Goose Gossage is mad at everything

[3and2Fastball]

Sports are fun. But I must admit I used to take an extra delight in a player like Barry Sanders who would dominate opponents and then just hand the ball to the ref, no dancing needed

 

I'll also note that Mike Trout doesn't seem to need to showboat. Kid puts his head down and runs hard.

 

Having said that, I don't have a problem with MLB players having fun, flipping bats etc

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't understand the "act like you've been there before" crowd.

 

As a kid we played for fun, we enjoyed the game. It wasn't work or s job.

 

As fans we are paying to be entertained.

 

Somehow when we turn 50 (as evidenced by this thread) we expect a 20-something year old kid who is still playing this game for fun to act like an accountant who just finished a tax return after hitting a home run that entertains and causes 40,000 people to lose their minds in celebration.

 

Get over yourselves. Sports are fun.

 

Boom! Roasted.

 

And agreed.

[homer]

I don't mind bat flips. I mind people that think every home run is worth a bat flip.

[danzig6767]

Yes, I'm old, just turned 50 this week. So maybe it is age and I just grew up in a different time period. I'm not totally against celebrating. The Bautista bat flip was in a huge game at a huge moment, so not that up-in-arms about that. However, I do agree with the Lombardi philosophy of "act like you've been there before". I just think professionals should act like professionals. Clearly I'm in the minority on this and the current generation is more appreciative of the grandstanding.

I'm right there with you, having turned 50 myself this year... I think it is a generational thing for sure.

It is somewhat of a generational issue, but i'm 45 and have zero issues with celebrations today. Same for friends my age who i attend games with. I also think this nonsense of retaliating over petty slights by throwing rock hard baseballs 90 plus mph at hitters which Gossage holds onto as a badge of honor is something i'd come down hard on if i was commissioner. A player could potentially suffer a serious injury from that and all over a petty slight.

 

Passan on Yahoo summed up my thoughts on Gossage perfectly

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-angry-old-man-goose-gossage-is-wrong-about-baseball-s-past--present-and-future-052208311.html

 

"Goose Gossage, a giant bag of gas that somehow figured out how to grow a mustache, f-bombed his way through the landscape of modern baseball Thursday. In an interview with ESPN, he managed to deride the single best moment of the 2015 season, tie the actions of one man to the shame of an entire ethnicity, advocate for concussions, praise pitches intended to injure opponents, yearn for the days that left pitchers' arms in shambles because of overuse and disparage people far smarter than he'll ever be. It was a glorious festival of buffoonery"

[danzig6767]

Sports are fun. But I must admit I used to take an extra delight in a player like Barry Sanders who would dominate opponents and then just hand the ball to the ref, no dancing needed

 

I'll also note that Mike Trout doesn't seem to need to showboat. Kid puts his head down and runs hard.

 

Having said that, I don't have a problem with MLB players having fun, flipping bats etc

That's one great aspect of pro sports, you'll have a variety of personalities on every baseball, basketball, football, or hockey team.

 

Some are naturally quiet and reserved. Some are highly passionate. Some are more cocky. Some are a mixed bag depending on circumstances. For every Manny Ramirez type there is a Robin Yount type of personality. There is a loud Cam Newton in football playing against a reserved Peyton Manning. There are countless conflicting personalities in each sport and most good teams have a nice mix of personalities.

 

What there doesn't need to be in pro sports is a bunch of robots all being forced to conform to mainly just one accepted form of behavior. Fans watching should be able to decide on which players they want to gravitate towards in who they like best, and for whatever reasons without throwing a fit over certain players who don't act in a manner some fans don't prefer or break out the kids today just don't get it line.

 

Once i start complaining about how younger people play sports, the music they listen to, how they dress, etc etc compared to my youth, i really hope that i'm on the last legs of my life instead of still likely having decades left to become an even grumpier curmudgeon.

[MKE81]

I don't understand the "act like you've been there before" crowd.

 

As a kid we played for fun, we enjoyed the game. It wasn't work or s job.

 

As fans we are paying to be entertained.

 

Somehow when we turn 50 (as evidenced by this thread) we expect a 20-something year old kid who is still playing this game for fun to act like an accountant who just finished a tax return after hitting a home run that entertains and causes 40,000 people to lose their minds in celebration.

 

Get over yourselves. Sports are fun.

20 something year olds are playing because they get paid a boat load of money. If they played for fun most would have gone to college then put their degree to work while playing local amateur ball.

