2016-04-28 Brewers (Jungmann) at Cubs (Arrieta), 1:20 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 7-2]

[JohnBriggs12]

At this point I won't be making a trip to Miller Park unless I know Nelson is pitching.

 

Last I checked attendance was down about 3,000 a game from last year so you are not alone though we know the Cub fans will fill it up a bunch of times.

[yfinn6]

I think Luc should keep calling for that terrible curveball from Jungmann on a full count, seeing as how it has missed just about every single time.

 

Hernan making his debut?

[And That]

Not only the curveball, but Jungmann's change was complete garbage today. Have to wonder if they'll make a move with him soon.

[1992casey]

Those all allowed hits though. The question that was posed, that I also don't have an answer to, is what if they don't allow a hit? So say the final stat line is: Pitcher A. L. 9 IP 0 h 1 R 1 ER 4 BB. Is it still a no hitter? I would think probably?

Yeah, I went through the whole list in the article that CheezWizHed linked to, and there was no example that matched those criteria.

[topper09er]

Those all allowed hits though. The question that was posed, that I also don't have an answer to, is what if they don't allow a hit? So say the final stat line is: Pitcher A. L. 9 IP 0 h 1 R 1 ER 4 BB. Is it still a no hitter? I would think probably?

 

No it needs to be a complete game with no hits or there is no no-hitter. You can have combined no-hitters, but the opposing team cannot get any hits ever in the game for it to count as a no-hitter.

 

The Babe Ruth/Ernie Shore game is a decent example of this. Ruth walked the first batter, was ejected for arguing balls and strikes. Ernie Shore came in, the runner was caught stealing, and Shore faced the minimum 26 the rest of the way. Shore was the pitcher when all 27 outs were recorded with no one reaching base, but he is not credited with a perfect game. Ruth and Shore are credited with a combined no-hitter only.

[QuevedosTongue]

Villar owns Arrieta!!

[topper09er]

According to the Play Index, the only game in MLB history (or at least since 1913) where the starting pitcher went 9 or more innings without giving up a hit OR getting the decision, was this combined no-hitter by Francisco Cordova.

 

So it looks like the scenario of 9 innings with no hits but then another pitcher giving up an extra inning hit has never happened.

[TheEndless7]

Those all allowed hits though. The question that was posed, that I also don't have an answer to, is what if they don't allow a hit? So say the final stat line is: Pitcher A. L. 9 IP 0 h 1 R 1 ER 4 BB. Is it still a no hitter? I would think probably?

 

No it needs to be a complete game with no hits or there is no no-hitter. You can have combined no-hitters, but the opposing team cannot get any hits ever in the game for it to count as a no-hitter.

 

The Babe Ruth/Ernie Shore game is a decent example of this. Ruth walked the first batter, was ejected for arguing balls and strikes. Ernie Shore came in, the runner was caught stealing, and Shore faced the minimum 26 the rest of the way. Shore was the pitcher when all 27 outs were recorded with no one reaching base, but he is not credited with a perfect game. Ruth and Shore are credited with a combined no-hitter only.

 

 

In the above situation, though, would the losing pitcher not get credit for a complete game? IE didn't Capuano pitch an 8 IP complete game years ago? I understand that a no hitter must be 9 innings, but again, if he's pitched 9, and then falls apart and we'll say walks the bases loaded and walks in a run in the 10th, he's met the 9 inning criteria of the rule, as the rule does say 'at least 9 innings'. So he would have:

 

1. Pitched 9 innings.

2. Faced every batter that was in the game and recorded every out or decision or whatever you'd like to call it in the game. And

3: Not allowed a hit.

 

I don't see anything in the rule that states that getting a no hitter requires 'winning' the game. In my mind that does meet all of MLBs criteria.

 

You can even expand it, say it's a visiting pitcher and he gets two outs in the eleventh before walked the bases loaded and in a run. Does pitching 10.2 innings not get you a complete game if no other out is recorded? Is 10.2 1 ER 0 h 4BB not a 'complete game'? I don't see how that, given the context of 'at least nine innings' wouldn't be a no hitter despite the loss.

 

I mean it is perfectly possible to throw a no hitter and lose as a home pitcher. Is it not considered a no hitter if you're at home and you give up a run (unearned, walks, whatever) but still go 9 and lose?

