'll be around 3.160 and not have gone past 4.

 

Any word on Peralta's current MLB service time???? Kind of forgot about this, but could be huge in hindsight in two years...

 

Wily is probably a non-tender candidate, so I don't think his service time is much of an issue. As far as I can tell he's still arbitration eligible in 2017 and 2018 and scheduled for free agency in 2019.

 

2.8million earned on his 1st Arb. I'd expect him not to be because teams will pay 4-6million easily at the potential Innings eater SP. Arizona/Atlanta/Philly/and SD in the NL I'd see taking the chance on him. Minnesota/Chi Sox/Houston/Seattle in the AL I'd see doing so.

Somebody finds an improvement and now he's cheap for '17 and '18. Gotta remember the FA pitching market this offseason is said to be terrible and maybe that is partially why teams are loading up on good Bullpen arms because 7Inning SPs won't be there and you are left with 5-6Inning types who give up an added run or 2.

[MNBrew]

Peralta's lousy 2015 and even lousier start to 2016 can't help his case much in arby even with his August rebound (arby's based more on the 2 most recent years rather than solely on the one just completed, right?). That said, if he continues to pitch anywhere close to how he has so far since his recall, I think there's no way the Brewers non-tender him. It's not like he's going to be overly expensive and it's not like they're hurting w/ regard to payroll (no surprise) and attendance (for a team in the earlier stages of rebuilding). I'd also suspect he & the Brewers would agree on a contract before actually getting to a hearing.

 

For a guy with three more years (at least) of team control, a huge arm, and still a decent ceiling if he can continue to get his game back at the MLB level, he may well be in next year's rotation. Another scenario is that he's a very appealing trade chip, especially if the FA market for SPs is as stark as projected.

[logan82]

Any word on Peralta's current MLB service time???? Kind of forgot about this, but could be huge in hindsight in two years...

 

Well Seems to me he would have been kept down long enough for him to now be a Super 2 and 1 more year of team control. Had 33days to start on the year and was down at least 55days so he'll be around 3.160 and not have gone past 4.

 

Any word on Peralta's current MLB service time???? Kind of forgot about this, but could be huge in hindsight in two years...

 

Wily is probably a non-tender candidate, so I don't think his service time is much of an issue. As far as I can tell he's still arbitration eligible in 2017 and 2018 and scheduled for free agency in 2019.

 

2.8million earned on his 1st Arb. I'd expect him not to be because teams will pay 4-6million easily at the potential Innings eater SP. Arizona/Atlanta/Philly/and SD in the NL I'd see taking the chance on him. Minnesota/Chi Sox/Houston/Seattle in the AL I'd see doing so.

Somebody finds an improvement and now he's cheap for '17 and '18. Gotta remember the FA pitching market this offseason is said to be terrible and maybe that is partially why teams are loading up on good Bullpen arms because 7Inning SPs won't be there and you are left with 5-6Inning types who give up an added run or 2.

Well not technically a super 2. He is already into arbitration.

[1992casey]

Yeah, super-two was out of the picture a long time ago. It only matters when a player has between two and three years of service. Before a player reaches that point, a team might want to reduce the player's chances of achieving that status.

 

I agree with MNBrew. I don't see Wily as a non-tender at this point either. All teams need some starting pitchers who don't need innings limits.

 

But whether or not the Brewers keep him, the question of eligibility for free agency is still relevant. It matters to whatever team he plays for. If the Brewers were to let him go, whoever signed him would still have those years of control.

[MadThinker88]

Would not be so quick to dismiss the non-tender option on Wily.. Many things to look at & consider..

 

does he have any options remaining after this year (2016)?

What is the option picture for others on the 40 man (after this season)?

Who still needs to be added to the 40 after this season (protect from Rule 5 draft)?

How many spots need to be opened on the 40 man and which spots will those be?

What are the rotation options for 2017 and where would they be at (majors/ minors)?

Does Wily have any trade value (during the offseason or possibly next season)?

 

Perhaps this will be a fun distraction to work on during the games this afternoon....