Lucroy Trades/Proposals (part 2)

[MrTPlush]

Braun/Lucroy/Peralta for Moncada/Swihart/Castillo?

 

Honestly I would probably accept that trade every day of the week because of Moncada. You just don't find players like that often. If a team really believed in Swihart the combination of Moncada/Swihart would be an enormous return.

 

However I don't think it is a good deal. That deal is basically Braun/Peralta for Moncada/Castillo, then Lucroy for Swihart. The first part of that is probably fair, but I think Lucroy could garner a little more himself. Then again how many teams are going to offer a mega prospect? So maybe there is some sacrifice there.

[Warning Track Power]

Newberg and Morris - 2 of the biggest writers on the Rangers scene have been talking back and forth tonight about a thought/rumor in which The Brewers would trade Lucroy and Carter for Tate/Gallo/ and the contract of Fielder, which is a big amount to eat - $110 million bucks thru 2020 - and it should be noted that Prince has been a shadow of himself this year - a .194 average and .555 OPS

If the proposed deal were:

 

Lucroy and Carter for Brinson, Tate and Fielder

 

I would do this immediately.

 

Looking at it both from through the lenses of business and baseball, putting Braun and Fielder out there would be amazing for the Brewers business as it would harken back to a better time (2008 and 2011) while allowing the rest of the team to rebuild. The focus on Braun and Fielder reunited, regardless of record, would certainly attract some casual fans to the ballpark. Regardless of what we as non-casual Brewer fans believe is the best way to build a baseball team, the business aspect certainly will always play some role in determining a portion of the product on the field.

 

From a baseball perspective though, this deal would also make sense. Having a future OF of Brinson, Santana and Phillips, and allowing them to grow naturally (meaning they may come up and may have to be sent back down) would certainly be beneficial. Having Braun in the OF still would enable this. Adding in Arcia and Villar, who is starting to resemble a building block, and you hopefully have 5 of your 8 position players locked in for the next half decade.

 

All the while still trotting out Braun and Fielder.

 

Call me sentimental but I would much enjoy this idea.

[dacrew101]

I wouldn't touch that deal

 

Taking Prince Fielders contract alone should net us a very good prospect or two, thats an insane amount of money for a guy who looks to be a shell of his former self.

 

Throw in Lucroy and carter and it's just overpay imo.. Both are making dirt too.

[MrTPlush]

Woah woah woah woah. That trade is horrible. Lucroy is worth Tate by himself. Ignoring Carter you would be paying $110mil for Brinson. Brinson is not worth $110mil. It would also tie up $35mil or so into two aging sluggers yearly. One of which is already horrible and the other has chronic injuries. You would have to trade Braun at that point.

 

No one is going to be attracted by a Prince Fielder that is fat, old, and no longer has power. It would be awful...like Yuni B recreated as a fat 1B awful

[FVBrewerFan]

Looking at it both from through the lenses of business and baseball, putting Braun and Fielder out there would be amazing for the Brewers business as it would harken back to a better time (2008 and 2011) while allowing the rest of the team to rebuild. The focus on Braun and Fielder reunited, regardless of record, would certainly attract some casual fans to the ballpark.

 

I see quite a few of these comments, or similar comments scattered across BF. I just don't buy it at all. When the team is bad, attendance will be down in April, May, September regardless if either/or Braun and Fielder are around. Or Lucroy, or anyone else. And attendance will be way up June- August. That's just the way it is.

 

Casual fans will show up in the summer, but not in the Spring and Fall unless they're winning- or early on expected to be a winning team. If anything, casual fans would want to come out and see the new toys (Arcia, Hader, Phillips, etc.)

[Boomer5]

Looking at it both from through the lenses of business and baseball, putting Braun and Fielder out there would be amazing for the Brewers business as it would harken back to a better time (2008 and 2011) while allowing the rest of the team to rebuild. The focus on Braun and Fielder reunited, regardless of record, would certainly attract some casual fans to the ballpark.

 

I see quite a few of these comments, or similar comments scattered across BF. I just don't buy it at all. When the team is bad, attendance will be down in April, May, September regardless if either/or Braun and Fielder are around. Or Lucroy, or anyone else. And attendance will be way up June- August. That's just the way it is.

 

Casual fans will show up in the summer, but not in the Spring and Fall unless they're winning- or early on expected to be a winning team. If anything, casual fans would want to come out and see the new toys (Arcia, Hader, Phillips, etc.)

 

That's interesting and I agree.

 

The Milwaukee fanbase is currently very resilient. I am not a fan of Stearns so far as most of moves are churning type moves, HOWEVER if I were Mark A, I might give him a lifetime contract. According to BR, the Brewers are 6th in the NL in attendance (at least a few days ago, haven't checked recently) with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. That's good business there.

[adambr2]

I'm not against taking back Fielder in a trade with Texas, as long as they know it's certainly not for our benefit.

 

Fielder back is a fun storyline and all and might put a few more butts in the stands, but ultimately we'll need to win to see 3M fans again.