 

As a "kid" you played for fun? You mean it wasn't a job when you were 11yrs old? Obviously!!!! You were a kid not an adult paying bills and having responsibilities.

 

As fans we are paying for entertainment. Absolutely. Which is why I don't understand why people who hold your opinion care if players use roids or not. People who have the "act like you've been there" mentality believe a player shouldn't show boat/show up anybody else. This has nothing to do with showing emotion and celebrating a HR that makes 40,000 people lose their minds. They respect their opponent so they consciously choose not to be disrespectful and/or arrogant.

 

Boom. Roasted. Huh?

[1992casey]

I mind people that think every home run is worth a bat flip.

 

Bingo!

 

I'm fine with celebration in proportion to the situation at hand. I'm not fine when celebrating crosses the line into poor sportsmanship.

 

The one thing that bothers me is staring at home runs. Players should be running until the ball leaves the park. Staring at a flyball that gets caught makes the hitter look dumb. Turning a triple into a double because the hitter stood and stared hurts the team.

 

GMs that didn't play aren't new, so I don't get that complaint. I'll grant that David Stearns has nerdy qualities, but so what?

[danzig6767]

 

As fans we are paying for entertainment. Absolutely. Which is why I don't understand why people who hold your opinion care if players use roids or not. People who have the "act like you've been there" mentality believe a player shouldn't show boat/show up anybody else. This has nothing to do with showing emotion and celebrating a HR that makes 40,000 people lose their minds. They respect their opponent so they consciously choose not to be disrespectful and/or arrogant.

 

Boom. Roasted. Huh?

So players in all pro sports should be robot like forced to conform to mainly just one accepted form of behavior, so as not to offend those who seem to feel pro athletes can only celebrate in one fashion?

 

Any MLB player who gets all bent out of shape and feels disrespected over incredibly minor things like how long a batter looks at his home run, if they flip their bat, a pitcher gets all ampped on the mound after a big strikeout, etc etc etc etc, they badly need to grow some thicker skin. These are grown men who are fortunate enough to play a fun game for a living, while also getting paid dollar amounts for a few games that is often more than many people make working a whole year. Talk about searching hard for reasons to feel slighted.

 

There are about 750 major league players each season. Among those many players, there is nothing wrong at all with them displaying their wide array of different personalities, from very reserved to very flashy without some acting like those type of flashy personalities are ruining the game.

[endaround]

Did you see the picture in that article? How dare Goosage disgrace that proud Yankee uniform with facial hair! No respect for tradition!

[jerichoholicninja]

If you don't want the batter to stare down a homerun, don't let him hit one. If you don't want a pitcher to be fired up about getting a strikeout, don't let him strike you out. Seems pretty simple to me.

[MrTPlush]

Its kind of funny, I agree with you in general but I think the Bautista bat flip was probably the worst all year long. Not only was it showing up the pitcher it was uncontrolled and violent and could have easily hurt someone. I'd have tossed him from the game.

 

Is this you as an umpire? Give me a break.

 

[rickh150]

The line between celebration and flaunting/disrespect is thin.

Bat flip.... well, ok.

Bat flip and glare towards pitcher..... Not

 

Yelling "Yeah" and fist pumping to no one in general ..... Again, alright.

Yelling same toward guy just scored on..... Different.

 

Being a 38 year old coach, parent, and teacher....... This used to be obvious to all. Now, disrespect in the name of FUN is fine in many households of brash and bratty kids (unless it happens to them, of course). Trash talk, bad language, huge egos aren't being disciplined/sat/talked to (just ignored....parents want to be friends with kids, coaches want to be "cool" and not be the heavy) at any where close to the rate of even 20 years ago....

 

Before you disagree, go to a youth tournament of any kind. Stay hour after hour. Watch.

[nodakfan17]

I take more issue with Gossage's nerd comment.

 

I'm an analytic who has a steady gig with a large bank. It is not uncommon for large banks (or even smaller community banks) to hire former college or professional athletes as "relationship managers" and give them neat titles like "Senior Vice President - Business Development." Their primary responsibility is to help grow the bank's existing client base by leveraging their existing contacts or tagging along on important sales calls. In some cases, they know very little about the subject at hand (I hate to generalize, some are a quick study). They could be taking a job from another professional man or woman who has spent years in college and / or the banking profession. Many do not last long, but some become tremendous assets to their employer. Point being - there are often multiple good ways to go about things. If ballplayers can be good bankers, why can't analytics be good baseball execs?

