Eric Thames

[JohnBriggs12]

Eric Thames, former major leaguer who's put up incredible numbers in Korea the past couple seasons is a FA after this year. Apparently he's not only flashing incredible power, with 84 HR combined in 14-15, and a high BA and OBP, but he's also stealing bases and playing some 1B. He's also saying he's considering a return to MLB.

 

Carter's off to a nice start in the power department, and maybe he'll sustain it to the degree where you bring him back (he's under control through 2018), but if not, Thames might be worth a look as a left handed power bat to compliment the newly found power lefty hitter in Gennett, especially if he can play 1B. He'd also be a nice fit if they did happen to deal Braun.

 

Thames doesn't turn 30 until November.

[billymac]

Not so sure Thames could pass a drug test in the MLB...

[jerichoholicninja]

Not so sure Thames could pass a drug test in the MLB...

 

Based on what?

 

You can bet if he wants to come back to MLB there are plenty of other clubs willing to give him more money and years than the Brewers. I'm not sure why the Brewers would want him either. He'll be on the wrong side of 30 and has never at any level or league played 1B. I think the organization has moved past the point of just shoveling anyone there.

[MadThinker88]

Not so sure Thames could pass a drug test in the MLB...

 

Based on what?

 

You can bet if he wants to come back to MLB there are plenty of other clubs willing to give him more money and years than the Brewers. I'm not sure why the Brewers would want him either. He'll be on the wrong side of 30 and has never at any level or league played 1B. I think the organization has moved past the point of just shoveling anyone there.

 

Unless they send Ryan Braun out there in a few years (assuming other players take the OF spots - D Santana, Brett Phillips, Reed, etc)

 

Carter is a worthwhile lottery ticket at this point. If he works out, great. If not, no big loss and time has been bought for others to develop.

[endaround]

Carter is a 1 year (at most) stop gap. If he regains form he gets traded, likely at the deadline. If he doesn't and reverts to the guy the Astros non-tendered (despite having next to zero 1B/DH options) the Brewers will non-tender him after the season.

[JohnBriggs12]

Carter is a 1 year (at most) stop gap. If he regains form he gets traded, likely at the deadline. If he doesn't and reverts to the guy the Astros non-tendered (despite having next to zero 1B/DH options) the Brewers will non-tender him after the season.

 

I don't see him getting traded during the season if he's having a solid year. He's controllable for two more seasons. But that shouldn't preclude them from shopping for better options out there at the right price or from considering moving Braun to 1B to make room for a more all around hitter.

[MrTPlush]

Doubt they will trade him at the deadline just because teams will try to call his performance a fluke. I doubt they get much in a trade. If I am the Brewers if he is hitting well I keep him all year. A full year of performance would give him some solid value.

 

There is no rush to trade him if you ask me. We have nothing in the minors pushing him out so might as well hold out for something good. Why rush and get some Lind type deal or worse?

[MilwaukeesBest]

Don't get the hate for the Lind deal but I suppose that's another thread.

[MadThinker88]

Don't get the hate for the Lind deal but I suppose that's another thread.

 

I understand your thoughts. It was a very good 'minor' deal for both teams in the Marco Estrada for Adam Lind deal with Lind coming to Milwaukee.

 

The FO seems to be taking a long term view with the rebuild and this deal (& that is the correct path IMHO).

I guess there are many thinking if the deal was focused on more immediate help, the rebuild will be over in 2 or 3 years.

 

Many people recall that Chris Archer of the Rays was acquired from the Cubs in a big time trade.

What most forget is he was drafted and in the low minors with Cleveland before being part of a 3 pitchers for 1 position deal (Mark DeRosa to Cleveland for Jeff Stevens (of Brandon Phillips trade infamy), John Gaub and Chris Archer..

[MrTPlush]

Don't get the hate for the Lind deal but I suppose that's another thread.

 

Nothing to do with Lind...just the return it got. It was a very weak return(for any trade). On a value scale it was probably a 2/10. Not saying Lind was worth more than that, but one can't deny the return was very little.

 

So do you trade Carter for some total unknowns or do you hold off hoping for better? Pretty low risk to take that gamble.

[superfly]

I'm a fan of Carter...he'll probably revert a bit to the mean a bit but he's a useful bat for us. He will hit 30+ HR this year.

[beekay414]

The Lind return isn't anywhere near as bad as it's been made out to be. Freddy Peralta is a very intriguing lotto ticket type arm and you're not getting more for a one year 1B/DH rental that can't hit lefties...

[ctmyers]

Don't get the hate for the Lind deal but I suppose that's another thread.

 

Nothing to do with Lind...just the return it got. It was a very weak return(for any trade). On a value scale it was probably a 2/10. Not saying Lind was worth more than that, but one can't deny the return was very little.

 

So do you trade Carter for some total unknowns or do you hold off hoping for better? Pretty low risk to take that gamble.