 

Any decision by Stearns to take back Prince will be based on business, not nostalgia. They'll need to either eat most of the salary or make it significantly worth our while in terms of a return (assuming this is part of a blockbuster deal for Lucroy )

[beekay414]

Stearns has been awesome so far tbh

 

Chris Carter, Jonathan Villar, Junior Guerra, Kirk Nieuwenhuis for basically nothing while also landing a productive 3B, an innings eater with tons of team control and a very good 2B/SS prospect for Jean Segura and $6 Million. That's 4.5 fWAR for basically nothing at all. The track record is short but the guy knows what he's doing.

 

Can't wait for the haul he brings in for Luc and, perhaps, Braun. Plus, the draft should be really damn interesting and filled with a ton of potential considering we have a 3 headed monster with Stearns, Montgomery and Arnold all putting forth efforts there. Montgomery and Arnold are more than enough for me to have faith in drafting.

 

The outlook of this team is really bright IMO

[dacrew101]

Yeah, Stearn has been great, Villar and Carter were basically free and not much of a drop off if any to Segura and Davis who we got actual prospects for.. Hell, Hill might actually fetch us some lottery tickets

 

Happy with what he's done so far

[pacopete4]

Does Cleveland have what it takes to do a deal? There catcher stinks.

[FVBrewerFan]

Does Cleveland have what it takes to do a deal? There catcher stinks.

 

You know, Cleveland is interesting. Attendance has been horrendous, and they may feel the need to make a run this year. They definitely have the system to offer a good return for Lucroy. They have pitching, OF, and even a Catcher in their Top 10 prospects. (But I'm no expert in other teams' prospects, so I'm sure others here can be more specific.)

[dacrew101]

Dodgers seem like an obvious candidate, they need bats and their catching situation is brutal.

[billymac]

Cleveland does make for an interesting trade candidate for Luc. They are only 2.5 games back from KC at this point. They do have Gomes signed through 2020 with club options in 2021 and 2022 but he has been dreadful at the plate this year slashing 176/215/351 YTD. Cleveland also has the starting pitching to make a deep playoff run in Kluber, Salazar and Carrasco, all of which are controlled through 2020 so they have a 5 year window to try and make a run. Cleveland payroll is at $99M right now.

 

As far as prospects, would this package be too much, not enough?

#3 Bobby Bradley, 1B, Just turned 20, #87 in top 100, leads Carolina league in HR this year

#4 Brady Aiken, LHP, 19, #97 in top 100(Too risky with TJ Surgery?)

 

and 1 of the following:

#5 Justus Sheffield, LHP, 20, #98 in top 100

#6 Triston McKenzie, RHP, 18

 

Their top 2 prospects are Zimmer(#22 overall, 23 years old in AA) and Frazier(#23 overall, 21 years old in AA)

 

Or does Frazier need to be in the deal? Pair him with Phillips for the future OF?

1 Top 50 player, 3 top 100's overall seems like a pretty good haul, at least 2 good young pitchers and one good position player, thoughts? All 3 would likely jump into our Top 10.

[Austin Tatious]

Good stuff, Billymac. I've wondered about Cleveland but I just don't know about their FO thinking about moving their prospects. Lucroy would probably match well with their strong starters. I don't know what they'd do with their existing catcher. Having him be part of the deal I suppose could work as long as we don't get short changed on prospects.

 

Bradley is interesting as a power guy but I just don't know if he's a well rounded hitter. I'd definitely be interested in Aiken, especially if we don't draft Groome. Pint and Aiken both have risk but could be an interesting 1-2, righty-lefty combo coming at the Cubs' formidable lineup. Sheffield is another lefty. Good call on the catching prospect, Meija. Nottingham is hardly a sure thing so having depth and competition is interesting. If we have to come back with a reliever to get a good package done here, I'd consider it. Meija, Aiken, and either Sheffield or Frazier, plus a lower rated teen could be interesting.

[brewcrewdue80]

Cleveland does make for an interesting trade candidate for Luc. They are only 2.5 games back from KC at this point. They do have Gomes signed through 2020 with club options in 2021 and 2022 but he has been dreadful at the plate this year slashing 176/215/351 YTD. Cleveland also has the starting pitching to make a deep playoff run in Kluber, Salazar and Carrasco, all of which are controlled through 2020 so they have a 5 year window to try and make a run. Cleveland payroll is at $99M right now.

 

As far as prospects, would this package be too much, not enough?

#3 Bobby Bradley, 1B, Just turned 20, #87 in top 100, leads Carolina league in HR this year

#4 Brady Aiken, LHP, 19, #97 in top 100(Too risky with TJ Surgery?)

 

and 1 of the following:

#5 Justus Sheffield, LHP, 20, #98 in top 100

#6 Triston McKenzie, RHP, 18

 

Their top 2 prospects are Zimmer(#22 overall, 23 years old in AA) and Frazier(#23 overall, 21 years old in AA)

 

Or does Frazier need to be in the deal? Pair him with Phillips for the future OF?

1 Top 50 player, 3 top 100's overall seems like a pretty good haul, at least 2 good young pitchers and one good position player, thoughts? All 3 would likely jump into our Top 10.

