Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 2)

[brewcrewdue80]

 

But the Mets don't need Matz as much as they need Lucroy's offense.

No way in hell would the Mets even consider trading Matz for Lucroy. Young lefties with his kind of stuff and under team control until 2022 don't get traded for a 30 year old catcher with only a year and a half of team control unless their GM is a complete idiot. They can look to find a bat at the deadline which wouldn't include trading one of the best young pitchers in the game.

 

 

Matz gets shuffled to the bullpen come postseason. So Great you get maybe 8 IP from him? And the next year, and the year after that.

 

Harvey is fine, his last 3 starts 20IP-8! Hits allowed-2ERs-3BBs-17Ks .90ERA

 

What's the most important? Met's squeeking in to the Playoffs having Matz and lose in 1game playoff 1-0 or 2-1? Or Met's winning the Division and having an offense that is better to support the trio of Degrom, Harvey, and Syndergaard? Matz doesn't fit in to the Playoff equation. He's not Game 1 starter or Game 1 after the 1win Wild Card game. Shelby Miller was traded for Jason Heyward. Matz was a 2nd round #72 overall. Lucroy will have a QO after 2017 and there's your #30 overall pick back in return for him. You offer Matz you get the #1 trade piece this season. You offer any combination of 4-5 prospects in your system, it won't be a better offer than what other clubs will and can offer to Milwaukee.

 

End result: 1-0 Wild Card loss. To LA or STL or Pittsburgh. I'd expect Pittsburgh to get healthy in the standings here with Taillon and probably soon Glasnow joining the ML club. STL I think will tail off in the standings. 3 team race for Wild Card in Mets/Pirates/Dodgers. Mets keep their Arms and find a middling bat they're more likely to NOT make the playoffs than they are.

 

Lucroy is the most polarizing bat a team can acquire for 1 position. The upgrade he gives is more than any player who also gets traded this July. Putting From Texas, Tate, and Ortiz and that's 2 SPs that can become every bit what Matz is, only Matz is proven and those 2 are prospects. Why if that's the case would Texas do that if Matz is so untouchable?

 

Answer:World Series victory. Do you want it? Or do you want to spectate it?

[brewcrewdue80]

The Mets may only need a three man rotation for the playoffs, but they need five starters to actually get to the playoffs and losing Matz is a giant downgrade for a team that isn't even leading their division as it is.

 

I guess Zach Wheeler is chopped Liver?

 

And I say that because we're supposed to take him in a trade? He's coming back after the AS break. Which is before the Trade deadline. See how that works? 6 SPs become 5? If Zach Wheeler can be part of our Rebuild, He damn sure can be part of New York's World Series down the stretch run.

[MrTPlush]

The Mets may only need a three man rotation for the playoffs, but they need five starters to actually get to the playoffs and losing Matz is a giant downgrade for a team that isn't even leading their division as it is.

 

I guess Zach Wheeler is chopped Liver?

 

And I say that because we're supposed to take him in a trade? He's coming back after the AS break. Which is before the Trade deadline. See how that works? 6 SPs become 5?

 

They are going to depend on a guy coming off a major injury and prior he pitched like a #3? I'm just not buying it. Even going from Matz to Wheeler is a steep downgrade. Unless of course you expect him to come back strong and pitch like the frontline starter people hope he is. Taking a major piece off the MLB roster just doesn't make sense for the Mets. If they were the Cubs and an easy lock to avoid the wild card game(heck even make the playoffs) maybe such a move would make sense.

 

For a team on the edge of being a playoff team or not taking away from the MLB roster isn't a great option.

[brewcrewdue80]

One Last tidbit for Matz. He pitched 140IP in 14 and 141 total in 15. He won't make it to the end of September. He's at 66IP now in 11starts. Another 22 a full season's worth of starts would put him current pace of 198IP. This sets up nicely with Wheeler's return who should be able to pitch 1/2 a season to replace Matz in a trade who you guess at 180IP max would only take him to first week of September. Dead arming it with 4IP starts end of August or in September, well there goes you're playoff run letting the guy 5-7ERs it to the finish line. This should be the Brewers target and the Mets should be willing to trade him for this reason.

