Schwarber Out for Season...

[Funketown]

I think it's more based on the look of the guy and his swing. He could post a .350/.365/.375 line and I'd still look at the guy and expect him to hit the ball like Ruth.

[SRB]

What do you think Prince's WAR would have looked like if he had to catch or play in the outfield? Just one more example of WAR being misused. Which is why I think WAR is worse than useless.

 

Not sure what the discrepancy is here. Schwarber was projected to have a .350-.360 wOBA (which I personally think is way too high, because hitters who strikeout so badly get exploited sooner or later, but in any event..), whereas peak Prince Fielder was a .400+ wOBA hitter.

[logan82]

Ruth was head and shoulders better than anyone in the game. Lapped the field. Any comparison to him is ridiculous. Even Bonds was not better than his peers by the order Ruth was to his.

[Ennder]

That is about as funny as the future HOF tag someone gave Brett Lawrie when we traded him~.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Being versatile and playing multiple positions doesn't (and shouldn't) get you a net plus if you play them poorly. The only positive that provides a team is 25 man flexibility, but it doesn't provide any value to run differential while that man is on the field, relative to any other factor.

 

WAR is simply a numeric measure of what a player has done, relative to the rest of the league. It doesn't matter if a guy can play 3, 5, or every position if he's not good at them.

 

That doesn't mean that being versatile doesn't have an intangible value to a team as it pertains to roster flexibility, but when you have a guy who's just really bad on defense wherever you put him, you can't say that the defense doesn't count against him. It's still bad defense while he's on the field, and it still definitely counts in a very tangible way.

[Ennder]

Everyone knows WAR is somewhat flawed, it is just less flawed than any other single number. The pitching side is particularly bad. Judging a player by a single number is a bad idea in general but if you have to pick just one number to see and ignore all else WAR is not a bad choice at all.

[StearnsFTW]

Definitely hurts the Cubs. Feel bad for Schwarber, but screw the Cubs and their fans.

 

On that note, I find your handle to be hilarious. I picture you having typed in 'cubssuck' and 'cubsblow' and thinking, 'No, just not strong enough' and then typing 'cubsdie' and thinking 'perfect.'

 

I can neither confirm nor deny the plausibility of your theory.

 

Also, Babe Ruth? More like a left-handed Steve Balboni.

[3and2Fastball]

Babe Ruth.

 

Funniest thing I've ever seen on Brewersfan.net

 

Well maybe besides Woah Solv'd (or however that was spelled)

[Thurston Fluff]

WAR is simply a numeric measure of what a player has done, relative to the rest of the league. It doesn't matter if a guy can play 3, 5, or every position if he's not good at them.

 

It does matter when comparing twp players and ignoring one is getting penalized for playing a tougher defensive position. AS for the idea that it doesn't matter if they can play multiple positions if they can't play them well I disagree. It provides versatility to get a good bat in the lineup. Schwarber's versatility allows them to play him and Rizzo at the same time. I don't know about you but I think that matters.

 

Everyone knows WAR is somewhat flawed, it is just less flawed than any other single number. The pitching side is particularly bad. Judging a player by a single number is a bad idea in general but if you have to pick just one number to see and ignore all else WAR is not a bad choice at all.

 

Problem is few people seem to use it like they know it's a flawed number or that using a single number in general is a bad idea.

[DuWayne Steurer]

WAR is simply a numeric measure of what a player has done, relative to the rest of the league. It doesn't matter if a guy can play 3, 5, or every position if he's not good at them.

 

It does matter when comparing twp players and ignoring one is getting penalized for playing a tougher defensive position. AS for the idea that it doesn't matter if they can play multiple positions if they can't play them well I disagree. It provides versatility to get a good bat in the lineup. Schwarber's versatility allows them to play him and Rizzo at the same time. I don't know about you but I think that matters.

 

 

I certainly agree that it matters. I said so in my post (being versatile helps with 25 man roster management). The thing you are doing though is using the word "penalize" like people are choosing to add some intangible negative value for his bad defense and you seem as though you want to ignore it because he can play multiple positions.

 

What I'm saying is, it's fine that he can play multiple positions. That does have an intangible value, but after the games are played, the statistics (whether you use WAR, wOBA, batting average, or everything combined), are simply measuring what was done.

