Ventura / Machado Fight - How to Move Baseball Beyond Beanball Wars

[Fear The Chorizo]

Last night, two of MLB's young stars with a reputation of being hotheaded had quite the dust-up. After seemingly throwing plenty inside during Machado's first at bat, Yordano Ventura drilled Manny Machado in the back with a 99mph fastball the first pitch of his second at bat. Machado charged the mound and got a good swing at Ventura in before the customary pile of 50 multimillionaires and their past-their-physical-prime coaches occurred at Camden Yards.

 

Several questions/points to make following this:

 

1 - Is it me or did KC's catcher Perez almost seem to want Machado to reach Ventura before trying to break this up? Machado was practically limping towards the mound and it didn't seem like Perez was in any rush to catch up to him.

 

2 - Both of these players have a history of instigating these incidents - so it's no surprise things got out of hand. Fair or not, I actually hope MLB makes an example out of both of these players with suspensions that actually have some teeth. I think in this particular instance Ventura was mostly to blame, so I'd limit Machado's penalty to 10 games and base it off a combination of last night + his previous history of being in the middle of these incidents. For Ventura, I'd love to see a suspension that moves his next scheduled start back about 81 games, or 1/2 a season.

 

3 - How does MLB clean this up? For all the emphasis on improving player safety with the slide/collision rules, how in the world is the practice of intentionally throwing at somebody with a ball that could literally kill or permanently maim them still part of the game? I get that pitchers need to be able to pitch inside - however there's no reason IMO to deliberately throw a pitch inside with the intent of hitting someone.

 

A few things that I think should be done by MLB to try and reduce/eliminate this garbage:

 

1 - prohibit bullpens from clearing during these altercations - there's absolutely no point to allowing a dozen pitchers and random bullpen catchers onto the field to run 350' to an on-field altercation. Have a rule similar to the NBA where if an on-field fight starts, bullpens can't empty unless they want to be suspended for a few games. Initially I wouldn't include the dugouts in this rule in case an offensive player truly needs help defending himself.

 

2 - Harsher fines/suspensions need to happen in order to make players/coaches think twice about intentionally hitting batters or starting fights. If it's obvious a pitcher hit someone intentionally, or a player started something that led to an on-field brawl, that pitcher/player and their coach both get 10 game unpaid suspensions that would start the next game the team plays - they'd have the ability to appeal to a MLB arbitrator to make the case of no intent, but it would either be 10 games or zero depending on the appeal. if you have players instigating multiple times, I think there should be a policy similar to PED penalties where suspensions/fines escalate after each incident.

[1992casey]

Here's a video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEzeQoBfEos

[DuWayne Steurer]

Ventura is a punk and a hothead (so is Machado..... but that's another story)

 

What this video doesn't show is that in Machado's 2nd inning at bat Ventura threw three straight pitches up and in...... not just inside, but way up and in. Then he comes in on his next at bat and just crushes him with a 99 mph fastball.

 

This whole "poor Royals, we're getting picked on" thing is done. They've been playing that card for 2 1/2 years now.

[MrTPlush]

I see no issue here. Fight on

[jerichoholicninja]

This wasn't a beanball war this was one guy doing his own thing. There's not really much you can do to stop that.

[Point Beer Is Best]

These sort of altercations are so stupid, BUT it was also sickly satisfying to see a hotheaded pitcher actually held accountable directly by the victim for his actions. It gets really annoying how you see pitchers like Ventura & Gerrit Cole act tough and pretend to be the enforcers of these unwritten rules, while knowing that any repercussions will likely be directed at a teammate and not them.

 

The DDT Machado landed was a nice touch as well. Almost as comical as the Nolan Ryan/Robin Ventura headlock.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think even the Royals are getting tired of Ventura's act. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2645008-yordano-ventura-trade-rumors-latest-news-speculation-on-royals-sp

 

Royals manager Ned Yost acknowledged Ventura's teammates have "probably" grown a little weary of these situations.

 

“There’s a little frustration when things like this happen, yeah," Yost said, per Rustin Dodd of the Kansas City Star.

[Fear The Chorizo]

This wasn't a beanball war this was one guy doing his own thing. There's not really much you can do to stop that.

 

Well, a suspension that has Ventura's next start scheduled for mid September instead of mid June would be an interesting way to try and to send a message, IMO.

[MoreTrife]

I see no issue here. Fight on

 

Agreed. Who cares if grown men fight? Potential for injury? Meh. Maybe Grienke got injured in a brawl? Can't remember any others. I love brawls. Good fun.