[MrTPlush]

Why would it be a no hitter if a hit was given up in the game? If someone on your team gives up a hit there cannot be a no hitter. Does not matter how many innings you personally go. If that is the scenario you are proposing.

 

You can lose the game(give up runs) and have a no hitter though.

[TheEndless7]

The scenario in question was that how, by the definition of the rule, if you throw an 8 IP complete game and do not allow a hit and lose, it is not a no hitter, because the rule was changed to require 9 innings.

 

The scenario that got questioned then was essentially: what if it goes extras and the deciding run is not the result of any hits. The counter examples first proposed were examples where there were a hit in extra, not where the team won but did not get a hit. So if an 8 IP no-no loss is not considered a no no, what if the same thing happens but in the 10th rather than in the first 9.

[1992casey]

Here are the MLB perfect game and no-hitter rules…

 

Perfect games and No-hitters:

 

An official perfect game occurs when a pitcher (or pitchers) retires each batter on the opposing team during the entire course of a game, which consists of at least nine innings. In a perfect game, no batter reaches any base during the course of the game.

 

An official no-hit game occurs when a pitcher (or pitchers) allows no hits during the entire course of a game, which consists of at least nine innings. In a no-hit game, a batter may reach base via a walk, an error, a hit by pitch, a passed ball or wild pitch on strike three, or catcher's interference.

The way I read this, it appears that combined no hitters are still allowed as long as nine innings of pitching is involved. And it would be possible to be on the losing end of a no-hitter.

[MrTPlush]

And it would be possible to be on the losing end of a no-hitter.

 

I believe there was one guy in the 1960s that is the only man in history to manage a loss while throwing a no-hitter by himself.

[Outlander]

Yes it is a no hitter if no hits are allowed and it is 9 innings or greater. The pitcher can lose and pitch 9, 10, 11.1, 12.2, doesn't matter.

[topper09er]

Here are the MLB perfect game and no-hitter rules…

 

Perfect games and No-hitters:

 

An official perfect game occurs when a pitcher (or pitchers) retires each batter on the opposing team during the entire course of a game, which consists of at least nine innings. In a perfect game, no batter reaches any base during the course of the game.

 

An official no-hit game occurs when a pitcher (or pitchers) allows no hits during the entire course of a game, which consists of at least nine innings. In a no-hit game, a batter may reach base via a walk, an error, a hit by pitch, a passed ball or wild pitch on strike three, or catcher's interference.

The way I read this, it appears that combined no hitters are still allowed as long as nine innings of pitching is involved. And it would be possible to be on the losing end of a no-hitter.

 

The key is that MLB does not consider a no-hitter a player specific event, but a game specific event. Either a game is a no-hitter or it was not. In terms of who gets credit for the game, if it is only 1 pitcher then its all him, if there are multiple pitchers then it is combined.

 

There is no such thing as a partial game no-hitter, even if that partial game was a full 9 innings

[topper09er]

And it would be possible to be on the losing end of a no-hitter.

 

I believe there was one guy in the 1960s that is the only man in history to manage a loss while throwing a no-hitter by himself.

 

Here it is, Ken Johnson I think there was another scenario with a combined no-hitter from the losing team

[MrTPlush]

We kept Arrieta to 5 innings and scored a run on him at home. We can turn this season around!!

[topper09er]

Related trivia to the no-hitter discussion, how is it possible to throw a perfect game while still committing an error?

[1992casey]

It's not possible, and it never was. By definition, nobody reaches base in a perfect game.

 

It used to be that a perfect game could end up in a tie, but with recent rule changes, tie games aren't possible anymore.

[MrTPlush]

Related trivia to the no-hitter discussion, how is it possible to throw a perfect game while still committing an error?

 

Drop a foul ball.

[Lee16]

I was wondering what that loud chime was outside earlier, it was Jungmann turning back into a pumpkin.

[MrTPlush]

Wow Villar. Solid defense today.

[yfinn6]

You have GOT to be kidding me with that rundown nonsense.

[topper09er]

Related trivia to the no-hitter discussion, how is it possible to throw a perfect game while still committing an error?

 

Drop a foul ball.

 

Correct, although it has never happened. Coincidentally Hill was almost charged with a dropped foul ball error today (which I would say is ironic if I didn't know what that word meant)

[trwi7]

Well that was one of the funniest things I've ever seen on a baseball field.

[topper09er]

Who is the only Wisconsin born player to throw a perfect game?