[A Swing and A Drive]

One Last tidbit for Matz. He pitched 140IP in 14 and 141 total in 15. He won't make it to the end of September. He's at 66IP now in 11starts. Another 22 a full season's worth of starts would put him current pace of 198IP. This sets up nicely with Wheeler's return who should be able to pitch 1/2 a season to replace Matz in a trade who you guess at 180IP max would only take him to first week of September. Dead arming it with 4IP starts end of August or in September, well there goes you're playoff run letting the guy 5-7ERs it to the finish line. This should be the Brewers target and the Mets should be willing to trade him for this reason.

 

Steven Matz is more of an untouchable than a Giolito or Urias via trade. He has already shown dominant success at the MLB level. Zero chance the Mets trade him. You could add Arcia and Phillips along with Lucroy and the Mets would still hang up laughing.

[brewcrewdue80]

One Last tidbit for Matz. He pitched 140IP in 14 and 141 total in 15. He won't make it to the end of September. He's at 66IP now in 11starts. Another 22 a full season's worth of starts would put him current pace of 198IP. This sets up nicely with Wheeler's return who should be able to pitch 1/2 a season to replace Matz in a trade who you guess at 180IP max would only take him to first week of September. Dead arming it with 4IP starts end of August or in September, well there goes you're playoff run letting the guy 5-7ERs it to the finish line. This should be the Brewers target and the Mets should be willing to trade him for this reason.

 

Steven Matz is more of an untouchable than a Giolito or Urias via trade. He has already shown dominant success at the MLB level. Zero chance the Mets trade him. You could add Arcia and Phillips along with Lucroy and the Mets would still hang up laughing.

 

Great, Cool with me, when the Winter Meetings happen and I say, remember that time I offered you Lucroy for Matz+Plawecki....LOL! Boy, sure glad we got to enjoy the playoffs in front of a tv. How many more years are you going be bottom half in MLB scoring? You're up to 5 now how's that working for ya?

 

 

Lucroy is 10runs statistically more runs created with the Bat. On pace for another 26runs like 2014.

 

Met's Catchers total? -11 runs created with the bats. Again, the Polarizing effect Lucroy adds to a team is Huge. You're pacing at 25runs+ for Lucroy to -25runs for New York Catchers.

 

Replacing Lucroy in to Walker/or Conforto in batting lineup: Walker at 5 or 1/2 Lucroy and Conforto at 0 or 25runs on season less than Lucroy.

 

This isn't a season where the Mets are gaining Offensive prospects to add to their team, like Conforto was and being just a 0 avg in his 2nd season doesn't say much of what his improvement to the team is.

 

We harped on trading Gomez for Matz last season. Lucroy offers more value than Gomez did, so how isn't Lucroy not worth the same? Because he'd be the Brewers immediate #1? And no way as Milw should trade a Matz away for Lucroy right? Well, see in Milwaukee we are praying for a SP. In NY though, they have to be praying for a bat and that's why this deal makes sense.

 

But go ahead and as the arm chair GM hold on to your Pitching and I guarantee you, it will only get you so far when you are facing the Elite SPs in the Playoffs and are the Worst Offense making the Playoffs. At some point you get swept and lose.

[MrTPlush]

One Last tidbit for Matz. He pitched 140IP in 14 and 141 total in 15. He won't make it to the end of September. He's at 66IP now in 11starts. Another 22 a full season's worth of starts would put him current pace of 198IP. This sets up nicely with Wheeler's return who should be able to pitch 1/2 a season to replace Matz in a trade who you guess at 180IP max would only take him to first week of September. Dead arming it with 4IP starts end of August or in September, well there goes you're playoff run letting the guy 5-7ERs it to the finish line. This should be the Brewers target and the Mets should be willing to trade him for this reason.

 

Steven Matz is more of an untouchable than a Giolito or Urias via trade. He has already shown dominant success at the MLB level. Zero chance the Mets trade him. You could add Arcia and Phillips along with Lucroy and the Mets would still hang up laughing.

 

Great, Cool with me, when the Winter Meetings happen and I say, remember that time I offered you Lucroy for Matz+Plawecki....LOL! Boy, sure glad we got to enjoy the playoffs in front of a tv. How many more years are you going be bottom half in MLB scoring? You're up to 5 now how's that working for ya?