 

Aaron Hill has a higher OPS than Lind right now.

[MrTPlush]

Don't get the hate for the Lind deal but I suppose that's another thread.

 

Nothing to do with Lind...just the return it got. It was a very weak return(for any trade). On a value scale it was probably a 2/10. Not saying Lind was worth more than that, but one can't deny the return was very little.

 

So do you trade Carter for some total unknowns or do you hold off hoping for better? Pretty low risk to take that gamble.

 

Aaron Hill has a higher OPS than Lind right now.

 

Umm ok? Did you miss the part of my comment having NOTHING to do with Lind?

[ctmyers]

Evaluating any trade by ignoring half of the equation is incongruous. And putting a value on three teenagers who've pitched less than 10 innings combined this year is extremely premature.

[MrTPlush]

Evaluating any trade by ignoring half of the equation is incongruous. And putting a value on three teenagers who've pitched less than 10 innings combined this year is extremely premature.

 

Why do you people still think I am evaluating a trade? FORGET ABOUT LIND. I am evaluating the value of the players in the other side of that deal. Sorry for any misunderstanding, but I am NOT evaluating that trade period.

 

And yes you can put a value on three teenagers...every single player that exists has some kind of value. Those kids are close to unknown for the most part and since they are so far away their odds to make the MLB are very low...then to make an impact, even lower. For that reason on the trade market their value would be quite low since their floors are scary low and their ceiling is, for the most part, a mystery.

 

So back to Carter and his possible trades. Do you pull the trigger come July for some total unknowns that have little value or do you hold out and hope you can nab something that is a bit more of a known commodity that has a better chance to actually make an impact?

 

To me I don't think it is obvious to dump Carter at the deadline if he is doing well like some may think. I think it is worth gambling a couple lousy prospects(value wise) and hope that he can build on a strong first half to really up his value. Because I don't think a good first half is going to get a lot of teams believing in him while a full year could make some look at him as a legit starter at 1B/DH. Not like we have anyone knocking on the door. Throw that one dollar in the slot machine and hope you hit a (small) jackpot.

[JohnBriggs12]

Thames 2016 update in Korea:

 

Through 73 games: .337/.458/.718, 25 HR, 71 RBI.

 

Thames will be available this offseason. Given the futility of Brewer OF, I still think he's worth a bid regardless of the rebuild that's in progress. If he shows anything, he's a viable trade chip. He's primarily a LF but has played some RF.

[JohnBriggs12]

Thought I'd bump this up with Thames now officially a FA. Brewers have obvious need for LH bat as a 4th OF to spell (or replace) Braun occasionally and do some soft platooning with Santana who struggles against RHP.. He's pretty much limited to corner OF but with Perez showing he can play CF adequately, I think they'd be covered there to back up Broxton. His numbers in Korea were off a bit this year, so his price may fall into a reasonable level.

[LouisEly]

I've said before that there are two ways to increase the talent level of an organization - the draft, and free agency (key word: organization). With trades, you have to give up value to get value, and in the long run probably aren't going to win that many more than lose. With trading major leaguers for prospects, you are just shifting where in the organization the talent resides, not increasing it.

 

If the Brewers move Braun then I think they should take a shot at Thames. If Puig comes back in a Braun trade they won't be pressed to keep Puig. The Brewers will have virtually nothing for salary obligations the next two years, and only Reed and Wren will be ready to compete for an OF job next year. They can then seek to trade Puig or other OF prospects for corner IF prospects, and if Thames pans out they can move him next offseason if Brinson/Phillips/Cordell/etc. develop and demonstrate they should be given a ML roster spot.

[SandyTolan]

Curious to know: Do players who truly mashed in Korea (like Thames is doing) tend to do well at the MLB level? Is there a precedent for past players in the Korean league, something that would make signing Thames a wise choice -- or at least, a reasonable gamble?

[LouisEly]

Curious to know: Do players who truly mashed in Korea (like Thames is doing) tend to do well at the MLB level? Is there a precedent for past players in the Korean league, something that would make signing Thames a wise choice -- or at least, a reasonable gamble?

n=1, but Jung Ho Kang hit a similar .356/.459/.739 in Korea and posted >.800 OPS each of his two seasons here, .816 his first season and .867 this season. I'd take that in a heartbeat from Thames as a LH bat.

[gregmag]

Santana who struggles against RHP.

Apparently now that your "Santana is worthless" refrain has been exposed as indefensible, this is going to be the new thing you say over and over and over and (please make it stop) over with the hope that people will believe repetition in the absence of reason. The statement, first of all, has very little hard support. Santana OPSd .726 in 2016 against RHP. That's not a number that calls for a platoon. He has shown steady improvement against RHP in his young career. On top of the hard evidence, he's going into just his age 24 season and still developing. You don't platoon a young player with big-time power potential who has performed adequately against same-side pitchers.