[Outlander]

I actually did not mind this fight. It was one ballplayer having an issue with another player and they went at it. There did not appear to be cheapshots by other players and everybody else seemed to want to break it up after the two had the altercation. No additional hit by pitches between the two. I'm not a big fan of beanball wars but when two guys have an issue with each other and they want to resolve it that is fine by me.

[danzig6767]

This wasn't a beanball war this was one guy doing his own thing. There's not really much you can do to stop that.

Sure you can. Suspend Ventura at least 20-30 games.

 

I have no issue with Machado charging the mound. It was Ventura who started everything by intentionally hitting Machado with a high 90's fastball for no reason. That ball could have hurt Machado and damaged the Orioles playoff chances, simply because Ventura was behaving like a douchebag and thus he deserves a hefty suspension, not some small suspension which doesn't deter him and other punk pitchers from doing it again.

[FVBrewerFan]

There's already far less of this than there was years ago. So someone fights once in a while, fine with me. In fact, maybe MLB could hire a group of former Cardinals players to randomly visit ballparks and jump players who violate an unwritten rule.

[rickh150]

Garza/Jeffress for Ventura and low A prospects.....

We rid ourselves of Garza and get a young pitcher with more upside???

[MrTPlush]

Garza/Jeffress for Ventura and low A prospects.....

We rid ourselves of Garza and get a young pitcher with more upside???

 

Both teams wouldn't do that.

[SRB]

I'm not a fan of intentional HBP, especially if you're throwing as hard as you can at the ribs, but at least it is sort of part of the game. Punching a guy in the face is not.

 

The sympathy for Machado is ridiculous and probably has a lot to do with him being a superstar. He is the one who should get a 10+ game suspension. Give Ventura 1 game, if that.

[homer]

I'm not a fan of intentional HBP, especially if you're throwing as hard as you can at the ribs, but at least it is sort of part of the game. Punching a guy in the face is not.

 

The sympathy for Machado is ridiculous and probably has a lot to do with him being a superstar. He is the one who should get a 10+ game suspension. Give Ventura 1 game, if that.

 

That's just it though. Pitchers can hide behind the ole "I was just throwing inside" line or "It got away from me." IMO, there's no reason to ever drill a guy. Work inside, back him off if you want but intentionally nailing a guy is just plain stupid.

[SRB]

I'm not a fan of intentional HBP, especially if you're throwing as hard as you can at the ribs, but at least it is sort of part of the game. Punching a guy in the face is not.

 

The sympathy for Machado is ridiculous and probably has a lot to do with him being a superstar. He is the one who should get a 10+ game suspension. Give Ventura 1 game, if that.

 

That's just it though. Pitchers can hide behind the ole "I was just throwing inside" line or "It got away from me." IMO, there's no reason to ever drill a guy. Work inside, back him off if you want but intentionally nailing a guy is just plain stupid.

 

It's definitely stupid, I just don't think it gives Machado an excuse to be even more stupid. He wasn't defending himself, he was retaliating because he was angry.

[rickh150]

Garza/Jeffress for Ventura and low A prospects.....

We rid ourselves of Garza and get a young pitcher with more upside???

 

Both teams wouldn't do that.

 

Why?

[danzig6767]

I'm not a fan of intentional HBP, especially if you're throwing as hard as you can at the ribs, but at least it is sort of part of the game. Punching a guy in the face is not.

 

The sympathy for Machado is ridiculous and probably has a lot to do with him being a superstar. He is the one who should get a 10+ game suspension. Give Ventura 1 game, if that.

You are so incredibly wrong on this and it has zero to do with Machado being a star.

 

He did absolutely nothing wrong during that game to warrant Ventura nailing him with a high 90's fastball other that Ventura being a douchebag. That pitch easily could have injured Machado had it hit him somewhere else and that would not only hurt him, it would significantly hurt Baltimore who is sitting in first place.

 

Pick up a baseball, it's basically a well made rock and for no legit reason whatsoever Ventura threw it at Machado in the high 90"s. Ventura not only deserves a really hefty suspension for that punk move, he deserved a major butt kicking, not just one punch.

 

Baseball claims it's trying to make the game safer for players, well now is a chance to prove it. Suspend Ventura for at least 20 games to let him and other pitchers know that the league will no longer tolerate this kind of cowardly and dangerous action of pitchers intentionally throwing a rock hard ball at batters, especially when there was zero justification for it besides Ventura being a hothead punk.