 

Wow I probably mentioned Cleveland and boy do they have high quality depth in their minors. Triston McKenzie reads really well. Rob Kaminsky and Juan Hillman 5/6 in their pitching ranks? Looking at their roster. Plain and simple Lucroy&Smith for Brewers top 4 choices in the prospects. I don't see a dominating Lefty on Cleveland in their bullpen so offering Smith, and they should just be like have at it, the 4 you want.

[ZBTMP]

I doubt Gomes is going to continue to have a sub .200 BABIP and I doubt Cleveland is willing to pull the plug with a far more pressing need in the outfield with Byrd suspended and no timetable for Brantley. We could speculate on Braun but with noone showing up for games to pay his contract and their recent emphasis to improve team defense I doubt he they go in on him.

[FVBrewerFan]

We could speculate on Braun but with noone showing up for games to pay his contract and their recent emphasis to improve team defense I doubt he they go in on him.

 

But that's the thing, they need attendance. They may feel the need to make a big run, and adding a Braun or Lucroy tells the fans they're serious. If it works, they're contending for the division, and fans will follow. And that always carries over to the next season.

 

Problem is, I really doubt Braun would accept a trade to Cleveland.

[splitterpfj]

I'd be shocked if Cleveland traded for a big contract, and just as shocked if Braun would allow a deal to the Indians.

 

If you ask me, a small market team that needs help in the outfield, should keep its top two prospects, who happen to be outfielders - that wipes out Zimmer and Frazier.

 

Brady Aiken is too much of a wildcard, the potential is huge, but he hasn't even pitched in a game yet, my guess there would be, Cleveland's GM wouldn't risk guessing wrong, so I'd cross him off too.

 

1B, Bobby Bradley - huge power potential, but significant risk too. Trading for Bradley would be like drafting Jake Gatewood - the power potential is obvious, but so is the concern about making enough contact to maximize that skill.

 

Perhaps the best match among Cleveland's top prospects - Justus Sheffield. He's a lefty who's not the best pitcher you've ever seen, but one with an honest shot at an extended career as a major league starting pitcher - he's about two years from the big leagues right now.

 

If you want a guy who might pull on a Brewers uniform on the day of the trade, there's RHP Mike Clevinger. Like Sheffield, he's not going to be "the guy", but he should be a good, solid MLB starting pitcher for several seasons.

 

Another interesting prospect would be catcher Francisco Mejia. He's only 20 years old, a full three years from the big leagues, but he's a talented kid.

 

What's the best offer I think Cleveland could make for Lucroy?

 

Bradley, Sheffield or Clevinger, and Mejia

 

Do I think Cleveland will make that offer?

 

No, I do not, I think they'll keep their kids around, to stay young, and less expensive for several seasons.

[Boomer5]

Based on Lucs performance to date, what is the likelihood there is in fact a significant offer on the table now for him?

[dacrew101]

How significant are we talking?

[Boomer5]

How significant are we talking?

 

A deal that would make all of us excited.

[splitterpfj]

Based on Lucs performance to date, what is the likelihood there is in fact a significant offer on the table now for him?

 

The Brewers have been talking to teams about Lucroy for many months now, the parameters have to be there, whether specific offers are ready or not.

 

By now, the Brewers would have told other teams what they're after, and teams have had the chance to evaluate, counter, etc. I would think the "tire kicker" stuff has all been set aside, the truly interested teams have been identified, and their young players have been thoroughly scouted.

 

After all this work, when it happens, I think it's a very short process, and everything favors the Brewers right now. Lucroy is healthy, productive, proven, signed beyond this season, inexpensive, and at a position of short supply. It's rare that so many factors line up, but in this case, they have.

[SRB]

I was surprised to check in on Lucroy's stats recently. He is back to being the best catcher in baseball by a comfortable margin (at least so far this season), even without factoring in his substantial pitch-framing value.

 

Some of these rumors (like a Swihart package) might have made more sense if Lucroy was hurt or having an awful season, and thus you could trade risk for risk, but he's not. His trade value has never been higher than it is right now, and I honestly think a current top-20 prospect should be the starting point in a trade.

[MrTPlush]

Perfect scenario Lucroy might be worth a Top 20 prospect as a center piece, but I doubt that scenario will come to fruition. You need a competing team, desperate for a catcher, Top 20 prospect, and wanting Lucroy at all costs. He should net very similar to what we got for Gomez at worst possibly something better. It all depends on how things shake out.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

I was surprised to check in on Lucroy's stats recently. He is back to being the best catcher in baseball by a comfortable margin (at least so far this season), even without factoring in his substantial pitch-framing value.

 

Some of these rumors (like a Swihart package) might have made more sense if Lucroy was hurt or having an awful season, and thus you could trade risk for risk, but he's not. His trade value has never been higher than it is right now, and I honestly think a current top-20 prospect should be the starting point in a trade.

I'd have to agree with you. I'd bet a lot of teams are kicking themselves because they didn't deal for him in the off-season. If teams thought that DS was asking a lot before I think the price probably has gone up since.