 

Your hypocrisy on this point, btw, is breathtaking. You spent years making every conceivable excuse for Gennett's world-historically awful performance against LHPs. He isn't getting enough opportunities; he has to face tough LH relievers; he's better than his results. I'm sure you feel vindicated now that Gennett has shown some improvement against lefties. Guess what? Gennett OPSd .708 against lefties this year in 108 PA (at age 26). Santana OPSd .726 against righties in 192 PA (at age 23). So of course Gennett should play every day and Santana should be platooned.

 

(Oh, speaking of Gennett, I have to love the original post's reference to "the newly found power lefty hitter in Gennett." Those .412 and .381 SLGs the past two years must be making pitchers break out in cold sweats.)

 

As for Thames, I've heard worse ideas, but I've heard better ones. If we trade Braun, get no OF back, and move Santana to first, we can maybe use a stopgap OF, and if he's a lefty that helps us win some games. If he would take any playing time away from Broxton, Liriano (who could be nothing but I want to know), Brinson (who should be up by midseason), or even Perez, or basically anyone more than a year younger than he is, then I don't want him.

[LouisEly]

As for Thames, I've heard worse ideas, but I've heard better ones. If we trade Braun, get no OF back, and move Santana to first, we can maybe use a stopgap OF, and if he's a lefty that helps us win some games. If he would take any playing time away from Broxton, Liriano (who could be nothing but I want to know), Brinson (who should be up by midseason), or even Perez, or basically anyone more than a year younger than he is, then I don't want him.

Thames is not a CF so he will not take any innings/PAs away from Broxton. Brinson's AAA performance, while impressive, was over 93 PAs in which he walked twice and for the entire season his walk rate was <5%. I'd need to see a bigger sample and better walk rate before saying he should be up by midseason. As much as the "small sample" argument is brought up around here, whenever someone brings that up regarding Brinson it gets quickly shut down with the "he was hurt" argument. (But the "he was hurt" argument gets shut down quickly when brought up regarding Garza and Peralta.) I do forget about Liriano; he could be something, but his AAA numbers were put up in the PCL Pacific league, a notorious hitters league. In the three years that El Paso has been in the PCL they have never been lower than fourth in the PCL in runs scored.

 

Thames isn't about winning a few more games, it's about adding talent to the organization without having to give up talent in a trade. LHH with power can be traded for young talent; IF he can translate his Korean performance into something similar to what Kang has he will have trade value. Jay Bruce was able to bring back a recent top-100 prospect who was in the majors by the age of 20 (Herrera, who posted a .899 OPS as a 21-year-old in AAA last year) and a 19-year-old pitcher who was a 3rd round pick. Ben Zobrist was traded for Sean Manaea. Those could be nice pieces to add to the organization, and all they would cost is the salary for Thames.

[And That]

Curious to know: Do players who truly mashed in Korea (like Thames is doing) tend to do well at the MLB level? Is there a precedent for past players in the Korean league, something that would make signing Thames a wise choice -- or at least, a reasonable gamble?

n=1, but Jung Ho Kang hit a similar .356/.459/.739 in Korea and posted >.800 OPS each of his two seasons here, .816 his first season and .867 this season. I'd take that in a heartbeat from Thames as a LH bat.

Byung Ho Park put up production nearly equal to Thames in 2014 and 2015. He slashed .191/.275/.409 for the Twins this year, with a Carter-ian K rate.

[reillymcshane]

Korean Players in the US. I think you can see there are mixed results. Thames' numbers in Korea (listed at the bottom) certainly indicate he could translate into a solid player in the US.

 

Note: I tried to keep numbers within three years of leaving Korea. I don't think quoting stats from age 20 is that relevant for a 30 year old player. I think showing the three preceding years is most telling.

 

Jung Ho Kang

 

OPS in KBO:

2012 (25) - .973

2013 (26) - .876

2014 (27) - 1.198

 

OPS in MLB

2015 (28): .816

2016 (29): .876

 

Byung Ho Park

 

KBO

2013 (26) - 1.039

2014 (27) - 1.119

2015 (28) - 1.150

 

MLB

2016 (29) - .684

 

Hyun Soo Kim

 

KBO:

2013 (25) - .852

2014 (26) - .884

2015 (27) - .979

 

MLB

2016 (28): .801

 

Dae-ho Lee

 

Lee came to the majors last year at age 34, and spent the last four years in Japan - not Korea. But I thought seeing his numbers between Korea and Japan were interesting.

 

KBO

2009 (27) - .908

2010 (28) - 1.111

2011 (29) - 1.011

 

Japan

2012 (30) - .846

2013 (31) - .878

2014 (32) - .816

2015 (33) - .892

 

MLB

2016 (34) - .740

 

Eric Thames

 

KBO

2016 (29) - 1.101

2015 (28) - 1.288

2014 (27) - 1.111

 

Thames has a .727 OPS on 684 ABs in the majors.