Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 2)

[logan82]

Cutting the catchers down to only qualified so you are only lookin at 8 players is a bit disingenuous. We all know catchers don't play as much so we need to go with a lower threshold for PA.

[MrTPlush]

Matz for lucroy.....who says no?

 

With degroom, Harvey and Thor....do the need a 4th starter for the playoffs? If so, still have fatty plus wheeler will be back

 

Mets and it isn't even close. The Mets aren't even leading their division with Matz. They need him on that team and a trade including Matz doesn't make sense. Addition by subtraction for little gain.

[dacrew101]

Honeywell was put on the DL last month with elbow tenderness. I think he's a really good prospect, but you'd have to feel good that the elbow is okay before making him the centerpiece of a deal.

 

Honeywell is interesting but I doubt the Rays will buy with their record being about the same as ours

[nate82]

Cutting the catchers down to only qualified so you are only lookin at 8 players is a bit disingenuous. We all know catchers don't play as much so we need to go with a lower threshold for PA.

 

Well even cutting it to 150 and then Ramos is the leader at catcher and he only needs 1 PA to become qualified so it is not really at that disingenuous at all. Even at 100 PA Lucroy is still top 3 with Chris Herrmann who has never had an OPS as high as he has now in the majors who will more than likely come back down to his .600-.700 OPS range.

 

The point still remains a catcher at an .800 OPS doesn't come on the market all that often if ever. The price for Lucroy will be high and the Brewers will get at least one elite prospect and possibly two.

[splitterpfj]

Boston is a great match for the Brewers, and Lucroy would certainly improve them, but they've got to get a starting pitcher in there.

 

The Mets can't score runs, there's not much else to say on that.

 

The Mets will watch to see how Wheeler looks, and they're going to give D'Arnaud one more shot, but the man is going to be playing catcher with a tear in his shoulder.

 

The Red Sox could use a catcher, and they could use an outfielder, but I think they'll make pitching the priority, since they already score plenty of runs.

 

People on here talk about Steven Matz, and yes, the Mets could afford to deal a pitcher, if Wheeler is ready to go. People on here also talk about how they don't want the Brewers to deal Lucroy for guys who have burned service time. OK, so if you connect the dots, Matz has more remaining team control than his teammate, Matt Harvey. Doesn't it make sense that Harvey, not Matz, would be the guy New York would choose to part with?

 

The Mets are trying to win, they're not going to deal for guys who will help in 2018, they need to hit - right now, while they have those pitchers together.

 

Lucroy for Harvey - if there has to be another piece each way, then sort it out.

 

Harvey, with Boston's choice of our bullpen guys, for Rafael Devers, Anderson Espinoza, Trey Ball, and either Josh Ockimey or a PTBNL, if they want to check out Blake Swihart's medicals and choose between he and Ockimey.

 

A month ago, Harvey was pitching so poorly, the Mets nearly sent him to AAA to sort it out - now, he's had three strong starts in a row. Harvey needs to pitch well, or this goes out the window, but if things line up in New York, for Wheeler to step in, and with Harvey holding enough value to make this happen, then this would help all three teams.

 

There aren't pitchers out there to be bought in free agency next winter, and there's not a lot on the trade market right now either. The Brewers appear to be holding the two best available bats, so I'm not ruling out something like this.

 

Here's to continued futility for Mets catchers, continued resurgence for Matt Harvey, and an, "all clear" for Zack Wheeler, prior to the trade deadline.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Boston is a great match for the Brewers, and Lucroy would certainly improve them, but they've got to get a starting pitcher in there.

 

The Mets can't score runs, there's not much else to say on that.

 

The Mets will watch to see how Wheeler looks, and they're going to give D'Arnaud one more shot, but the man is going to be playing catcher with a tear in his shoulder.

 

The Red Sox could use a catcher, and they could use an outfielder, but I think they'll make pitching the priority, since they already score plenty of runs.

 

People on here talk about Steven Matz, and yes, the Mets could afford to deal a pitcher, if Wheeler is ready to go. People on here also talk about how they don't want the Brewers to deal Lucroy for guys who have burned service time. OK, so if you connect the dots, Matz has more remaining team control than his teammate, Matt Harvey. Doesn't it make sense that Harvey, not Matz, would be the guy New York would choose to part with?

