Too early to judge... (Segura trade)

[BrewersAA]

There is something frustrating about seeing segura go 3-5 at the top of the D-backs lineup (.338/.949) and Tyler Wagner (0.00 era) go 5 scoreless against Cueto and the Giants. It's abviously wayyyy to early to judge that trade, and when it happened it felt like we got a lot, but I've always been a Wagner fan and didn't like his inclusion.

 

What are your opinions on this trade so far?

[DougJonesChangeUp]

At least Fiers is getting shelled.

 

Hard to judge any trade right now, plus it seems like we are trying to tank this year with bums like Freeman still on the roster. So no, I don't think long term they were what we wanted.

 

Trade pretty much hinges on Isan Diaz and what he does in 2-3 years when we should be peaking. I like Wagner but him and Anderson will probably be similar in production.

[pacopete4]

Waaaaayyyy too early to even look at it. We are 20 games into the season. Also it has been mentioned several times that Jean needed to go. He might be an all start again but he still needed a fresh start somewhere else. It is what it is after that point.

[jerichoholicninja]

I was personally done with Segura awhile ago so I'm just glad to see him gone. Don't really care what he does elsewhere. The Brewers gave up a failed middle infielder and a possible bullpen arm for an average major league starter with control, a high upside prospect, and an overpaid veteran to play a position while not blocking any prospects. It's a win in my book no matter what happens going forward.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yea, I said at the time I didn't like including Wagner. Segura straight up for Diaz would have been fine, or even take on Hill's contract to sweeten the deal. But the Wagner/Anderson part of the trade bothered me, and still does. Wagner is better and 3 years younger. I get he's not THAT much better than Anderson, but he is better IMHO.

 

As for Segura, maybe he does put it all together. If he does, good for him. No way to predict that would have happened and we'll never know if a change in scenery had a lot to do with it.

[QuevedosTongue]

Losing Wagner just doesn't seem like that big a deal, particularly considering they got Anderson back. Neither is more than a back-end guy; they are essentially guys that will pitch well at times but don't have the stuff to sustain success. They might be part of a rotation for a few years, but a team would always be looking to upgrade from them.

 

I don't get the people who want the guys Stearns traded to play poorly. The trade is done, there doesn't seem to be any reason to wish bad things on the traded players. His time here was done anyway, whoever was at SS this season was going to be nothing more than a placeholder for Arcia anyway.

[pacopete4]

His time here was done anyway, whoever was at SS this season was going to be nothing more than a placeholder for Arcia anyway.

 

 

This is most likely the case but the fact that Jean is playing 2B right now opens the door that he could have coexisted in Milwaukee with Arcia eventually. The things that went against him in that department is that he was entering arby years where he was getting very expensive for the production he was providing and he just wasn't a good player for us for over 2 straight years. It was time.

 

 

To add on the Wagner/Anderson deal. I agree. It is a toss up between those two really. Yeah Wagner is younger but we also received a guy to play 3B for us this season and a young stud. I'll take that with this trade any day. And no I'm not saying Hill is great but he has provided good defense and as JohnBriggs12 pointed out, he has had some real tough luck at the plate. His line drive % is up there and doesn't match up with his average. It'll even itself out, hopefully.

[Boomer5]

I get completely why they traded Segura and why they picked up much of Hill's contract in exchange for Diaz. I have no idea what possible benefit the Anderson/Wagner portion was unless it was to flip Anderson down the road.

[fondybrewfan]

Segura is off to a pretty good start and Wagner had one good outing. Meanwhile Gomez has been pretty terrible, Davis has been pretty terrible, and outside of the no-hitter last year Fiers has been average at best. It may be frustrating to see Segura figure it out all of a sudden but in the overall pictures I think the Brewers made out pretty good from all those trades.

[I Heart Brewers]

I don't think Segura would be putting those type of numbers up in MKE. He needed a change of scenery after everything he had gone through the past few years. I'm glad he's having a good start and if the Brewers lose this trade so be it. Just guessing but at the time I don't think they could have done much better. I'm guessing Stearns took the best offer and ran with it.

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't think Segura would be putting those type of numbers up in MKE. He needed a change of scenery after everything he had gone through the past few years. I'm glad he's having a good start and if the Brewers lose this trade so be it. Just guessing but at the time I don't think they could have done much better. I'm guessing Stearns took the best offer and ran with it.

 

Segura is still young. Moving might have helped him some, but he could have bounced back here. Stearns obviously liked Villar more, I think in large part because he though Villar might fit at 3B when Arcia arrives and he didn't see Segura there. The way Segura is going, he'd fit just about anywhere. He won't keep this pace up, but the knock on him was "he had 2 good months and that's it". Well now he's had 3 including the most recent. Considering where Segura was this winter, the trade was good, but the one risk in it was that they were selling low. If he keeps hitting, then that will be proven to be true.

[3and2Fastball]

The key to that trade is Isan Diaz. We likely won't know if it was a good trade for 5 years

[JohnBriggs12]

Segura is off to a pretty good start and Wagner had one good outing. Meanwhile Gomez has been pretty terrible, Davis has been pretty terrible, and outside of the no-hitter last year Fiers has been average at best. It may be frustrating to see Segura figure it out all of a sudden but in the overall pictures I think the Brewers made out pretty good from all those trades.

