Bernie Pleskoff Scouting Report: Josh Hader

[markedman5]

Man I hope he is right.

 

http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/milwaukee-brewers/pleskoff-scouting-report-josh-hader/

[wildcat2237]

Nice report, sounds like Hader's ceiling is as a #2 starter and occasional all-star while Hader's floor is as a legit back end reliever. Not bad.

[reillymcshane]

The really nice thing about Hader is that he has pretty much duplicated his peripheral stats from last year with Biloxi.

 

2015 - 38.2 IP, 11BB, 50K, 2.79 ERA, 0.983 WHIP, 3 HR allowed

2016 - 40.2 IP, 13BB, 54K, 0.89 ERA, 1.008 WHIP, 0 HR allowed

 

The ERA is the main difference - I'm guessing there's some luck involved there as well as not allowing an HR thus far.

 

But it's great to see the consistency - something he was criticized for before coming to Milwaukee. I don't know if something just clicked after the trade, or if he got some bit of advice from the coaches - but whatever it is, let's hope he stays in that zone.

[MadThinker88]

IF Hader can stick as a starter (& be good at it), it will be a big help with the rebuild. I hope he does.

The jury is still out on that and there are a number of "experts" that doubt he will make it as a starter, that he will be a very good reliever.

 

I was listening to a Tribe game during this week and Tom Hamilton relayed a comment from Bud Black made years ago: Its tougher to find a pitcher that can get 21 outs in a game then one that can get 1 or 3. Develop guys to be starters as long as possible.

 

I think that is sound advice...

[pacopete4]

Why do so many question him being a starter?

[brewmann04]

The inability right now to get deep into games .

[fondybrewfan]

I don't think that is entirely it. If you look at the pitch counts he could have routinely gotten into the 6th or 7th inning if allowed to go 95+ pitches. Does he have some bad splits against righties or something?

[ZBTMP]

In the past it was a question of secondary stuff, but that seems to have gone away. Max effort delivery and slight build (he has been listed as low as 160lbs) are what I've seen second hand concerns.

[pacopete4]

Lefties take longer to develop. He's only 22 and lighting it up at AA. I don't want to hear the "he doesn't pitch deep into games" because they aren't allowing him to. It is nothing that he is doing. The Brewers and doing Brewer things and being overly cautious with their prospect. I wish they weren't this way sometimes but it doesn't look like it will be changing anytime soon.

[TheCrew07]

Lefties take longer to develop.

 

Is that some Melvinism like "speed takes longer to develop"? There are fewer LH pitchers, so they are fewer in the big leagues, but they hardly take longer to develop.

 

And no, when he was going 4 innings on 85 pitches he wouldn't have got through 6 or 7. Going 6 innings is a very recent trend.

 

He doesn't have good control or command at this point, at least in my opinion for his level. If you aren't able to ever hit a spot then prospect watchers are going to look at a guy like him and see that he fits nicely into the backend of a bullpen. K-Rod never hit a spot either, that's why he ended up as a reliever where he could make it work in short outings. I'm a firm believer in developing every pitcher as a starter for as long as possible but I also don't think it's very hard to see why Hader gets #3/bullpen type labels.

 

Personally I don't hold Bernie Pleskoff in very high regard, everything he writes tends to read like what the parents or his HS coach would say about the player. I don't want to be sold on a player, I want an accurate assessment of strengths and weaknesses, which is why I read as many sources as possible to form my own opinion.

 

MLB and by extension MiLB have a vested interest in fans being excited about their prospects, so I would caution restraint when using their opinions as source material. I do have great respect for Callis, I think snagging him was a savvy move and instantly gave MLB more credibility, but I'm still extremely skeptical of the of the source. Much like I am with anything coming out of the Brewers about their own prospects, it's hardly unbiased, I'd rather get the opinion of the scouts from the other teams in our division.

[pacopete4]

Lefties take longer to develop.

 

Is that some Melvinism like "speed takes longer to develop"? There are fewer LH pitchers, so they are fewer in the big leagues, but they hardly take longer to develop.

 

Your opinion but it sure does seem to take them to they are closer to 30 for them to "get it" than right handed pitchers. My statement had nothing to do with the number of left handers in the MLB. I even think of a guy like Randy Johnson. He was good during his career but was at his best in his 30's.

[JohnBriggs12]

Lefties take longer to develop. He's only 22 and lighting it up at AA. I don't want to hear the "he doesn't pitch deep into games" because they aren't allowing him to. It is nothing that he is doing. The Brewers and doing Brewer things and being overly cautious with their prospect. I wish they weren't this way sometimes but it doesn't look like it will be changing anytime soon.

 

"Lefties take longer to develop"?? Nonsense. Bumgarner debuted at 19. Kershaw at 20. Sabathia at 20. Chris Sale at 21. All had less minor league experience than Hader and none has had any significant injuries other than Sabathia much later in his career. "Too slight"??? Sale is listed at 6'6" 180.

 

Obviously, the perception at the time he was drafted was that Hader wasn't in their class and that's going to result in slower progress. But scouts make mistakes and if they did a 2012 re-draft today, Hader would be right up there.

[pacopete4]

Lefties take longer to develop. He's only 22 and lighting it up at AA. I don't want to hear the "he doesn't pitch deep into games" because they aren't allowing him to. It is nothing that he is doing. The Brewers and doing Brewer things and being overly cautious with their prospect. I wish they weren't this way sometimes but it doesn't look like it will be changing anytime soon.

 

"Lefties take longer to develop"?? Nonsense. Bumgarner debuted at 19. Kershaw at 20. Sabathia at 20. Chris Sale at 21. All had less minor league experience than Hader and none has had any significant injuries other than Sabathia much later in his career. "Too slight"??? Sale is listed at 6'6" 180.

 

Obviously, the perception at the time he was drafted was that Hader wasn't in their class and that's going to result in slower progress. But scouts make mistakes and if they did a 2012 re-draft today, Hader would be right up there.

 

 

All 1st round picks who are definitely treated differently than someone drafted in the 19th round as Hader was. He is not in the pedigree of those you have listed making it an apples to oranges comparison. And of course scouts can be wrong. And hopefully the were on Hader.

[TheCrew07]

For every LHP that blooms late there is a statistically appropriate # of RHP like Jake Arrieta, or a failed starter converted to reliever, then back to starter again like Adam Wainwright, someone like Chris Carpenter, even guys like Doug Davis, Kyle Lohse, etc. Handedness has nothing do with athleticism or any of the other factors that determine when a player finally "gets it"... some players just have much farther to go than others.

[CheezWizHed]

Left handers tend to get more chances because there are less of them. Perhaps that lends itself to the perception that more develop late?