Brewer All-Star Candidates

[DougJonesChangeUp]

As long as you have that much money involved and with how effective PEDs have proved to be, PEDs are always going to be around. Lots of guys try to time it right.

[pacopete4]

Well Brewers fans really got out there for Braun as he finished 5th of five on the final vote.

 

 

Saunders goes for the AL and Belt for the NL.

'

 

 

It says on the MLB site that voting goes through 4PM EST on Friday????????

 

 

Yeah my bad. It was just an update. But still, he ain't getting in.

[brewcrewdue80]

Well Brewers fans really got out there for Braun as he finished 5th of five on the final vote.

 

 

Saunders goes for the AL and Belt for the NL.

'

 

 

It says on the MLB site that voting goes through 4PM EST on Friday????????

 

 

Yeah my bad. It was just an update. But still, he ain't getting in.

 

I easily put in 200 votes today waiting for work. Braun/Kinsler

[MrTPlush]

He didn't accuse him of framing him, he accused him of doing his job badly/incompetently. Which was 100% true.

 

"What could have possibly happened to it during that 44-hour period (before the collector took the urine sample to FedEx)? There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way that the entire thing worked that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened...We spoke to biochemists and scientists and we asked them, ‘How difficult would it be to tamper with somebody’s sample?’ And their response was that, ‘If they were motivated, it would be extremely easy.’"

 

He inferred that the collector had likely tampered with his sample and that is why it was a failed test. I'm sorry but he made that collector look horrible and made people think the collector did something wrong. Now of course if he didn't know he had taken something maybe this would have been no big deal, but he did. In the end Braun talked way too much. He should have left it at "The collection process wasn't correct" and been done with it. Instead he seemed confident this was buried forever...unfortunately for him that plan backfired badly.

 

I don't really care either way, but I hate when people act like Braun didn't go after the collector. He did and more than just saying he didn't do his job right(not getting it to FedEx fast enough). Is it a bit overblown? Probably, but it doesn't mean he didn't do it.

[Pugger]

What I find incredible is fans still treat Braun like he is this horrible monster who should be banned from baseball forever like Pete Rose. You would think he murdered somebody if you listen to the venom he must hear on the road all the time. Braun screwed up by talking too much and trying to place blame elsewhere but he wasn't the first nor will he be the last to try to beat the system.

[MrTPlush]

What I find incredible is fans still treat Braun like he is this horrible monster who should be banned from baseball forever like Pete Rose. You would think he murdered somebody if you listen to the venom he must hear on the road all the time. Braun screwed up by talking too much and trying to place blame elsewhere but he wasn't the first nor will he be the last to try to beat the system.

 

It's all about how the media takes it, the fact Ryan Braun was one of the best in the game at the time, and the fact he won the appeal. Because I guess not being as good makes everything a little less bad like the PEDs aren't doing anything. The fact the news broke of an appeal really hurt him too. Not because the test came up, but because it turned into this big melting pot story for months. It was just a disaster situation and a big dose of karma for Braun.

 

In my opinion Cabrera isn't that much better for what he did...except he lost his appeal:

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8282185/san-francisco-giants-melky-cabrera-launched-fake-website-ruse-report-says

[Boomer5]

As long as you have that much money involved and with how effective PEDs have proved to be, PEDs are always going to be around. Lots of guys try to time it right.

 

PEDs are very much still in today's game as we saw with Byrd and others.

[tmwiese55]

He didn't accuse him of framing him, he accused him of doing his job badly/incompetently. Which was 100% true.

 

"What could have possibly happened to it during that 44-hour period (before the collector took the urine sample to FedEx)? There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way that the entire thing worked that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened...We spoke to biochemists and scientists and we asked them, ‘How difficult would it be to tamper with somebody’s sample?’ And their response was that, ‘If they were motivated, it would be extremely easy.’"

 

He inferred that the collector had likely tampered with his sample and that is why it was a failed test. I'm sorry but he made that collector look horrible and made people think the collector did something wrong. Now of course if he didn't know he had taken something maybe this would have been no big deal, but he did. In the end Braun talked way too much. He should have left it at "The collection process wasn't correct" and been done with it. Instead he seemed confident this was buried forever...unfortunately for him that plan backfired badly.

 

I don't really care either way, but I hate when people act like Braun didn't go after the collector. He did and more than just saying he didn't do his job right(not getting it to FedEx fast enough). Is it a bit overblown? Probably, but it doesn't mean he didn't do it.

 

I didn't remember it being quite that direct, so yes that quote implies it that way and I won't really deny that way of looking at it. I just went back an re-read it, and the quotes around that quote just go into how it was handled, chain of custody, and just them not following protocol. He does bring up confidentiality which again does imply intentional tampering. so yes, he did imply something intentional more than I remember. That said, the collector 100% did his job incorrectly and deserved to be thrown under the bus and likely not allowed to do this job anymore.