 

Probably a lot better than trading a bonified ace for a 1.5 year rental catcher.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I do like C Kevin Plawecki

 

Realistic Proposal

Mets get

C Jonathan Lucroy

3b Aaron Hill

 

Brewers get

RHP Zach Wheeler

1b Dominic Smith

C Kevin Plawecki

RHP Rafael Montero

RHP Robert Gsellman

 

 

Hoping the Brewers get a better offer from other org than this as its more quantity over quality.

[SRB]

I do like C Kevin Plawecki

 

Realistic Proposal

Mets get

C Jonathan Lucroy

3b Aaron Hill

 

Brewers get

RHP Zach Wheeler

1b Dominic Smith

C Kevin Plawecki

RHP Rafael Montero

RHP Robert Gsellman

 

 

Hoping the Brewers get a better offer from other org than this as its more quantity over quality.

 

A trade headlined by (three years of) a #3 starter returning from Tommy John surgery, and a 1B/DH prospect with a career .737 OPS in the minors? No thanks...

[dacrew101]

Plawecki has no place in this league, horrible on both ends of the game and his throwing arm looked brutally weak against the brewers..

 

Dominic smith is an overrated prospect too IMO.. Doesn't play defense or hit for power, meh

[danzig6767]

No way in hell would the Mets even consider trading Matz for Lucroy. Young lefties with his kind of stuff and under team control until 2022 don't get traded for a 30 year old catcher with only a year and a half of team control unless their GM is a complete idiot. They can look to find a bat at the deadline which wouldn't include trading one of the best young pitchers in the game.

Matz gets shuffled to the bullpen come postseason. So Great you get maybe 8 IP from him? And the next year, and the year after that.

 

Harvey is fine, his last 3 starts 20IP-8! Hits allowed-2ERs-3BBs-17Ks .90ERA

 

What's the most important? Met's squeeking in to the Playoffs having Matz and lose in 1game playoff 1-0 or 2-1? Or Met's winning the Division and having an offense that is better to support the trio of Degrom, Harvey, and Syndergaard? Matz doesn't fit in to the Playoff equation.

It's only June. The Mets first have to make the playoffs and if they do, you don't know for sure that he wouldn't start games at all. There easily could be an injury or he simply pitches to well not to put him out there.

 

Beyond that, you are acting like Lucroy will be the only bat available at the deadline who the Mets could go after. There will be others and it won't cost them one of the best few young starters in the game.

[paul253]

You could add Arcia and Phillips along with Lucroy and the Mets would still hang up laughing.

 

Come on. Possibly the best overall catcher in baseball and a top 10 in all of baseball prospect and the Mets would "hang up laughing"? They may well turn it down but personally I think they'd be dumb to considering their offense right now and who they'd still have in the rotation. I'm not suggesting the Brewers offer it because I think it'd be dumb on their behalf. They can get decent pitching prospects back for Lucroy without giving up Arcia. Let's face it the Mets are a bad match. What we want they wont offer and what they'll offer we won't want. Let's move on from them.

[brewcrewdue80]

No way in hell would the Mets even consider trading Matz for Lucroy. Young lefties with his kind of stuff and under team control until 2022 don't get traded for a 30 year old catcher with only a year and a half of team control unless their GM is a complete idiot. They can look to find a bat at the deadline which wouldn't include trading one of the best young pitchers in the game.

Matz gets shuffled to the bullpen come postseason. So Great you get maybe 8 IP from him? And the next year, and the year after that.

 

Harvey is fine, his last 3 starts 20IP-8! Hits allowed-2ERs-3BBs-17Ks .90ERA

 

What's the most important? Met's squeeking in to the Playoffs having Matz and lose in 1game playoff 1-0 or 2-1? Or Met's winning the Division and having an offense that is better to support the trio of Degrom, Harvey, and Syndergaard? Matz doesn't fit in to the Playoff equation.

It's only June. The Mets first have to make the playoffs and if they do, you don't know for sure that he wouldn't start games at all. There easily could be an injury or he simply pitches to well not to put him out there.

 

Beyond that, you are acting like Lucroy will be the only bat available at the deadline who the Mets could go after. There will be others and it won't cost them one of the best few young starters in the game.

