Marlon Byrd suspended for 162 games for PED use

[reillymcshane]

Byrd has been suspended by baseball for the 2nd time - netting a 1 year ban. He is not appealing the ban.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/06/marlon-byrd-positive-ped-test-162-game-ban.html

 

Byrd claims he received a tainted supplement. Amazing how many of those are floating around. Good chance his career is over as he will almost be 40 when his ban is complete next year. He was having a solid year with Cleveland, producing a .778 OPS in 34 games.

[Patrick425]

Byrd seemed to be an obvious PED user. Suddenly at ages 35-37 he was hitting more HRs than he ever did in his career. Do people still want to argue that there is no correlation between PED use and power numbers?

[Baldkin]

Byrd seemed to be an obvious PED user. Suddenly at ages 35-37 he was hitting more HRs than he ever did in his career. Do people still want to argue that there is no correlation between PED use and power numbers?

 

Because guys never develop more power as they age....

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/molitpa01-bat.shtml

 

Highest ISO seasons at ages: 30, 33, 36, 37, 34, 38

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aaronha01-bat.shtml

 

Highest ISO seasons at ages: 39, 37, 35

 

PEDs keep guys healthy, allow them to play more games.

[Patrick425]

Yes, there are rare occasions where players do inexplicably hit for more power later in there career. However, Byrd gets caught twice and you are going to just call it a coincidence that he has suddenly found a power stroke late in his career?

 

I witnessed the PED era. I saw with my own eyes, the bodys of guys like Sosa, McGwire, and Bonds just blow up. I saw guys like Brady Anderson all of a sudden hit 50 HRs out of no where. I sat and watched the 2002 HR Derby at Miller Park (warm ups and the actual Derby) and saw guys hitting balls in places that no current player would be able to reach (even with batting practice pitching). There has also been a pretty big decrease in HR numbers since the crack down and new rules regarding PED use. 25-35 HRs are now considered pretty good for a season.

[jerichoholicninja]

Byrd played in the bandboxes in Cincinnati and Philadelphia at the end of his career. Sure, he hit more homers but his OPS+ never really deviated from his career average these last years.

[1992casey]

Do people still want to argue that there is no correlation between PED use and power numbers?

 

I think the link is that PEDs can allow for a more strenuous workout routine. I'd hypothesize that the workouts allowed by the PEDs could be the cause of increased power numbers. It'd be a chain of events rather than direct causation.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Do people still want to argue that there is no correlation between PED use and power numbers?

 

I think the link is that PEDs can allow for a more strenuous workout routine. I'd hypothesize that the workouts allowed by the PEDs could be the cause of increased power numbers. It'd be a chain of events rather than direct causation.

 

That's pretty much it. You can't take some supplements and sit on the couch. They don't make you stronger by themselves, they shorten your recovery time. Not only do they allow for an increased workout regimen in the offseason, but if you can lessen the fatigue on your body from playing the day before, you will likely perform better.

[dacbrewers]

I'm getting tired of the PED's. It's a joke and MLB needs to put the hammer down. Let's fix the problem once and for all, by banning guys the first time they get caught. MLB provides a list of acceptable substances that they can take. If you don't follow it, its your own fault. If your unsure about a substance, send it to MLB for testing. It really is that simple. If they paid decent wages at AA and AAA, it may curb some of the PED use in the minors. When you have such a discrepancy in wages from the minors to the majors, guys are always going to be looking for a way to get an advantage, hence PED use.

[CheezWizHed]

Do people still want to argue that there is no correlation between PED use and power numbers?

 

I think the link is that PEDs can allow for a more strenuous workout routine. I'd hypothesize that the workouts allowed by the PEDs could be the cause of increased power numbers. It'd be a chain of events rather than direct causation.

 

That's pretty much it. You can't take some supplements and sit on the couch. They don't make you stronger by themselves, they shorten your recovery time. Not only do they allow for an increased workout regimen in the offseason, but if you can lessen the fatigue on your body from playing the day before, you will likely perform better.

 

Also realize that "PEDs" is a generic term and not a specific drug. They can cover different banned substances that have different intended purposes.

[stoutdude04]

I'm getting tired of the PED's. It's a joke and MLB needs to put the hammer down. Let's fix the problem once and for all, by banning guys the first time they get caught. MLB provides a list of acceptable substances that they can take. If you don't follow it, its your own fault. If your unsure about a substance, send it to MLB for testing. It really is that simple. If they paid decent wages at AA and AAA, it may curb some of the PED use in the minors. When you have such a discrepancy in wages from the minors to the majors, guys are always going to be looking for a way to get an advantage, hence PED use.

