Wily Peralta: to the pen, to the minors, or something else?

[Jenkins5]

Hader/Capuano, keep it lefty and good to go. Honestly, Colorado Springs has Lopez all messed up right now, Hader should never place a foot there. He needs to be skipped over. Moreover, if they are sending Wily down over going to the pen, send him to Biloxi where he can dominate a little and really figure crap out. Like with Jungmann, what is point of sending them down to Springs where you know what the result will be.

 

Honestly, throw him in the pen and work through it. He sits 95-96 for entire start. Let him go out and fire it 97-98 for inning or two. Hopefully he can get at least on of his off-speed pitches to work for him. His fastballs are useless right now and hittable because he can not get off-speed to work at all. 95-97 is nothing when that is only pitch you need to wait for during an AB.His FB also hasn't been very heavy lately which he needs.

[Outlander]

I don't think Hader is on a low pitch count but more a strict pitch count. Has been at 83-89 pitches every game thus far.

[FVBrewerFan]

Exactly. And no reason to change that plan. I don't care if they have to bring Suppan back, Hader needs to stay in Biloxi all year. I don't really care if they want to bring him up for a start or two in September. Coin flip, but I probably wouldn't even do that.

[MrTPlush]

Hader is not being called up. So next option.

[1992casey]

Josh needs to increase his innings totals before he comes to the majors. He's on a pace to pitch about 125 innings this year, which is approximately the same amount of innings he pitched each the last two seasons. That isn't enough unless the decision is made to turn him into a reliever.

 

It'd be nice to suggest that he can aim for 150 innings this season, but that isn't possible until he can turn his pitch counts into more innings per start.

[FVBrewerFan]

True, but he could easily hit 150 innings this season. If he averages 6 innings (which he's done his last 3 starts) he'll be around 170 innings. And that doesn't include the playoffs or fall league. That gives him a pretty nice cushion to hit 150 innings.

 

But you're right, he needs to focus on doing that in AA all year, just no way you bring him up to MLB when he's still in the process of stretching out his innings/season.

[1992casey]

I did the calculation based in having 34.67 innings in 1.5 months, then stretching out to five months. Using an actual calculator vs. simply doing the math mentally like I did before, that turns into 116 innings. What's your methodology for reaching 150—170 innings? Are you assuming a September callup?

[FVBrewerFan]

I did the calculation based in having 34.67 innings in 1.5 months, then stretching out to five months. Using an actual calculator vs. simply doing the math mentally, that turns into 116 innings. What's your methodology for reaching 150—170 innings? Are you assuming a September callup?

 

No Sept call-up. 35 innings to date. Projecting 22 more starts @6 innings each =132, for a total of 167.

 

I don't think using avg innings to date is very accurate, because they started him off very slowly. Yes, he won't necessarily average 6 innings/start the rest of the season, but again the playoffs and AFL gives him a cushion too. That's how I came up with that range. Of course if he misses any time for injury, that's unforeseen and all bets are off.

[monty57]

Honestly, Colorado Springs has Lopez all messed up right now, Hader should never place a foot there. He needs to be skipped over. Moreover, if they are sending Wily down over going to the pen, send him to Biloxi where he can dominate a little and really figure crap out. Like with Jungmann, what is point of sending them down to Springs where you know what the result will be.

 

They cannot get out of Colorado fast enough. I'd rather have them play in a cow pasture in Iowa next year then face another year in Colorado.

 

In a normal situation, Peralta should be sent to AAA. There, he could work on figuring things out, and if he can't do that, he could make the transition to the 'pen, while the team would probably get another year's service time out of what could be a dominant reliever. With Colorado being the AAA team, there isn't really a way for him to figure things out other than sending him all the way down to AA, which would mean one of the SP from Biloxi (most of whom are promising prospects) would have to get screwed up at Colorado.

[1992casey]

No Sept call-up. 35 innings to date. Projecting 22 more starts @6 innings each =132, for a total of 167.

 

I don't think using avg innings to date is very accurate, because they started him off very slowly. Yes, he won't necessarily average 6 innings/start the rest of the season, but again the playoffs and AFL gives him a cushion too. That's how I came up with that range. Of course if he misses any time for injury, that's unforeseen and all bets are off.

That makes sense. However, I think projecting 6 innings per start from here on out may be a little high. However, even if he manages an average of 5 innings per start over 22 outings, that still gives us 144 innings, which is a lot more optimistic that 115–125.