 

If Matz reaches 30 Games started, I will bet you $1,000 he doesn't start a game in the Playoffs. You think the Mets having gone through Harvey and now Wheeler to TJ, are going to say here kid, Stretch out and pitch 220innings this year. Anything come Playoffs Matz will only pitch out of the bullpen count on it. a 60 day DL stint would be the only thing that allows him to start games in the Playoffs. Or this better pitcher being put in the bullpen for Wheeler to start games.

 

Of course they can go for a bat other than Lucroy. But who are they replacing? Granderson/Cespedes are certainly not. I'd add Neil Walker.

I don't really think they'd replace Conforto. Duda/Loney like I said you kinda replace with Lucroy to give Darnaud PAs. 3b is David Wright/Wilmer Flores who would have to be a rental with Wright.

Asdrubal Cabrera has a 3yr deal. Plus Juan Lagares has an extended contacts. Catcher just makes the most sense for an upgrade to the offense, especially how big it will be with Lucroy.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

I do like C Kevin Plawecki

 

Realistic Proposal

Mets get

C Jonathan Lucroy

3b Aaron Hill

 

Brewers get

RHP Zach Wheeler

1b Dominic Smith

C Kevin Plawecki

RHP Rafael Montero

RHP Robert Gsellman

 

 

Hoping the Brewers get a better offer from other org than this as its more quantity over quality.

AAAAND you lost me. You also included possibly the worst "highly regarded" prospect in baseball with Dom Smith. Be right back... I'm gonna go make myself a clorox cocktail.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Plawecki has no place in this league, horrible on both ends of the game and his throwing arm looked brutally weak against the brewers..

 

That's just nitpicking, isn't it?

[billymac]

Might be a little off topic, but Arcia started at 2B for the 2nd time in 10 games yesterday for the Sky Sox. Is there a SS out there if traded for that would take over ahead of Arcia if traded? Only one listed above him in the pipeline is JP Crawford which won't be going anywhere.

 

Only reason I am posting this here is because it would have to be a premium prospect return and Lucroy would be the only one to do so from this team.

 

Trea Turner, Nationals?

Alex Bregman, Astros?

Franklin Barreto, A's?

Gleybor Torres, Cubs?

Jorge Mateo, Yankees?

Brendan Rodgers, Rockies?

 

All the others are on crappy teams that have no one blocking them.

[mattyo]

Might be a little off topic, but Arcia started at 2B for the 2nd time in 10 games yesterday for the Sky Sox. Is there a SS out there if traded for that would take over ahead of Arcia if traded? Only one listed above him in the pipeline is JP Crawford which won't be going anywhere.

 

Only reason I am posting this here is because it would have to be a premium prospect return and Lucroy would be the only one to do so from this team.

 

Trea Turner, Nationals?

Alex Bregman, Astros?

Franklin Barreto, A's?

Gleybor Torres, Cubs?

Jorge Mateo, Yankees?

Brendan Rodgers, Rockies?

 

All the others are on crappy teams that have no one blocking them.

 

Crawford is the only SS on par defensively with Arcia, and even that is arguable. Really don't see any of those players starting ahead of Arcia, and would definitely prioritize a different position in a potential Lucroy trade. That being said if Turner were on the table I definitely wouldn't be upset with him as a centerpiece. Also wouldn't mind Rodgers, think we would move him to 3B.

[monty57]

 

But the Mets don't need Matz as much as they need Lucroy's offense.

No way in hell would the Mets even consider trading Matz for Lucroy. Young lefties with his kind of stuff and under team control until 2022 don't get traded for a 30 year old catcher with only a year and a half of team control unless their GM is a complete idiot. They can look to find a bat at the deadline which wouldn't include trading one of the best young pitchers in the game.

 

I agree, which is why I don't see a deal with the Mets. They want to give up their "spare part" in Wheeler so they can keep all their gems. I'd ask for one of the gems. If they're willing to put the "spare part" into the rotation, then we could make a deal. If not, then we politely decline their offer (or just use it to help push up someone else's offer).

 

Don't get me wrong, Wheeler is a very good pitcher, but the Brewers don't need a guy with limited team control who is coming off of a major injury. It just doesn't fit into their current plans. If we can't get Matz (which we probably can't), then we deal Lucroy elsewhere.