 

I am sure you are right. I for one couldn't care less about PED's and I personally think certain PED's should be allowed to be used. If I pay money to go to the game I would rather see a healthy Braun playing instead of Elian Herrera. I liken PED's to Tommy John surgery. Players can't take certain substances but are allowed to replace tendons from a different part of their body? That seems odd to me, but I know I am in the minority on that.

[Baldkin]

Yes, there are rare occasions where players do inexplicably hit for more power later in there career. However, Byrd gets caught twice and you are going to just call it a coincidence that he has suddenly found a power stroke late in his career?

 

I witnessed the PED era. I saw with my own eyes, the bodys of guys like Sosa, McGwire, and Bonds just blow up. I saw guys like Brady Anderson all of a sudden hit 50 HRs out of no where. I sat and watched the 2002 HR Derby at Miller Park (warm ups and the actual Derby) and saw guys hitting balls in places that no current player would be able to reach (even with batting practice pitching). There has also been a pretty big decrease in HR numbers since the crack down and new rules regarding PED use. 25-35 HRs are now considered pretty good for a season.

 

Roger Maris only hit 50 HRs once in his career. Andre Dawson only hit 40 once in his career (and hit 49 that year, never more than 32 other than that). Clearly, they started doing steroids that year.

 

It's nice you think that PEDs are the evil horrible thing that caused it, but when offense jumps massively across baseball and ISO increases overnight, it wasn't PEDs that did it. Then, suddenly, magically, offense goes back to "Pre-PED" era overnight, while guys are still getting caught.... yeah, was PEDs, no doubt about it.

[lcbj68c]

I am sure you are right. I for one couldn't care less about PED's and I personally think certain PED's should be allowed to be used. If I pay money to go to the game I would rather see a healthy Braun playing instead of Elian Herrera. I liken PED's to Tommy John surgery. Players can't take certain substances but are allowed to replace tendons from a different part of their body? That seems odd to me, but I know I am in the minority on that.

 

I agree 100%. Taking a supplemental to heal faster is probably less of an advantage than replacing tendons and ligaments artificially.

[Patrick425]

It's nice you think that PEDs are the evil horrible thing that caused it, but when offense jumps massively across baseball and ISO increases overnight, it wasn't PEDs that did it. Then, suddenly, magically, offense goes back to "Pre-PED" era overnight, while guys are still getting caught.... yeah, was PEDs, no doubt about it.

 

So, you think if you ask Canseco why he took steroids, he will answer that he took it to recover from injuries quicker?. No, he would tell you that he took them to hit more HRs (along with McGwire, Sosa, and others during that period - although those guys are still in denial) and it worked. A few people are getting caught now and you are assuming that everyone is still taking them. Maybe you are right and I'll admit that the PEDs of today may be a little different than the PEDs from that era...maybe they are more about avoiding injuires now, I don't know. However, during that time they were clearly used to bulk up and gain strength (by allowing them to increase their workout regiment). You can honestly look at these pictures and tell me you don't think PEDs helped these guys with their power? I'm assuming you also think the moon landings were a hoax.

 

http://www.blankmaninc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/steroids-before-and-after2.jpg

[DuWayne Steurer]

I don't get what the McGwire picture proves. He hit 49 homers as a rookie when he was a skinny whip of a kid. I don't get what the Clemens picture (or accusation) proves. He was always a big, thick dude.

 

Clemens taking steroids wouldn't be to make him "stronger", it would be for recovery, especially as he was pushing into his late 30's and early 40's. I can't for the life of me imagine why a pitcher would want to have bigger, thicker arms. that makes no sense whatsoever. Clemens doesn't look any bigger in either of those pictures.

[MadScientist]

I am sure you are right. I for one couldn't care less about PED's and I personally think certain PED's should be allowed to be used. If I pay money to go to the game I would rather see a healthy Braun playing instead of Elian Herrera. I liken PED's to Tommy John surgery. Players can't take certain substances but are allowed to replace tendons from a different part of their body? That seems odd to me, but I know I am in the minority on that.

 

I agree 100%. Taking a supplemental to heal faster is probably less of an advantage than replacing tendons and ligaments artificially.

Only in that their career is over if they don't get damage repaired via surgery, while they are still capable of playing at a high level without steroids.