 

Given all that, I think that 150 innings or so is a responsible cap for this season unless his pitch counts are so low that he can safely absorb a few more innings. Actually, I'd rather do this entire calculation based on pitch counts, easy innings, difficult innings, etc. Teams have computers to do that, but most of the rest of us don't.

[FVBrewerFan]

I haven't collaborated with someone on a math project in over 25 years, that was fun

[StearnsFTW]

Honestly, Colorado Springs has Lopez all messed up right now, Hader should never place a foot there. He needs to be skipped over. Moreover, if they are sending Wily down over going to the pen, send him to Biloxi where he can dominate a little and really figure crap out. Like with Jungmann, what is point of sending them down to Springs where you know what the result will be.

 

They cannot get out of Colorado fast enough. I'd rather have them play in a cow pasture in Iowa next year then face another year in Colorado.

 

In a normal situation, Peralta should be sent to AAA. There, he could work on figuring things out, and if he can't do that, he could make the transition to the 'pen, while the team would probably get another year's service time out of what could be a dominant reliever. With Colorado being the AAA team, there isn't really a way for him to figure things out other than sending him all the way down to AA, which would mean one of the SP from Biloxi (most of whom are promising prospects) would have to get screwed up at Colorado.

 

Yep. As many pitchers as possible (that we care about) should skip Colorado. Such a dumb place for a AAA team.

[JohnBriggs12]

Hader dominated again tonight. He's got around 400 pro innings. Chris Sale, who Hader's delivery has been compared to had 14 IP in the minors total. Brewers are risking stunting his development and certainly are hurting his earning power and that's not going to sit well with his agent. Brewers are being pennywise and pound foolish.

[pacopete4]

Hader dominated again tonight. He's got around 400 pro innings. Chris Sale, who Hader's delivery has been compared to had 14 IP in the minors total. Brewers are risking stunting his development and certainly are hurting his earning power and that's not going to sit well with his agent. Brewers are being pennywise and pound foolish.

 

 

I'm right there with ya Briggs. No reason to hold back a pitcher who is ready. Unfortunately the economics of baseball continue to ruin things. Can't even put your best rotation at the major league level.

[homer]

Hader dominated again tonight. He's got around 400 pro innings. Chris Sale, who Hader's delivery has been compared to had 14 IP in the minors total. Brewers are risking stunting his development and certainly are hurting his earning power and that's not going to sit well with his agent. Brewers are being pennywise and pound foolish.

 

Sale also debuted for a Sox team that won 88 games.

[FVBrewerFan]

Hader dominated again tonight. He's got around 400 pro innings. Chris Sale, who Hader's delivery has been compared to had 14 IP in the minors total. Brewers are risking stunting his development and certainly are hurting his earning power and that's not going to sit well with his agent. Brewers are being pennywise and pound foolish.

 

 

I'm right there with ya Briggs. No reason to hold back a pitcher who is ready. Unfortunately the economics of baseball continue to ruin things. Can't even put your best rotation at the major league level.

 

You realize you just said there's no reason then name the reason? Yes, it does suck economics dictate things, especially for the smallest of small markets. Hader in Milwaukee this year does no good for anyone.

 

And service time is not the only issue. As we discussed above, he is not ready to log that many innings yet this year. None of us know what's best for his development, but I'll give the nod to his coaches and player development people.

[pacopete4]

Hader dominated again tonight. He's got around 400 pro innings. Chris Sale, who Hader's delivery has been compared to had 14 IP in the minors total. Brewers are risking stunting his development and certainly are hurting his earning power and that's not going to sit well with his agent. Brewers are being pennywise and pound foolish.

 

 

I'm right there with ya Briggs. No reason to hold back a pitcher who is ready. Unfortunately the economics of baseball continue to ruin things. Can't even put your best rotation at the major league level.

 

You realize you just said there's no reason then name the reason? Yes, it does suck economics dictate things, especially for the smallest of small markets. Hader in Milwaukee this year does no good for anyone.

 

And service time is not the only issue. As we discussed above, he is not ready to log that many innings yet this year. None of us know what's best for his development, but I'll give the nod to his coaches and player development people.

 

 

Economics aren't an issue for me. I would put together the best players I could at a major league level. I wouldn't care if they were 18-23 year olds as long as they are good. Who knows what bringing up a stud like Hader would do for Milwaukee.

[jerichoholicninja]

Economics aren't an issue for me. I would put together the best players I could at a major league level. I wouldn't care if they were 18-23 year olds as long as they are good. Who knows what bringing up a stud like Hader would do for Milwaukee.