[monty57]

Might be a little off topic, but Arcia started at 2B for the 2nd time in 10 games yesterday for the Sky Sox.

 

I think Stearns likes versatility, so having him put in some time at 2B is probably nothing more than getting some experience there. If there is anything more than that, it's probably in case Gennett struggles and they bring him up this year as a 2B. They would probably move Villar, but it wouldn't hurt to know that Arcia could play there as well.

 

But yeah, I wouldn't complain if it means Trea Turner is coming over in trade.

[Boomer5]

Might be a little off topic, but Arcia started at 2B for the 2nd time in 10 games yesterday for the Sky Sox. Is there a SS out there if traded for that would take over ahead of Arcia if traded? Only one listed above him in the pipeline is JP Crawford which won't be going anywhere.

 

Only reason I am posting this here is because it would have to be a premium prospect return and Lucroy would be the only one to do so from this team.

 

Trea Turner, Nationals?

Alex Bregman, Astros?

Franklin Barreto, A's?

Gleybor Torres, Cubs?

Jorge Mateo, Yankees?

Brendan Rodgers, Rockies?

 

All the others are on crappy teams that have no one blocking them.

 

Very Interesting. Arcia is an elite SS. There would be no reason to put him at 2b unless they have some reason to play him there in Milwaukee at some point. Versatility means nothing when you have a SS as good as him.

 

If he were to come up, he would play SS and Villar would move to 3B or 2B, not Arcia.

 

But that does beg the question, why trade Luc for the only position we have covered in the system?

[Boomer5]

Might be a little off topic, but Arcia started at 2B for the 2nd time in 10 games yesterday for the Sky Sox. Is there a SS out there if traded for that would take over ahead of Arcia if traded? Only one listed above him in the pipeline is JP Crawford which won't be going anywhere.

 

Only reason I am posting this here is because it would have to be a premium prospect return and Lucroy would be the only one to do so from this team.

 

Trea Turner, Nationals?

Alex Bregman, Astros?

Franklin Barreto, A's?

Gleybor Torres, Cubs?

Jorge Mateo, Yankees?

Brendan Rodgers, Rockies?

 

All the others are on crappy teams that have no one blocking them.

 

Arroyo seems the guy but that's a Braun trade match up, not Luc for what it's worth.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

Might be a little off topic, but Arcia started at 2B for the 2nd time in 10 games yesterday for the Sky Sox. Is there a SS out there if traded for that would take over ahead of Arcia if traded? Only one listed above him in the pipeline is JP Crawford which won't be going anywhere.

 

Only reason I am posting this here is because it would have to be a premium prospect return and Lucroy would be the only one to do so from this team.

 

Trea Turner, Nationals?

Alex Bregman, Astros?

Franklin Barreto, A's?

Gleybor Torres, Cubs?

Jorge Mateo, Yankees?

Brendan Rodgers, Rockies?

 

All the others are on crappy teams that have no one blocking them.

 

Very Interesting. Arcia is an elite SS. There would be no reason to put him at 2b unless they have some reason to play him there in Milwaukee at some point. Versatility means nothing when you have a SS as good as him.

 

If he were to come up, he would play SS and Villar would move to 3B or 2B, not Arcia.

 

But that does beg the question, why trade Luc for the only position we have covered in the system?

 

Versatility is nice for all infielders when you want to give guys days off to stay fresh or matchups.

[paul253]

Versatility is nice for all infielders when you want to give guys days off to stay fresh or matchups

 

Versatility is nice for borderline MLB players whose value is increased because they can play multiple positions. Yadiel Rivera for instance. Starting shortstops, especially ones of Arcias caliber, should not be moving around the diamond to learn new positions unless there is a permanent move in mind. When he plays he's going to play shortstop, even if there is an injury and second or third baseman. I don't understand why they'd be playing him at a position other than shortstop.

[ilikewisco]

Maybe they feel like they shouldn't move Villar off of short this year with the way he's played and feel Arcia can play out of position for the time being if brought up. I'm sure he's still considered the SS of the future.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

As much as I like Villar he's without a doubt a below average fielder at SS. I think this is much ado about nothing. Arcia is absolutely a plus plus fielding SS, and will stay there.