 

Seriously, repairing mechanical damage just can't be compared to changing a person's whole physiology (with any number of side effects) to get a competitive advantage. I've said it before, if you allow steroids, you pretty much make them mandatory. Surgery isn't something people do by choice. Look at how often players try rest and rehab first. It's something they avoid if at all possible.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Byrd worked with Victor Conte since 2008...PEDs basically made his career. He can talk about taking only legal stuff all he wants, it's just not true.

[stoutdude04]

Only in that their career is over if they don't get damage repaired via surgery, while they are still capable of playing at a high level without steroids.

 

Seriously, repairing mechanical damage just can't be compared to changing a person's whole physiology (with any number of side effects) to get a competitive advantage. I've said it before, if you allow steroids, you pretty much make them mandatory. Surgery isn't something people do by choice. Look at how often players try rest and rehab first. It's something they avoid if at all possible.

 

I am not advocating steroids. I imagine there are plenty of other supplements that are banned that help players heal and stay healthy. PEDs does not specifically mean steroids.

[Patrick425]

I don't get what the McGwire picture proves. He hit 49 homers as a rookie when he was a skinny whip of a kid.

 

 

Which is one of the many reasons that era bothers me. Both McGwire and Bonds would have probably had great careers and made a lot of money without the aid of steroids. Bonds really kills me...I would have loved to have seen what his untainted numbers would have been like. I think he still would have been one of the greatest. We'll never know.

[tmwiese55]

I'm getting tired of the PED's. It's a joke and MLB needs to put the hammer down. Let's fix the problem once and for all, by banning guys the first time they get caught. MLB provides a list of acceptable substances that they can take. If you don't follow it, its your own fault. If your unsure about a substance, send it to MLB for testing. It really is that simple. If they paid decent wages at AA and AAA, it may curb some of the PED use in the minors. When you have such a discrepancy in wages from the minors to the majors, guys are always going to be looking for a way to get an advantage, hence PED use.

 

I am sure you are right. I for one couldn't care less about PED's and I personally think certain PED's should be allowed to be used. If I pay money to go to the game I would rather see a healthy Braun playing instead of Elian Herrera. I liken PED's to Tommy John surgery. Players can't take certain substances but are allowed to replace tendons from a different part of their body? That seems odd to me, but I know I am in the minority on that.

 

I agree with this.

 

The media blows PEDs in baseball out of proportion and now there's takes out there like this acting like it's a huge huge problem ruining the game. Are you aware baseball already has the strictest testing in all of sports, including the Olympics? There's suspensions in the NFL all the time and no one cares, NBA basically has a joke of a testing program and no testing in the playoffs. The fact that only a handful of people each year are getting caught is a actually a sign of how miniscule it is now. And if I recall the batch of suspensions a few weeks back was on account of some kind of labeling type screw up where a certain supplement they were taking was supposed to be ok but it wasn't, not out of trying to massively cheat.

 

I won't deny the points in this thread about the glory days of steroids and how much those guys bulked up. But right now with this testing policy that simply isn't happening anymore, they're not taking massive pure testosterone steroids to tack on muscle. Many times they're taking supplements that can be bought legally over the counter and common people use with their workouts and sometimes they take the wrong one. And when they are deliberately cheating like the Braun/Arod Miami scandal they were taking such a minuscule amount that they were passing the tests and they're basically using it as a recovery than as a muscle builder to tack on mass.

[BillScottCanRake]

The question I would have regarding the before and after pictures is how much is the added muscle due to players changing their diets and workouts and how much is due to PEDs? Those guys all played not only in the "PED" era, but in an era of great changes and advancements in diet and workouts. I met Rickie Weeks when he was in Beloit in 2003, when he was 20. Weeks was built like an NFL safety, and noticeably bigger than before McGwire and Bonds. Was that because of PEDs or because Weeks worked out differently than younger Bonds and McGwire?

 

So my question is (and has been) how much of an 'E' have players gotten taking PEDs? I don't know what the answer is, but I do think players can transform their bodies without resorting to PEDs. Do they turn players who hit 20 home runs per year into guys who hit 35 or 25? I just don't know what the answer is.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The question I would have regarding the before and after pictures is how much is the added muscle due to players changing their diets and workouts and how much is due to PEDs?

 

 

This is a great comment. A lot of people just jump to the conclusion that you can't add muscle mass without PEDS, and that is flat out false.