 

Push their win total from 70 to 72 is about it. Even without economics I don't see much of a reason to bring him up this season.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

Economics aren't an issue for me. I would put together the best players I could at a major league level. I wouldn't care if they were 18-23 year olds as long as they are good. Who knows what bringing up a stud like Hader would do for Milwaukee.

 

 

But economics (and service time) are an issue for the big league club. They're not competing this year. Why burn a year of service time when he's not stretched out enough to throw more than 150 innings, for one thing, and still is fighting with consistency to routinely make it into, and finish the 6th inning?

 

That may not matter to you as a fan, but it certainly does to the club when looking at the long term picture of who will be manning the rotation 4-5 years from now. Cost certainty 3-4-5 years from now. All of those things matter, and tossing a year of service time, and a year of Hader's prime years away to FA just to win a possible 3-4 more games this year in an already lost year is horribly short-sighted.

[endaround]

Hader is 22. There is no reason to push him and his arm. There is a burning a year of service time when its questionable if he is ready. There is also the fact that he is a pitcher. Pitchers get hurt. Pitchers get hurt a lot. If he gets hurt in Milwaukee that few months of service time turns into years of service time rehabbing on the DL.

 

Similarly there is no reason to bring up either Arcia or Phillips this year.

[brewcrewdue80]

Okay in the idea of his service time and wasting a year. Well you would use up the days he's on the ML roster. When he reaches his limits you option him to the Minors and shut him down. I'd assume stopping his service clock. Little different concerns on service clock with Pitchers vs. a position player like Arcia. If you call up Hader you likely use an option and send him down after a start or 3. Same can be said for next season. Season after that. It's highly unlikely he's going to remain in the Major League roster once he reaches it without ever needing to be sent down.

This thread is about Wily who's being questioned to be demoted. It took 3+years but a demotion would reduce his clock if he sat down in the minors long enough.

Burgos doesn't even have service time after his 6starts in '13.

 

The one thing likely keeping Hader down is 40man status. He'd have to be added. Probably something that won't be an issue in a couple months after a few trades. You can bring back Jungmann or Cravy as their service clock would appear to be a non-factor. Just, anyone that sends Peralta down for the time being. Replacing a 7ERA shouldn't come with serious expectations of either of the two.

[1992casey]

Burgos doesn't even have service time after his 6starts in '13.

 

He has 71 days, although it sure doesn't seem like his time here added up to that much.

[dacbrewers]

Honestly, Colorado Springs has Lopez all messed up right now, Hader should never place a foot there. He needs to be skipped over. Moreover, if they are sending Wily down over going to the pen, send him to Biloxi where he can dominate a little and really figure crap out. Like with Jungmann, what is point of sending them down to Springs where you know what the result will be.

 

They cannot get out of Colorado fast enough. I'd rather have them play in a cow pasture in Iowa next year then face another year in Colorado.

 

In a normal situation, Peralta should be sent to AAA. There, he could work on figuring things out, and if he can't do that, he could make the transition to the 'pen, while the team would probably get another year's service time out of what could be a dominant reliever. With Colorado being the AAA team, there isn't really a way for him to figure things out other than sending him all the way down to AA, which would mean one of the SP from Biloxi (most of whom are promising prospects) would have to get screwed up at Colorado.

 

Why does everyone complain so much about Colorado Springs...The Coaches and Managers in the whole organization know the situation. They don't take it out on the pitchers. The manager and pitching coach stated in pregame interviews that they basically want them to go out there and throw strikes, is that asking too much? They understand a pop up with the wind blowing 30 mph that gets out of the park is going to happen. Remember half the games are on the road. You might have an ERA of 5 or 6 at home but hopefully on the road it's better. If you put a yearly era under 4 at Colorado Springs, it's pretty darn good. Bottom Line, If you don't throw strikes your going to get into trouble, ask Lopez about that. He was better last outing, hopefully he continues to throw strikes.

[1992casey]

The whole western portion of the PCL sucks either because of the altitude, the desert, or both. The biggest issue for pitchers is that breaking balls don't break. I can't imagine trying to develop that pitch when it isn't going to work.

 

Nashville was fine because of the league's unbalanced schedule. Teams in the eastern portion of the league don't travel out west all that much.

[Austin Tatious]

Hader's ERA is microscopic, but he needs to cut down his pitch counts and pitch deeper into games. There's still work to do there.