 

The Mets are trying to win, they're not going to deal for guys who will help in 2018, they need to hit - right now, while they have those pitchers together.

 

Lucroy for Harvey - if there has to be another piece each way, then sort it out.

 

Harvey, with Boston's choice of our bullpen guys, for Rafael Devers, Anderson Espinoza, Trey Ball, and either Josh Ockimey or a PTBNL, if they want to check out Blake Swihart's medicals and choose between he and Ockimey.

 

A month ago, Harvey was pitching so poorly, the Mets nearly sent him to AAA to sort it out - now, he's had three strong starts in a row. Harvey needs to pitch well, or this goes out the window, but if things line up in New York, for Wheeler to step in, and with Harvey holding enough value to make this happen, then this would help all three teams.

 

There aren't pitchers out there to be bought in free agency next winter, and there's not a lot on the trade market right now either. The Brewers appear to be holding the two best available bats, so I'm not ruling out something like this.

 

Here's to continued futility for Mets catchers, continued resurgence for Matt Harvey, and an, "all clear" for Zack Wheeler, prior to the trade deadline.

 

So you think the Brewers could still land the Red Sox untouchable prospects Devers and Espinosa....all they have to do is trade Lucroy for Matt Harvey and then flip him? Lol creative wishful thinking but pretty unrealistic.

[dacrew101]

I'd do a deal centered around Espinosa, doubt they'd be motivated to do it

[splitterpfj]

So you think the Brewers could still land the Red Sox untouchable prospects Devers and Espinosa

 

Yes I do.

 

For a team that does so many things well, Boston has some obvious needs, and a deep farm system. They're not getting what they want, and keeping those four together, they'll either have to buy lesser talent with lesser prospects, or pay for what they're getting.

 

As for the Mets, they have a huge strength in their rotation, but their lineup is fast becoming Yoenis Cespedes and a bucket of tears.

 

They have to do something in NY, or they'll waste a year of having these pitchers together - I don't think they'll do that. The Mets don't have the farm system to get what they need, if they're going to make a true impact for the big club, they're going to have to deal from their one obvious strength, which is MLB starting pitching.

 

Matt Harvey is the closest in the bunch to free agency, I would expect the Mets to try to retain as much team control of those arms as possible, which makes him first in line for trade discussions. Wheeler has to be ok, or the Mets are in big trouble, because then they don't even have the starting pitcher ready to deal.

 

The Mets are not in a strong position, they have obvious needs, RIGHT NOW, on the big club. They could get a huge package of prospects for Harvey if he pitches well for the next few weeks, but those players would have to be ready to come up and help right away. Which team has a true impact bat to deal, that won't destroy the Mets' budget, etc, etc .... it's not an easy fit.

 

Harvey's a wildcard, if he looks like a Cy Young candidate for the next few weeks, who knows what someone might throw at the Mets? If Harvey backslides and gets lit up again, this show is over.

 

It's a lot of moving parts, but it would get all three teams what they're looking for.

[And That]

The Cubs promoted Wilson Contreras today, so that would seem to take them further out of the running.

[brewmann04]

I would have been shocked it the Brewers and Cubs would have made a deal.

But its going to be interesting come July to see what some teams do.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

I think there's some overvaluing of prospects going on in this thread... Not referring to the elite ones like Giolito and Moncada.

[jerichoholicninja]

Demobrowski is running the show in Boston now. I'm sure a lot of it came from ownership but he seemed to care little about prospects in Detroit. He's already given up a haul for Kimbrel. I don't know who or how many he'll trade but to think he won't be willing to move some for the best or nearly the best catcher in the game is probably wrong.

[monty57]

So you think the Brewers could still land the Red Sox untouchable prospects Devers and Espinosa

 

In today's baseball, I don't think there's anyone who is truly "untouchable." Heck, there were rumors that Trout could be traded this year, and if he's not untouchable, no one is. If he were traded, there would be "untouchable" prospects going back to the Angels.