[jerichoholicninja]

In the media's attempt to "clean up" the game by demonizing any player who has ever even thought the word steroids in his brain, they've ruined a whole generation of players and fans. My high school kids that I coached this spring talked about baseball more than any group I've ever had before which really impressed me. However, on one bus trip I overheard them talking about their favorite players and impressive stats/records, every time followed by, "Well he's on steroids, so...". I thought the whole thing was kind of funny till someone brought up Ichiro, and it was of course followed by "He's on the roids," and a general agreement by all involved. It just then kind of hit me that PED's have been made to be such a huge deal by the media and some fans that these kids think there is zero integrity in baseball. When Ichiro (who may very well have taken PED's, I don't know for sure) is mentioned as a steroid guy, you know the issue has jumped the shark.

[Baldkin]

It's nice you think that PEDs are the evil horrible thing that caused it, but when offense jumps massively across baseball and ISO increases overnight, it wasn't PEDs that did it. Then, suddenly, magically, offense goes back to "Pre-PED" era overnight, while guys are still getting caught.... yeah, was PEDs, no doubt about it.

 

So, you think if you ask Canseco why he took steroids, he will answer that he took it to recover from injuries quicker?. No, he would tell you that he took them to hit more HRs (along with McGwire, Sosa, and others during that period - although those guys are still in denial) and it worked. A few people are getting caught now and you are assuming that everyone is still taking them. Maybe you are right and I'll admit that the PEDs of today may be a little different than the PEDs from that era...maybe they are more about avoiding injuires now, I don't know. However, during that time they were clearly used to bulk up and gain strength (by allowing them to increase their workout regiment). You can honestly look at these pictures and tell me you don't think PEDs helped these guys with their power? I'm assuming you also think the moon landings were a hoax.

 

Maybe as the stigma of being big and playing baseball wore off (for a long time it was believed you couldn't lift & play baseball at the same time) guys got bigger. Guys got bigger when they went from 24 to 34.

I believe in the scientific method as opposed to conjecture, media outrage, and random data points being spouted off as proof. In 1993/1994, the entire leagues ISO jumped. Massively.

Either everyone started using steroids during that year at the exact same time, or something else changed.

 

http://steroids-and-baseball.com/

 

Extraordinary players do extraordinary things over the course of time. Sometimes their careers overlap. Before 1960, there were 3 members of the 500 home run club. Suddenly, in the next 11 years that number grew to 11. Clearly, steroids.

[tmwiese55]

In the media's attempt to "clean up" the game by demonizing any player who has ever even thought the word steroids in his brain, they've ruined a whole generation of players and fans. My high school kids that I coached this spring talked about baseball more than any group I've ever had before which really impressed me. However, on one bus trip I overheard them talking about their favorite players and impressive stats/records, every time followed by, "Well he's on steroids, so...". I thought the whole thing was kind of funny till someone brought up Ichiro, and it was of course followed by "He's on the roids," and a general agreement by all involved. It just then kind of hit me that PED's have been made to be such a huge deal by the media and some fans that these kids think there is zero integrity in baseball. When Ichiro (who may very well have taken PED's, I don't know for sure) is mentioned as a steroid guy, you know the issue has jumped the shark.

 

Very well said. And besides the media, MLB itself has perpetuated it by going so wild west in trying to catch people. The way the whole Miami scandal was investigated was very shady. It's like MLB wanted more negative attention for themselves.

[jerichoholicninja]

In the media's attempt to "clean up" the game by demonizing any player who has ever even thought the word steroids in his brain, they've ruined a whole generation of players and fans. My high school kids that I coached this spring talked about baseball more than any group I've ever had before which really impressed me. However, on one bus trip I overheard them talking about their favorite players and impressive stats/records, every time followed by, "Well he's on steroids, so...". I thought the whole thing was kind of funny till someone brought up Ichiro, and it was of course followed by "He's on the roids," and a general agreement by all involved. It just then kind of hit me that PED's have been made to be such a huge deal by the media and some fans that these kids think there is zero integrity in baseball. When Ichiro (who may very well have taken PED's, I don't know for sure) is mentioned as a steroid guy, you know the issue has jumped the shark.

 

Very well said. And besides the media, MLB itself has perpetuated it by going so wild west in trying to catch people. The way the whole Miami scandal was investigated was very shady. It's like MLB wanted more negative attention for themselves.

 

Even if MLB does actually care about a clean game they need it to appear that they are doing something about it because they let things get out of control in the first place.