Wily Peralta: to the pen, to the minors, or something else?

[pacopete4]

Hader's ERA is microscopic, but he needs to cut down his pitch counts and pitch deeper into games. There's still work to do there.

 

 

I'll take 6 innings pitched and the average of 87 pitches which he has done his last four games. On a normal 100 pitch count he's at least pitching into the 7th or completing 7 innings. The Brewers are conservative with their prospects. Have been for quite awhile. Sure has worked out for them.

[dacbrewers]

The whole western portion of the PCL sucks either because of the altitude, the desert, or both. The biggest issue for pitchers is that breaking balls don't break. I can't imagine trying to develop that pitch when it isn't going to work.

 

Nashville was fine because of the league's unbalanced schedule. Teams in the eastern portion of the league don't travel out west all that much.

 

That's only part of it...The baseballs are different too.

[monty57]

Why does everyone complain so much about Colorado Springs...

 

Colorado Springs is higher in elevation than Denver (6,023 feet vs "mile high"), and there have been many stories written over the years about how hard Denver is on pitchers. As Casey mentioned, pitches don't break, so you're "developing" your pitchers without the ability to work on anything but the fastball, which will fly about 600 feet if hit. Many pitchers have had their confidence shattered playing in Colorado.

 

Plus, if you look at a mountain, you see snow at the top of the mountain. That's where they're playing. Most here are from Wisconsin, so we know how much it sucks to play sports in 30 degree weather and a snowstorm. That's what the team has had to put up with for much of the year.

 

Finally, you are correct that half the games are played on the road, but baseball is about mechanics and repetition. It would be very tough to do things one way at home and another on the road.

 

Colorado Springs is great for putting together a bobsled team, but not for trying to develop and assess your AAA baseball talent. No one wanted to play there, and the Brewers are only there because they got screwed over by Nashville and were stuck with the last option available. They badly want out... so badly that they have given Gord Ash one job, which is to find a suitable AAA "landing spot" that is not Colorado Springs and sign a long-term deal so they don't get stuck like this again.

 

Putting Peralta, whose problems seem to be mental rather than physical, into a situation like that would probably do more harm than good. Promoting promising guys from AA to AAA could harm the development they've shown. This is a bad situation for a team that is in rebuild and almost solely dependent upon developing their talent on the farm.

 

So, to topic, I think the best thing for Peralta is probably to keep throwing him to the wolves at the MLB level for a while longer to see if he can get things straightened out there. As a fan, it isn't much fun to watch a guy flounder, but this year isn't about winning at the MLB level, it is about putting players in the best situation to develop for the future. Peralta turning things around could be huge for the future of the franchise, as he could be a valuable trade chip if he proves he can be a good MLB starting pitcher.

[Roderick]

Why does everyone complain so much about Colorado Springs...

 

They badly want out... so badly that they have given Gord Ash one job, which is to find a suitable AAA "landing spot" that is not Colorado Springs and sign a long-term deal so they don't get stuck like this again.

 

Probably better for the minor league board, but it seemed like from the last article I saw, if you follow the logical chain of events is that we will still be stuck with Colorado Springs for another two year contract after this year. San Antonio would be an option but wouldn't be ready for 2017, iirc.

[1992casey]

AAA and the PCL may be stuck with Colorado Springs, but the Brewers don't need to be stuck there. Other franchises will be available. Gord needs to sell the advantages of signing a working agreement with Milwaukee.

[pacopete4]

I wish their AAA was here in Iowa. That'd be fun!

[djoctagone]

Probably better for the minor league board

agreed. there's a good thread there already:

 

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=33656

[brewcrewdue80]

Putting Peralta, whose problems seem to be mental rather than physical, into a situation like that would probably do more harm than good. Promoting promising guys from AA to AAA could harm the development they've shown. This is a bad situation for a team that is in rebuild and almost solely dependent upon developing their talent on the farm.

 

So, to topic, I think the best thing for Peralta is probably to keep throwing him to the wolves at the MLB level for a while longer to see if he can get things straightened out there. As a fan, it isn't much fun to watch a guy flounder, but this year isn't about winning at the MLB level, it is about putting players in the best situation to develop for the future. Peralta turning things around could be huge for the future of the franchise, as he could be a valuable trade chip if he proves he can be a good MLB starting pitcher.