[rickh150]

A. Hill, Jeffress, and Garza and cash for Ventura and single A spare parts.

Brewers rid themselves of Garza.

Brewers get upside? young pitcher and build up minors a bit.

KC rids themselves of Ventura, who has disappointed greatly this season for multiple reasons.

KC gets help where they value it the most- bullpen late innings- and a controllable contract.

KC gets help at 3B with Moose out and 2B struggling.

KC gets a SP with experience and a SP body (Garza) that has past post season successes... Turnaround unlikely in my mind, but ya never know...... Along with a bucket of cash (perhaps the difference of Ventura and Garza contracts thru 2017 and Hill's remaining $) could make it enticing.....

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'm not a fan of intentional HBP, especially if you're throwing as hard as you can at the ribs, but at least it is sort of part of the game. Punching a guy in the face is not.

 

The sympathy for Machado is ridiculous and probably has a lot to do with him being a superstar. He is the one who should get a 10+ game suspension. Give Ventura 1 game, if that.

 

That's just it though. Pitchers can hide behind the ole "I was just throwing inside" line or "It got away from me." IMO, there's no reason to ever drill a guy. Work inside, back him off if you want but intentionally nailing a guy is just plain stupid.

 

It's definitely stupid, I just don't think it gives Machado an excuse to be even more stupid. He wasn't defending himself, he was retaliating because he was angry.

 

I'm machados first at bat Ventura buzzed him up and in 3 straight times. Unless there's some history nobody knows about, there's no reason for this. Should Manny have charged the mound? Nah. But it wasn't just one pitch. Ventura was going up and in over and over until he got a reaction. If Ventura had "just" hit machado with a pitch that would be one thing but he was throwing at him multiple pitches in a row. Like others have said, the pitchers get to stand out there and fire a ball at the guy consequence free.

[AdvantageSchneider]

A. Hill, Jeffress, and Garza and cash for Ventura and single A spare parts.

Brewers rid themselves of Garza.

Brewers get upside? young pitcher and build up minors a bit.

KC rids themselves of Ventura, who has disappointed greatly this season for multiple reasons.

KC gets help where they value it the most- bullpen late innings- and a controllable contract.

KC gets help at 3B with Moose out and 2B struggling.

KC gets a SP with experience and a SP body (Garza) that has past post season successes... Turnaround unlikely in my mind, but ya never know...... Along with a bucket of cash (perhaps the difference of Ventura and Garza contracts thru 2017 and Hill's remaining $) could make it enticing.....

 

B Machado had a5+ era and is a head case.

 

No thanks. Is this Sal Bando's account?

[SRB]

I'm machados first at bat Ventura buzzed him up and in 3 straight times. Unless there's some history nobody knows about, there's no reason for this. Should Manny have charged the mound? Nah. But it wasn't just one pitch. Ventura was going up and in over and over until he got a reaction. If Ventura had "just" hit machado with a pitch that would be one thing but he was throwing at him multiple pitches in a row. Like others have said, the pitchers get to stand out there and fire a ball at the guy consequence free.

 

I'm not defending Ventura. I simply think Machado is an even bigger idiot.

 

The HBP was most likely because after Ventura pitched him inside earlier in the game (totally legitimate to do that), Machado stood to admire what turned out to be a warning track flyout.

[endaround]

If baseball wants this to stop, it's fairly simple. Fine teams. Suspend managers. Give Yost a suspension. Suspend Maddon for saying players should police the game. Fine teams 6 figures the first time with higher penalties for clearly intentional acts and exponential penalties for repeated violations. Within 5 years everything would be cleaned up.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'm machados first at bat Ventura buzzed him up and in 3 straight times. Unless there's some history nobody knows about, there's no reason for this. Should Manny have charged the mound? Nah. But it wasn't just one pitch. Ventura was going up and in over and over until he got a reaction. If Ventura had "just" hit machado with a pitch that would be one thing but he was throwing at him multiple pitches in a row. Like others have said, the pitchers get to stand out there and fire a ball at the guy consequence free.

 

I'm not defending Ventura. I simply think Machado is an even bigger idiot.

 

The HBP was most likely because after Ventura pitched him inside earlier in the game (totally legitimate to do that), Machado stood to admire what turned out to be a warning track flyout.

 

So it goes back to "you watched a flyball....my feelings were hurt, now I will physically assault you"

 

That's idiocy in its purest form.