 

I'd still be curious if the collector didn't mess up that test whether he would have failed. Seems he likely had a pretty solid system in place to pass tests, and really it would have been just dumb to have taken that day knowing that all players must be tested in the playoffs. Keep in mind the other two guys tested that day also failed theirs so drastically they were thrown out as mistakes because it was viewed as almost impossible to test that high, and Braun was just under the threshold of being thrown out. At least that's what was reported at the time, if it was disproven since I don't know. Say he never fails the test maybe he skates through the Arod scandal by being given the benefit of the doubt.

[dlk9s]

The fact the news broke of an appeal really hurt him too. Not because the test came up, but because it turned into this big melting pot story for months.

That was where Braun got screwed (compared to the other guys who got caught, that is). If his failed test before the appeal wasn't leaked to the public, he would've just ended up winning the appeal without anyone knowing. Of course, he would've later been caught in the investigation, but other guys were, too, and they haven't faced backlash.

 

Braun was forced to defend himself publicly. He and his team didn't go about it perfectly, but at the same time, I can't blame him for lying. I would've lied, too. We all would've lied. He thought he had a good chance to win his appeal, so obviously he wasn't going to say he did anything wrong. Everybody lies until they know they can't lie anymore. OH NOES HE LIED THE HORROR.

[tmwiese55]

Good point, without the leak it wouldn't have been the long media story so now everyone remembers him but not all the other guys who've been caught.

 

He had no choice but to lie after winning the appeal. In hindsight though, knowing that he had used he should have been more humble about it though just in case something else came out. On the other hand, his goal in order to get back in the HOF trajectory was to turn the public back on his side and make people believe that he'd never used. The best way to do that was to act like you've never done it, and a person like that would have given a very similar speech.

 

Best route probably would have been to not say anything and demand to get traded to the Sawx, then you can still be loved in spite of being a PED user and still make the HOF.

[reillymcshane]

I don't live in Wisconsin, so the people I know don't care about the Brewers. But I can say that when Braun's name comes up virtually everyone I know doesn't like him - not because of the PEDs - but because of his insinuation that the sample collector had done something with his test.

 

Technically, he never accused anyone of anything, but his vehement denials, coupled with his comments about the sample taker crossed a line. Once he did that, Braun wasn't just a guy who took PEDs to get better - he was a guy who was willing throw another human being under the bus to save his own butt. That, more than the PEDs, is what sticks in people's minds (at least in my experience).

 

As noted, if Braun would have just fessed up - said, "took some stuff to help get him back on the field, didn't realize it would cause a problem, sorry, sorry, never happen again..." - then most people wouldn't really care anymore. Or even if he had, at his press conference, said something like, "I didn't do it. We think there were some irregularities that caused it..." He might have been okay - but the aggressive tone he took, the vague references to the sample collector - those things implicated another person.

 

They yell 'steroids' at the game because it's a lot easier to get that going than 'weasel how threw guy under the bus' or something like that. But it was his arrogance that really turned people off - and that's all they remember of Braun now. I think this latter point is important - most people outside of Wisconsin don't care about Braun or know anything more about him. They just have that image that the scandal brought up - and they'll never move beyond it.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Like Reilly, I think Braun could have (and should have) taken a much less "aggressive" tone with his initial "I didn't do it" news conference.

 

I also think it's hilarious when I read message boards/comments sections how many people still think Braun "ruined the sample collector's life". As far as I know, that was/is his 2nd job, and he's still doing it, as far as I know.

[JackNicholson1974]

I don't live in Wisconsin, so the people I know don't care about the Brewers. But I can say that when Braun's name comes up virtually everyone I know doesn't like him - not because of the PEDs - but because of his insinuation that the sample collector had done something with his test.

 

Technically, he never accused anyone of anything, but his vehement denials, coupled with his comments about the sample taker crossed a line. Once he did that, Braun wasn't just a guy who took PEDs to get better - he was a guy who was willing throw another human being under the bus to save his own butt. That, more than the PEDs, is what sticks in people's minds (at least in my experience).

 

As noted, if Braun would have just fessed up - said, "took some stuff to help get him back on the field, didn't realize it would cause a problem, sorry, sorry, never happen again..." - then most people wouldn't really care anymore. Or even if he had, at his press conference, said something like, "I didn't do it. We think there were some irregularities that caused it..." He might have been okay - but the aggressive tone he took, the vague references to the sample collector - those things implicated another person.

 

They yell 'steroids' at the game because it's a lot easier to get that going than 'weasel how threw guy under the bus' or something like that. But it was his arrogance that really turned people off - and that's all they remember of Braun now. I think this latter point is important - most people outside of Wisconsin don't care about Braun or know anything more about him. They just have that image that the scandal brought up - and they'll never move beyond it.