 

Be careful not to judge the Davis trade too quickly. We all know how streaky he is and he's raised his OPS from .387 to .486 in his last 2 games. If he goes on one of his 2 week hot streaks, he might be over .800 by Mothers Day.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I don't think Segura is suddenly a .900 OPS hitter. He's off to a good start and I wish him well. Judging a trade by how well the player does for the other team is a fool's gambit anyways. You take what you take and you move on. Anderson has had a few good starts (and a bad one) and .....well ok, Hill has been really bad.

 

The other side of this coin is that Johnathan Villar so far has been really good for us. I know he wasn't part of that trade, but he's playing every day and putting up a .400 OBP. Trades don't exist in a vacuum, and even when Villar gets displaced by Arcia, if he continues to be a .750+ OPS hitter, he'll be a valuable trade piece or a 3B/2B utility guy, or SOMETHING of value to this team.

[pacopete4]

Segura is off to a pretty good start and Wagner had one good outing. Meanwhile Gomez has been pretty terrible, Davis has been pretty terrible, and outside of the no-hitter last year Fiers has been average at best. It may be frustrating to see Segura figure it out all of a sudden but in the overall pictures I think the Brewers made out pretty good from all those trades.

 

 

Don't forget Lind. He's been atrocious out in Seattle.

 

 

Like many have stated, it is just too early to judge. Not enough out there to make a consensus on any of the trades. We may not have liked to include Wagner but we also don't know what it would have taken to get Diaz back from the trade. I like the fact that we received a pitcher who is steady and controllable. Wagner might be the same but if it got us Diaz, perfect.

[dlk9s]

Like I said in another thread about this same topic, I'm not going to root for Segura and others to fail just so the Brewers end of the trade looks better. I hope he has a wonderful career.

[MrTPlush]

Look at Segura's April stats over the course of his career.

 

If you are wondering he hits over .300 in his career during April/May and then reverts to the scrub he is. I would expect the same until he proves otherwise. If you forgot he started off amazing last April too.

[Roderick]

Like I said in another thread about this same topic, I'm not going to root for Segura and others to fail just so the Brewers end of the trade looks better. I hope he has a wonderful career.

 

The best case scenario is if both teams win on the trade (but especially the Brewers). Teams are more likely to trade with you.

 

Lets say the Astros need a catcher. If Gomez and Fiers are sucking, while Santana and the minors are doing great from our end, do we think the Astros would realistically want to trade for Lucroy and risk having another high-profile trade with Milwaukee blowup in their face?

[BrewersAA]

awesome feedback guys. Two things;

 

1. I am not at all rooting for Jean or Tyler to fail, not sure why thats being implied... Its simply frustrating that Segura NOW (finally) is showing the promise that made him the center of the Grienke trade, but its for arizona and not milwuakee. I was also frustrated that Wagner was included as i was always a big fan of his throughout the minors and thought he really didnt get a fair shake of a look for the crew last year.

 

2. this was not meant to be an indictment of Stearns or any of his other trades. I am assuming that has been a hot topic in other threads, but not my intentions here. I wanted to look at just this move and see if it frustrated anyone else.

 

On Stearns, im a big fan so far. I was lucky enough to hear billy beane speak during spring training this year and i thought it was really interesting how far ahead of everyone he seems to be. the best way to explain is he said every year the model changes as teams try to copy. so what they found in the mid 2000s was that the most 'overpaid' trait in baseball was speed and the most 'underpaid' was onbase% and when they weighted the "tools" against expected wins OBP was the second highest indicator and speed was the lowest. then he said, "do you think we are still trying to underpay for OBP?? NO, because the yankees and everyone with money saw what we were doing and copied buy buying the tool, its now the most overpaid." so, this whole story is to say that since stearns learned from him i am really hoping he is applying the same principles and models. Until he proves otherwise, he has my vote! The one uneasy thing, though, is he said the GM should always be the dumbest guy in the room, not the smartest, and a few of the stearns moves have a look of trying to be the smartest guy in the room.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

Looks like Billy is following the money trail. Seems to me you would have to find the most effective traits correlating to success rather than what you can find for the cheapest.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm confused about the concern of trading Wagner and getting Anderson back. Is it just because Wagner is younger? Nothing about Tyler's minor league numbers looks special.

[Boomer5]

Segura is off to a pretty good start and Wagner had one good outing. Meanwhile Gomez has been pretty terrible, Davis has been pretty terrible, and outside of the no-hitter last year Fiers has been average at best. It may be frustrating to see Segura figure it out all of a sudden but in the overall pictures I think the Brewers made out pretty good from all those trades.

 

Be careful not to judge the Davis trade too quickly. We all know how streaky he is and he's raised his OPS from .387 to .486 in his last 2 games. If he goes on one of his 2 week hot streaks, he might be over .800 by Mothers Day.

 

Considering how Nottingham is playing I doubt either side is too happy at the moment.

[pacopete4]

 

Considering how Nottingham is playing I doubt either side is too happy at the moment.

 

 

Davis doesn't have two dingers like Nottingham does!

 

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm confused about the concern of trading Wagner and getting Anderson back. Is it just because Wagner is younger? Nothing about Tyler's minor league numbers looks special.

 

I guess it depends on what numbers you want to look at, but 2014 in Brevard he had 1.86 ERA and 1.11 WHIP. Better yet, last year he had 2.25 ERA and 1.15 WHIP at Biloxi. Not sure if "special" is the right word, but that's really good.

[StearnsFTW]

I'm confused about the concern of trading Wagner and getting Anderson back. Is it just because Wagner is younger? Nothing about Tyler's minor league numbers looks special.

 

Agree. I'd rather have Anderson.