 

The question is whether Lucroy is good enough to bring back an "untouchable" prospect, and I think that's a possibility, though not a given. I think it's more likely he'll get several "Top 100" guys rather than a "Top 10" guy, but this past offseason, Stearns was asking for the moon for Lucroy, which is why he wasn't traded. I believe that other GMs were worried about Lucroy's injuries and his less-than-stellar 2015 season. He's answered these concerns by putting together an MVP-caliber season. Right now, he's probably the best offensive and the best defensive catcher in baseball. Guys like that don't come on the market often, someone will pay heavily for it. Whether that means "Top 10" guy will depend on how much the market heats up over the next month.

 

A lot of people were surprised at the willingness of teams to trade away top prospects last season in trades for players like Tulo, Price, Cueto, and Hamels, and hopefully that trend continues this year.

[Madhawk23]

Demobrowski is running the show in Boston now. I'm sure a lot of it came from ownership but he seemed to care little about prospects in Detroit. He's already given up a haul for Kimbrel. I don't know who or how many he'll trade but to think he won't be willing to move some for the best or nearly the best catcher in the game is probably wrong.

 

I had quickly forgotten what a haul that the Red Sox gave up for Craig Kimbrel. I realize that every trade is different, and certainly Kimbrel is one of the best closers in the game today. But, the Sox gave up the #40 (Margot) and #52 (Guerra) ranked prospects in all of baseball, along with two other guys that are in the Padres Top 20 prospect list now - including an infielder who is currently dominating AAA pitching so far this year.

 

Lucroy is definitely in the top 2-3 catchers in all of baseball, and plays one of the most important positions in all of baseball. Because of this, I think we should expect a very similar return to what SD got for Kimbrel and a very similar return to what we got for Gomez last summer. Lucroy is more valuable than Gomez, so I think he alone (without adding in a Mike Fiers type to the deal) should command a haul like these two deals.

[dacrew101]

Very good point on Dombrowski, dude is willing to deal big. Their offense is so good tho but Lucroy is a big upgrade to what they have at catching.. But they have a much bigger need at starting pitching.

[Madhawk23]

Very good point on Dombrowski, dude is willing to deal big. Their offense is so good tho but Lucroy is a big upgrade to what they have at catching.. But they have a much bigger need at starting pitching.

 

I agree that the Red Sox need starting pitching before anything else, so we might not be able to get the best return from them for Luc.

 

How about the following deal with the Rangers though:

 

Brewers get:

Gallo

Tate

Jurado

 

Rangers get:

Lucroy

 

 

Gallo is a bit of a wildcard as he appears to be an all or nothing type bat, so there's no guarantee that you'll get much consistency out of him. Tate has an intriguing arm, but is struggling so far this year in A ball, and Jurado appears to be an exciting young pitching prospect who's pitching well in the Cal league this year. Maybe we could even throw in a reliever in this deal and pick up another lottery ticket arm in Matuella?

 

Would the Rangers consider a deal like this? Is Gallo off limits? I know there is no way we get Mazara from them now with the success he's had already at the MLB level. If not Gallo, what about getting Profar instead, since the Rangers already have Andrus and Odor up the middle?

[danzig6767]

So you think the Brewers could still land the Red Sox untouchable prospects Devers and Espinosa

 

In today's baseball, I don't think there's anyone who is truly "untouchable." Heck, there were rumors that Trout could be traded this year, and if he's not untouchable, no one is. If he were traded, there would be "untouchable" prospects going back to the Angels.

 

The question is whether Lucroy is good enough to bring back an "untouchable" prospect, and I think that's a possibility, though not a given. I think it's more likely he'll get several "Top 100" guys rather than a "Top 10" guy, but this past offseason, Stearns was asking for the moon for Lucroy, which is why he wasn't traded. I believe that other GMs were worried about Lucroy's injuries and his less-than-stellar 2015 season. He's answered these concerns by putting together an MVP-caliber season. Right now, he's probably the best offensive and the best defensive catcher in baseball. Guys like that don't come on the market often, someone will pay heavily for it. Whether that means "Top 10" guy will depend on how much the market heats up over the next month.