 

Professional athletes love to try to imitate other professions (acting, singing, owning a restaurant or car dealership, etc), but get offended when other individuals (many of whom have prepared extensively) get executive or broadcasting jobs in pro sports? Give me a break.

[rickh150]

The line between celebration and flaunting/disrespect is thin.

Bat flip.... well, ok.

Bat flip and glare towards pitcher..... Not

 

Yelling "Yeah" and fist pumping to no one in general ..... Again, alright.

Yelling same toward guy just scored on..... Different.

 

Being a 38 year old coach, parent, and teacher....... This used to be obvious to all. Now, disrespect in the name of FUN is fine in many households of brash and bratty kids (unless it happens to them, of course). Trash talk, bad language, huge egos aren't being disciplined/sat/talked to (just ignored....parents want to be friends with kids, coaches want to be "cool" and not be the heavy) at any where close to the rate of even 20 years ago....

 

Before you disagree, go to a youth tournament of any kind. Stay hour after hour. Watch.

 

 

 

That being said, definitely not on Goose's wing in all this.... I'll choose door number 3 (much like the presidential race).

[dlk9s]

We can disagree about this stuff all day, but I think we can all agree that Korean league bat flips are the absolute best.

[DuWayne Steurer]

We can disagree about this stuff all day, but I think we can all agree that Korean league bat flips are the absolute best.

Of this, there can be no doubt. They even flip bats for long foul balls, and I heart that.

[Ennder]

I don't understand the "act like you've been there before" crowd.

 

As a kid we played for fun, we enjoyed the game. It wasn't work or s job.

 

As fans we are paying to be entertained.

 

Somehow when we turn 50 (as evidenced by this thread) we expect a 20-something year old kid who is still playing this game for fun to act like an accountant who just finished a tax return after hitting a home run that entertains and causes 40,000 people to lose their minds in celebration.

 

Get over yourselves. Sports are fun.

 

My kids played baseball while growing up, they had players on their teams that liked to rub success in the opponents face. At no point did I find this fun even though we were winning, I found it to be obnoxious that nobody was telling this kid to respect the other team instead of showing disrespect to them. Excessive celebration, especially those that are thick with attitude like Joey Bats or Cam Newton are just really bad for sports. They spit on the idea of sportsmanship and demeans the sport as a whole.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I'm 43, and have kind of an old school mentality. Yes, I do believe act like you've been there before, but also don't mind celebrations in a special occasions occur. I didn't mind Bautista's bat toss, but I don't want to see it when a team is up 5 runs or that homer makes them still down 3 runs.

 

I couldn't stand Jermichael Finley and his 1st down celebration every time he would get a first down. A late big play in a tight game, sure. But not on the first series of a 0-0 game.

 

I didn't mind the Larry Bird or Michael Jordan trash talking, but don't want to see a player standing over another thumping his chest.

[jw5511986]

I'm 43, and have kind of an old school mentality. Yes, I do believe act like you've been there before, but also don't mind celebrations in a special occasions occur. I didn't mind Bautista's bat toss, but I don't want to see it when a team is up 5 runs or that homer makes them still down 3 runs.

 

I couldn't stand Jermichael Finley and his 1st down celebration every time he would get a first down. A late big play in a tight game, sure. But not on the first series of a 0-0 game.

 

I didn't mind the Larry Bird or Michael Jordan trash talking, but don't want to see a player standing over another thumping his chest.

 

I think some of that stuff polices itself. I'm pushing 30 so this is basically the tail end of my generation playing now but I remember when I was younger one game in which we were getting crushed and a player hit a meaningless home run that took us from like down 12 to down 11. He hot dogged it around the bases and then in the dugout and had the nerve to get angry when we weren't celebrating with him. We all made sure to remind him how badly we were getting beat and that was that. I think players are capable of telling when something is and isn't appropriate and will self-police if not. We don't need old timers to tell us how things were once, because that's not how they are any more.

[QuevedosTongue]

I'm 43, and have kind of an old school mentality. Yes, I do believe act like you've been there before, but also don't mind celebrations in a special occasions occur. I didn't mind Bautista's bat toss, but I don't want to see it when a team is up 5 runs or that homer makes them still down 3 runs.

 

I couldn't stand Jermichael Finley and his 1st down celebration every time he would get a first down. A late big play in a tight game, sure. But not on the first series of a 0-0 game.