 

I'm simply talking about "what he did on the field", and that result will show that his defense is a net minus. Is his bat worth putting up with it? Sure, but that doesn't mean that being able to play multiple positions is a value (In my opinion) when he plays them very poorly.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm simply talking about "what he did on the field", and that result will show that his defense is a net minus. Is his bat worth putting up with it? Sure, but that doesn't mean that being able to play multiple positions is a value (In my opinion) when he plays them very poorly.

 

My only point with comparing him to Prince to begin with was as a response to someone saying his injury won't hurt the Cubs much because he was a terrible defensive player. Both players are very good offensive players who can't defend very well. One was slightly better on offense, the other more versatile on defense to make up for that slightly less offensive ability.

 

The thing you are doing though is using the word "penalize" like people are choosing to add some intangible negative value for his bad defense and you seem as though you want to ignore it because he can play multiple positions.

 

I think the term offset as opposed to ignore is better. I get it's a net drag on his overall contributions. But to be able to play in a position where you can get an extra good bat in the lineup offsets that negative impact.

[danzig6767]

 

It does matter when comparing twp players and ignoring one is getting penalized for playing a tougher defensive position. AS for the idea that it doesn't matter if they can play multiple positions if they can't play them well I disagree. It provides versatility to get a good bat in the lineup. Schwarber's versatility allows them to play him and Rizzo at the same time. I don't know about you but I think that matters.

Schwarber isn't versatile defensively. He'd be a below average defender regardless of where the Cubs played him, but he has such a big bat, they have to put him out on the field somewhere. His ideal position would be DH in the AL.

 

A real versatile defender is someone who can play multiple positions without being a liability at any. Not instead, hey you have a monster bat and we know you aren't good defensively at any position, so let's find a place where your defense would do the least amount of damage.

[Thurston Fluff]

 

It does matter when comparing twp players and ignoring one is getting penalized for playing a tougher defensive position. AS for the idea that it doesn't matter if they can play multiple positions if they can't play them well I disagree. It provides versatility to get a good bat in the lineup. Schwarber's versatility allows them to play him and Rizzo at the same time. I don't know about you but I think that matters.

Schwarber isn't versatile defensively. He'd be a below average defender regardless of where the Cubs played him, but he has such a big bat, they have to put him out on the field somewhere. His ideal position would be DH in the AL.

 

A real versatile defender is someone who can play multiple positions without being a liability at any. Not instead, hey you have a monster bat and we know you aren't good defensively at any position, so let's find a place where your defense would do the least amount of damage.

 

That was exactly what I was getting at when I first mentioned Prince Fielder. The bat makes up for the defense. I do however, disagree that being capable of playing multiple positions isn't valuable unless he can play at an average level. Sure it detracts from his overall value but it does allow them the ability to put two above average offensive players on the field at the same time. That is something players like Prince Fielder and Kris Davis could not do. That has to count for some value doesn't it?

[danzig6767]

 

That was exactly what I was getting at when I first mentioned Prince Fielder. The bat makes up for the defense. I do however, disagree that being capable of playing multiple positions isn't valuable unless he can play at an average level. Sure it detracts from his overall value but it does allow them the ability to put two above average offensive players on the field at the same time. That is something players like Prince Fielder and Kris Davis could not do. That has to count for some value doesn't it?

What other position though would the Cubs want to play Schwarber at besides LF?

 

They had determined long ago that he wasn't good enough at catcher to remain there. That pretty much just left firstbase and LF. Given he had never played infield and would be short for a firstbaseman which is problematic on high throws, the Cubs chose to make him a leftfielder and that was likely a wise decision.

 

Some fans seem to believe you can just throw any defensive liability at firstbase and that player will be fine. I'd rather have a really bad leftfielder than a really bad firstbaseman. At firstbase, they can allow a bunch of extra hits via poor range and errors, some turning into doubles or triples down the line. If someone there also struggles at digging poor throws out of the dirt, that's even more extra baserunners and often they advance to secondbase. Being short leads to high throws over a firstbasemans glove. A bad leftfielder in most games has less chances to butcher a play.

 

So if hypothetically instead of Schwarber suffering the ACL tear, it was Rizzo, do you think the Cubs would have moved Schwarber to firstbase? I really doubt it and if they wouldn't, then what about Schwarber would make him versatile?

[StearnsFTW]

They were planning on catching him for every Hammel start as far as I know. Which is a shame because it would've been hilarious.

[endaround]

I'm disappointed. I thought for sure this would have changed to a Braun to the Cubs trade thread by now.