 

I agree with this sentiment. Braun didnt make the All-Star team because most of the roster is picked by player vote now, and then the manager fills in with teams that are missing players, etc. Due to Braun's reaction AFTER being exonerated I think he really alienated a lot of people. If he had just kept his head down, said nothing, he wouldnt be any different than any other PED guy. But he is disliked by a lot of players (I believe) due to the way he acted AFTER he won.

[tmwiese55]

Guys, he made the ASG last year. He didn't make it this year because Philly and Reds needed reps and their only options were OF. Braun just isn't quite good enough now to be an automatic in no matter what like in his prime, he's now borderline/debateable when healthy and can get bumped due to teams needing spots.

[logan82]

I don't live in Wisconsin, so the people I know don't care about the Brewers. But I can say that when Braun's name comes up virtually everyone I know doesn't like him - not because of the PEDs - but because of his insinuation that the sample collector had done something with his test.

 

Technically, he never accused anyone of anything, but his vehement denials, coupled with his comments about the sample taker crossed a line. Once he did that, Braun wasn't just a guy who took PEDs to get better - he was a guy who was willing throw another human being under the bus to save his own butt. That, more than the PEDs, is what sticks in people's minds (at least in my experience).

 

As noted, if Braun would have just fessed up - said, "took some stuff to help get him back on the field, didn't realize it would cause a problem, sorry, sorry, never happen again..." - then most people wouldn't really care anymore. Or even if he had, at his press conference, said something like, "I didn't do it. We think there were some irregularities that caused it..." He might have been okay - but the aggressive tone he took, the vague references to the sample collector - those things implicated another person.

 

They yell 'steroids' at the game because it's a lot easier to get that going than 'weasel how threw guy under the bus' or something like that. But it was his arrogance that really turned people off - and that's all they remember of Braun now. I think this latter point is important - most people outside of Wisconsin don't care about Braun or know anything more about him. They just have that image that the scandal brought up - and they'll never move beyond it.

 

I agree with this sentiment. Braun didnt make the All-Star team because most of the roster is picked by player vote now, and then the manager fills in with teams that are missing players, etc. Due to Braun's reaction AFTER being exonerated I think he really alienated a lot of people. If he had just kept his head down, said nothing, he wouldnt be any different than any other PED guy. But he is disliked by a lot of players (I believe) due to the way he acted AFTER he won.

If his failed test was not leaked he would have been just like every other PED user. Whoever leaked the failed test should be held accountable.

[jerichoholicninja]

Many hated Braun before his scandal. The scandal just gave people a "real" reason to hate him instead of "he's really good at baseball and looks cocky."

[MrTPlush]

I doubt no leaked scandal would have made him like "every other user". Not only is he way better than 99.9% of current day users(that have been caught), but he also won the MVP award the year he got busted.

 

I bet he would still be quite hated regardless for those reasons.

[Pugger]

Guys, he made the ASG last year. He didn't make it this year because Philly and Reds needed reps and their only options were OF. Braun just isn't quite good enough now to be an automatic in no matter what like in his prime, he's now borderline/debateable when healthy and can get bumped due to teams needing spots.

 

Aren't his numbers this year better than last? Fans didn't vote for him last year either. I suspect he might still get in this year if an OF already named can't play and Braun is named as a injury replacement.

[The stache]

Syndergaard and Cespedes are likely both going to miss the game. So, an outfield spot opens up. And that will go to Marte, because even though Braun leads him in virtually every statistic (or did before his 0 for 4 last night), Marte has the magical WAR. Doesn't matter that Braun has a better range factor, 2 fewer errors, the same number of assists (in a few less chances)--WAR is all anybody looks at.

[StearnsFTW]

Wait, you're not arguing that Braun is a better outfielder than Marte are you? Because Marte is pretty darn good defensively. And Braun is......not.

 

Marte got snubbed big-time too.

[stoutdude04]

Fowler out, Cespedes out...

 

Expected to be replaced with Marte and Jay Bruce. Ha

[MrTPlush]

Marte...fine.

 

But Jay Bruce...uhh..........

[reillymcshane]

Honestly, I'd rather Braun just sit home and relax and rest all his various ailments for the week. It would probably do him good not to play.

 

The only real benefit would be to showcase him to teams, but I don't know if that really matters.

[tmwiese55]

Very surprised Bruce in over him. Who knows though, maybe he declined for the extra days off. Being in San Diego though it's a good location for him. Or they just liked the homers and rbis more. Still surprised since he got put on the final vote and all.

[The stache]

Marte's dWAR this year is 0.6. Braun's is 0.3. Not that big a difference when you look at the offensive production gap. Marte has an .826 OPS. Braun's is .894.

 

Wait, you're not arguing that Braun is a better outfielder than Marte are you? Because Marte is pretty darn good defensively. And Braun is......not.

 

Marte got snubbed big-time too.