 

I didn't mind the Larry Bird or Michael Jordan trash talking, but don't want to see a player standing over another thumping his chest.

 

This! I like it when players make a play and celebrate, if it's a big enough deal. Jumping up to make the first down motion all the frickin' time gets old, as would a bat flip after a HR that takes a team from down 6 to down 5, or something like that. I'm also not a big fan of the scripted TD celebrations (except I really miss Aaron Rodgers doing the belt thing).

 

What I really dislike is that there is a group of players who think ANY kind of celebration is wrong and they usually spout the 'right way to play the game' crap about it. Have some room for spontaneity.

[DuWayne Steurer]

This is not anything we didn't already know (and not starting a separate topic, because it's very similar), but Colby Rasmus says the Cardinals entire organization is a bunch of old 50 year old men.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/03/12/colby-rasmus-houston-astros-st-louis-cardinals/81686706/?hootPostID=f5ea29b340e6f263bb594c509907d57d

[danzig6767]

The line between celebration and flaunting/disrespect is thin.

Bat flip.... well, ok.

Bat flip and glare towards pitcher..... Not

 

Yelling "Yeah" and fist pumping to no one in general ..... Again, alright.

Yelling same toward guy just scored on..... Different.

 

Being a 38 year old coach, parent, and teacher....... This used to be obvious to all. Now, disrespect in the name of FUN is fine in many households of brash and bratty kids (unless it happens to them, of course). Trash talk, bad language, huge egos aren't being disciplined/sat/talked to (just ignored....parents want to be friends with kids, coaches want to be "cool" and not be the heavy) at any where close to the rate of even 20 years ago....

 

Before you disagree, go to a youth tournament of any kind. Stay hour after hour. Watch.

That's on the parents and coaches of the kids, not pro athletes. I have a kid and have coached Little League, never did i think it was that hard to get kids to follow rules placed for them. Set guidelines and the consequences if those demands aren't followed. Gotta stick to those guidelines and the consequences though because most kids will very quickly pick up on authority figures who set rules, but often fail to follow up on the consequences aspect.

 

There are all kinds of things in life which adults are able to do, but kids aren't. It's up to parents and authority figures to set those guidelines, be it sports or a wide variety of other activities. Parents who can't control their kids and instead blame societal influences for why their kid or kids behave like brats are simply weak parents. Until maybe a child reaches his/her late teens, a parent/parents, they hold all of the power in the relationship. Simply use it and a kid will behave.

[gregmag]

I can't decide which of danzig6767's posts to quote, and I can't figure out how to quote multiple posts because I'm 48, but as usual I think he's right about pretty much everything.

 

I'm never going to tell anyone not to have an "old school" attitude. If you have ideas about "playing the game the right way," that's cool. If you want to criticize people who play the game differently, we can respectfully agree to disagree.

 

My problem comes when people try to impose their views on others by force. If you argue that retaliation for batflips or whatever is appropriate, that bothers me. We'd all like for everyone to behave in accordance with our own views of the world. But trying to make that happen is generally a pretty bad way to run any kind of organization, whether it's a sports league or a society. Celebrating may seem obnoxious to a lot of people. Aggressively showing up another player seems obnoxious even to me. We can talk and argue about that stuff forever, and it can be an interesting discussion. But throwing at another player is dangerous; it crosses a line.

[QuevedosTongue]

This is not anything we didn't already know (and not starting a separate topic, because it's very similar), but Colby Rasmus says the Cardinals entire organization is a bunch of old 50 year old men.

 

And this seems to be the point that everybody in Cardinal Nation missed when Jason Heyward decided to sign with the Cubs. Personnel notwithstanding, would anybody rather play for Mike Matheny than Joe Maddon? I'm sure personnel was an issue, but I'm pretty sure the attitude of the organization was part of it as well.

[jerichoholicninja]

This is not anything we didn't already know (and not starting a separate topic, because it's very similar), but Colby Rasmus says the Cardinals entire organization is a bunch of old 50 year old men.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2016/03/12/colby-rasmus-houston-astros-st-louis-cardinals/81686706/?hootPostID=f5ea29b340e6f263bb594c509907d57d

 

I've always wondered why more players don't say similar things after they leave St. Louis. I suppose they don't want to ruffle any feathers (or get thrown at). I remember a couple years ago when the Cardinals pulled their usual beanball crap against the Brewers and some Brewers spoke up about it. Yet, there was not a peep from Lohse who had just spent 5 or 6 years being indoctrinated in it.