 

A lot of people were surprised at the willingness of teams to trade away top prospects last season in trades for players like Tulo, Price, Cueto, and Hamels, and hopefully that trend continues this year.

I don't worry as much about teams being unwilling to trade valuable prospects at the deadline. My bigger concern regarding trading Lucroy is that i just don't see a number of different teams who would want/need a really good catcher bad enough to bid against each other for Luc's services.

 

Come the deadline there are almost always a number of teams looking for pitching, be it a starter or reliever. That's a given. Catcher though is a very specific position and thus in a given year, finding a match with a team who really needs one and is willing to pay a steep price for that guy can be a lot trickier.

[reillymcshane]

Very good point on Dombrowski, dude is willing to deal big. Their offense is so good tho but Lucroy is a big upgrade to what they have at catching.. But they have a much bigger need at starting pitching.

 

I agree that the Red Sox need starting pitching before anything else, so we might not be able to get the best return from them for Luc.

 

How about the following deal with the Rangers though:

 

Brewers get:

Gallo

Tate

Jurado

 

Rangers get:

Lucroy

 

 

Gallo is a bit of a wildcard as he appears to be an all or nothing type bat, so there's no guarantee that you'll get much consistency out of him. Tate has an intriguing arm, but is struggling so far this year in A ball, and Jurado appears to be an exciting young pitching prospect who's pitching well in the Cal league this year. Maybe we could even throw in a reliever in this deal and pick up another lottery ticket arm in Matuella?

 

Would the Rangers consider a deal like this? Is Gallo off limits? I know there is no way we get Mazara from them now with the success he's had already at the MLB level. If not Gallo, what about getting Profar instead, since the Rangers already have Andrus and Odor up the middle?

 

Gallo is generally considered a Top 10 prospect (Top 20 at worst) by most scouts. I doubt you get Tate - a Top 50 type guy - as well, even if he has struggled. He was the 4th pick in the draft last year for a reason. Teams don't give up on talent like that so quickly.

 

The issue with Profor is you only get him for 3 years after 2016. Like with Wheeler, I hate to build a trade around a guy we won't control that long.

[Madhawk23]

Very good point on Dombrowski, dude is willing to deal big. Their offense is so good tho but Lucroy is a big upgrade to what they have at catching.. But they have a much bigger need at starting pitching.

 

I agree that the Red Sox need starting pitching before anything else, so we might not be able to get the best return from them for Luc.

 

How about the following deal with the Rangers though:

 

Brewers get:

Gallo

Tate

Jurado

 

Rangers get:

Lucroy

 

 

Gallo is a bit of a wildcard as he appears to be an all or nothing type bat, so there's no guarantee that you'll get much consistency out of him. Tate has an intriguing arm, but is struggling so far this year in A ball, and Jurado appears to be an exciting young pitching prospect who's pitching well in the Cal league this year. Maybe we could even throw in a reliever in this deal and pick up another lottery ticket arm in Matuella?

 

Would the Rangers consider a deal like this? Is Gallo off limits? I know there is no way we get Mazara from them now with the success he's had already at the MLB level. If not Gallo, what about getting Profar instead, since the Rangers already have Andrus and Odor up the middle?

 

Gallo is generally considered a Top 10 prospect (Top 20 at worst) by most scouts. I doubt you get Tate - a Top 50 type guy - as well, even if he has struggled. He was the 4th pick in the draft last year for a reason. Teams don't give up on talent like that so quickly.

 

The issue with Profor is you only get him for 3 years after 2016. Like with Wheeler, I hate to build a trade around a guy we won't control that long.

 

 

I know Gallo is still considered a Top 10 guy, so I get your point. And I agree that I'd rather have someone more cost controlled than Profar.

 

How about: Gallo, Ortiz and either Matuella or Jurado?

 

Is that still too much for the Rangers to give up? I know Ortiz is a Top 100 guy as well, but I feel like a guy like Luc should be worth a couple of Top 100 guys and then another younger lottery pick type guy.