 

Hader is over 400 IP. Jungmann was around 500IP Lopez and Davies also right around 500IP. He's got enough IP to be promoted. Especially someone who's pitching well. Not like Jungmann who was near 4ERA at AA and above 5 at AAA who's numbers indicate more time needing. He's under 3ERA in 165IP and under 1 with a 12K/9 in 8 starts this season. When is the last time a Brewer pitching prospect offered that after 165IP of AA ball. He's obviously due for a AAA call-up but again that's in Colorado Springs. If you're not going to promote him there, then it needs to happen to the ML level. So he can develop. Something you're suggesting Peralta can accomplish remaining up with the team? But Hader wouldn't get the same development? Wily for what it's worth had just over 160IP for his AA level prior to AAA promotion. Hader has about the same and with at least 10% better numbers to this point. Also can say the progression is equal with Peralta Age 22 of AA-AAA and Age 23 AAA-ML promotion.

 

He and the coaches can gain some knowledge where he needs to improve on with a short call-up. Send Wily down. Send Hader back down when Garza is ready to return, should Wily continue his poor ways in the minors and moves on to the bullpen.

 

To me, the problem could wind up being, he's deserving of some starts now since nobody else appears to be. Wait a month and suddenly Jungmann or Lopez are pitching to where they are worthy of ML starts and now you only reward Hader with a AAA promotion with calling up one of them two.

Pitchers are fickle. One season awesome, the next awful, the 3rd injured. Use up Hader while he's awesome vs finding out he injured himself later this year and never returns to being awesome.

[1992casey]

Jungmann had two 150-plus seasons under his belt when he made his first big league appearance. Plus, he was three years older than Hader.

 

Davies was closer to Hader's age when he came up, but he had been in AAA all year and he had previously had a 148-inning season under his belt. Still, if all goes well for him, he's likely to run into an innings limit at some point this year.

 

This team doesn't need another pitcher that has a very good chance of adding more work for the bullpen. They've had enough to do.

[JohnBriggs12]

What Hader and more importantly his agent don't know he's the best starter in the Brewer minor league system right now? He's in his 3rd season in AA, and he's way, way above the talent level of the league. He's being artificially held back plain and simple. How long can they go and not risk damage to the ability to lock him up a few years from now? Don't think he and his agent won't remember?

 

That's not to say he's a finished product by any means but he's darn good right now. Certainly better than some of the guys they are trotting out there at for major league prices. But finishing school should be the major leagues for talents like him, not seeing AA hitters over and over. It's far worse to hold him back and then see him struggle adjusting to major leagues while the rest of the roster is ready to compete.

 

Not every piece that will be part of the teams that will compete will arrive together. That didn't happen in Chicago and shouldn't happen here.

 

They can shut him down early enough to limit him to around 150 innings. He's got 18-20 starts left to reach that level. That would take him to end of August.

[JohnBriggs12]

Jungmann had two 150-plus seasons under his belt when he made his first big league appearance. Plus, he was three years older than Hader.

 

Davies was closer to Hader's age when he came up, but he had been in AAA all year and he had previously had a 148-inning season under his belt. Still, if all goes well for him, he's likely to run into an innings limit at some point this year.

 

This team doesn't need another pitcher that has a very good chance of adding more work for the bullpen. They've had enough to do.

 

With all due respect, Jungmann and Davies project as 4-5 starters. Jungmann didn't come close to dominating minor leaguers like Hader has. Hader projects as a 1, 2 or at worst a 3. Hader should be compared to Gallardo, who was in the big leagues at 21 after making all of 26 starts combined at AA and AAA. Hader has 404 minor league innings under his belt including 29 starts at AA alone. Gallardo had 380 total innings when he was in big leagues for good at 21, not counting 3 rehab starts after making it in 2008.

 

You actually think Tyler Cravy or Hiram Burgos would save the bullpen more than Hader? Really??

[tmwiese55]

Wouldn't surprise me if Hader goes right from AA to the bigs. Might be this year or if they want to save his clock it might not be until next year but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't mess with him and having him pitch in Co Springs.

[1992casey]

Gallardo had a 155-inning season under his belt when he came up.

[And That]

He's in his 3rd season in AA

He has 164 IP at the AA level - saying he's been there for 3 seasons now is misleading.

 

Hader projects as a 1, 2 or at worst a 3.

You'd have a hard time finding a pro scout saying that Hader projects as a #1, or even a #2. Most of what I've seen is middle of the rotation guy, or premium bullpen arm. Until he improves his command, I'd have to agree.

[And That]

Peralta will start on Friday.

[wildcat2237]

I would have liked to have seen the Brewers grab Lincecum. I think the Angels got a bargain there assuming they didn't give Lincecum multiple years.

[MrTPlush]

Josh Hader is not being brought up. All you guys are doing is beating a dead horse. No...no...no. There is no legitimate reason to outweigh keeping him in the minors. I would be shocked to see him called up. Doesn't seems very Stearns like.

 

And upsetting Hader and his agent is a bunch of Bologna. Every agent knows how the process works as does every player. It has been this way for years. It would effect NOTHING in the future. What is he going to walk away for $10mil less because years ago we held him back a year? No I think not. You offer him the most money or what he wants and we can have him as long as we dream.