[paul253]

If we are going to trade with Texas I'd ask for pitching: Tate and Ortiz would headline the deal then maybe Brett Martin to finish it out. Two top 65 prospects and a guy that could be a back of the rotation starter.

[reillymcshane]

 

 

I know Gallo is still considered a Top 10 guy, so I get your point. And I agree that I'd rather have someone more cost controlled than Profar.

 

How about: Gallo, Ortiz and either Matuella or Jurado?

 

Is that still too much for the Rangers to give up? I know Ortiz is a Top 100 guy as well, but I feel like a guy like Luc should be worth a couple of Top 100 guys and then another younger lottery pick type guy.

I think that if you get a Top 10 guy, you probably aren't going to get another Top 100 guy as well. But that's just a guess - it really depends on who the other Top 100 guys is. Ortiz is sitting at #65 on MLB Pipeline - but he's having a good season and already in AA. He's gunning for a Top 50 spot, and may very sell rate out better than Tate to some people (due to Tate's lackluster start this year).

 

Jurado is another guy who could shoot up the prospect lists - someone Texas probably thinks of more highly than the prospect rankings do as of this time (as you noted earlier, he's doing great in the Cal League - a great hitters environment). But if you got Gallo, perhaps you could pry someone like Jurado as well. But getting a Top 10 prospect for 1.5 years of Luc is a pretty solid return. Maybe add in a borderline Top 100 guy as well. Again, that's my opinion.

[brewcrewdue80]

Matz for lucroy.....who says no?

 

With degroom, Harvey and Thor....do the need a 4th starter for the playoffs? If so, still have fatty plus wheeler will be back

 

Mets and it isn't even close. The Mets aren't even leading their division with Matz. They need him on that team and a trade including Matz doesn't make sense. Addition by subtraction for little gain.

 

But the Mets don't need Matz as much as they need Lucroy's offense. In the Playoffs you can run a mostly 3 man rotation. Degrom, Harvey, Syndergaard. Add Wheeler as he's to return plust Colon there's 5. Trade Matz for Lucroy and Plawecki and I suppose you'd have to take that deal if you're Milwaukee without any other pieces. Matz would have 2 more years of team control vs. Wheeler. Mets get a solid to potent bat in Lucroy for 1b/Catcher. James Loney is at .639OPS in his 14games thus far filling Duda's absence. D'Arnaud could still catch, Lucroy at 1b until Duda returns which you then slide Lucroy to Catcher(he's now had games to learn the pitchers in the background vs live play) TDA at bench. I'd assume Duda with his injury isn't playing over 5 games a week, if that and you have Lucroy 1b/TDA Catcher when giving him days off.

 

This is the Mets most often Lineups currently:

Granderson

Asdrubal Cabrera(David Wright if ever plays again this season)

Yoenis Cespedes/Michael Conforto

Neil Walker/Yoenis Cespedes

James Loney/Kelly Johnson

 

Catcher has consistently been #8.

 

Lucroy is better for #2/#3/#5 with Yoenis Cespedes being my #4. Do you give Yoenis someone ahead or behind? Bat him 3rd and Lucroy 4th. Either or it's an improvement in the spots than current and most certainly bumping whoever down, your #8 is stronger than the Catcher were producing.

 

The Mets runs per game now stands at 28th outta 30. Matz won't do them no good come October when they aren't playing in the Playoffs.

[danzig6767]

 

But the Mets don't need Matz as much as they need Lucroy's offense.

No way in hell would the Mets even consider trading Matz for Lucroy. Young lefties with his kind of stuff and under team control until 2022 don't get traded for a 30 year old catcher with only a year and a half of team control unless their GM is a complete idiot. They can look to find a bat at the deadline which wouldn't include trading one of the best young pitchers in the game.

[SRB]

I don't think a team like the Mets is going to trade a key major league piece like Matz or Harvey for Lucroy. Their intention is to win a World Series, so giving away a current contributor is a big ask. The reason they want to unload Wheeler so badly is that he's not currently contributing.

[MrTPlush]

The Mets may only need a three man rotation for the playoffs, but they need five starters to actually get to the playoffs and losing Matz is a giant downgrade for a team that isn't even leading their division as it is.