[brewcrewdue80]

Josh Hader is not being brought up. All you guys are doing is beating a dead horse. No...no...no.There is no legitimate reason to outweigh keeping him in the minors I would be shocked to see him called up. Doesn't seems very Stearns like.

 

 

What are the reasons to keep him in the minors?

[tmwiese55]

I don't recall if they're for sure stuck in Co Springs next year but maybe they're hoping for someplace new. So he can get his innings up in AA this year, then somewhere new next year in AAA until they deem him ready. I just think he's doing so well they might not mess with him by going to Co Springs. AA until the bigs, whenever that is.

[MrTPlush]

Josh Hader is not being brought up. All you guys are doing is beating a dead horse. No...no...no.There is no legitimate reason to outweigh keeping him in the minors I would be shocked to see him called up. Doesn't seems very Stearns like.

 

 

What are the reasons to keep him in the minors?

 

There is the argument that he hasn't been efficient and needs to work on going farther into games. However we all know the real and only reason he is(almost surely) going to be in the minors till September at the earliest. To save a year of service time and avoid Super Two service time.

 

I could see the argument if this team looked like it could compete next year(or heck even 2018), but we are not. We can afford to hold him another year and then get him that MLB experience. The problem is we aren't going to compete in the near future so rushing him is unnecessary. I would love to see him this year so he can start gaining that experience, but losing a year of control for it? Maybe not.

[1992casey]

I don't recall if they're for sure stuck in Co Springs next year…

The working agreement ends this year.

[brewcrewdue80]

Josh Hader is not being brought up. All you guys are doing is beating a dead horse. No...no...no.There is no legitimate reason to outweigh keeping him in the minors I would be shocked to see him called up. Doesn't seems very Stearns like.

 

 

What are the reasons to keep him in the minors?

 

There is the argument that he hasn't been efficient and needs to work on going farther into games. However we all know the real and only reason he is(almost surely) going to be in the minors till September at the earliest. To save a year of service time and avoid Super Two service time.

 

I could see the argument if this team looked like it could compete next year(or heck even 2018), but we are not. We can afford to hold him another year and then get him that MLB experience. The problem is we aren't going to compete in the near future so rushing him is unnecessary. I would love to see him this year so he can start gaining that experience, but losing a year of control for it? Maybe not.

 

Or you could say limiting to less to 90pitches in all of his starts doesn't allow him to pitch deeper in games. Maybe part of that comes with limiting his Innings so he can Start more games throughout the season.

 

Any date later in June he'll be far past Super 2 potential. Waiting to Sept is about when one would expect he'd approach 150IP. Somewhere along the lines where you'd begin to want to limit his Innings or shut him down. He was allowed 3 games of 90+ pitches last season. 5IP 1ER 10ks, 7IP 3ER 6Ks, 7IP 3ER 8Ks. He was shut down after his following start the first week of September. Hasn't allowed more than 3runs in last 13starts. and 1 4runs in last 19starts. You can always hold him down some starts early in 2017 especially if his first few don't go the way you'd like. In that instance Colorado will benefit holding him down as likely a bloated ERA to say we believe he's not ready to call up.

 

I want to see some of the future play and have a clue on what 2017 will bring. Not go in to 2017 and Hader/Arcia/Phillips and even Reed haven't logged in any ML appearances to know what one can expect in growth or even production. Forcing them to wait another year likely forces their production to wait another year. Get games 2016. Sophomore slump 2017. Studs 2018. Get games 2017...well slump 2018. studs 2019.

 

Either or on any of the team control will come with Post Super 2 on these 3. I can't fathom Arcia being in AAA all season and then til Mid-June next season. You play them in September, means sitting them in to July to reach that post Super 2. As it stands payroll for the Brewers in 2years will be what? 41million? Team isn't going to go out there and sign 20+million contracts on the Free Agent Market. But extending these guys IF they perform to 10-17mil whatever the value is beyond the team control shouldn't hurt this team for 10years.

[djoctagone]

if chris capuano's return is delayed or if they designate him for assignment, i predict peralta is moved to the bullpen.

 

but if capuano returns healthy and matt garza returns to the rotation, i think peralta will be optioned to the minors.

[Point Beer Is Best]

if chris capuano's return is delayed or if they designate him for assignment, i predict peralta is moved to the bullpen.

 

but if capuano returns healthy and matt garza returns to the rotation, i think peralta will be optioned to the minors.

 

Wasn't it established earlier that optioning Peralta to the minors isn't viable because he'd first have to pass through waivers?

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm joining the DL club. I think he goes on 15 day DL with tired arm or whatever they want to call it, buys some time to figure out what to do with him.