Segura to DBacks [RHP Tyler Wagner also included; return is $5.5M, 2B Aaron Hill, RHP Chase Anderson, & SS/2B Isan Diaz]

[LouisEly]

I was going to post last week that something would happen this weekend, but got too busy. Why? Because every time I leave to go on vacation (or some kind of recreational/fun trip) something like this happens. It's hilarious.

 

The more I think about the trade the more I like it. What I like is that Stearns seems to understand the concept of lineup balance, as he seems to deliberately be targeting LH hitters. No more RH-dominant rosters. The fact that Diaz hits lefty is a big plus. He's a long way away though. It also depends on what happens with Anderson and if they can flip him for more prospects.

 

Since Wagner was included in the deal does this qualify as a "prospect for prospect" trade?

[logan82]

 

 

"Gennett is losing shine"? Where's the evidence of that? Against RHP, he's a career .307/.339/.458 hitter. He had a bad start in 2015 but was the same hitter he was the prior two years after a stint in the minors.

 

Walsh is no sure thing. Need a backup to Villar at SS? You stick Hill at 3B, and have Perez and Walsh as IF backups. Perez has value as a guy who can play all over the IF. There's absolutely no reason either Middlebrooks or Cecchini have to make the team.

 

I don't know maybe having 28XBH in 114games 6HRs 1SB and only 12BBs?

 

By losing his shine I mean what's his upside? Platoon bat 8HRs 2SBs and adequate defense? Shine is over for me. He offers 0 Plus skills anywhere. Just Average or below average. Walsh only had 54XBH 13HRs 17SBs and oh over 100BBs last season batting from both sides of the plate. a near .400OB pct. You're proud of .339 against RHP. The franchise just has better options to play someone with at least a Plus somewhere vs avg/below avg. Walsh's worst OBP in any of the minor with 10games+ played in a season is .313. That would be about the avg. Gennett has given the Brewers the last 2 seasons combined as a platoon type of bat.

Tell me what Shine he presents anymore?

 

He's put up respectable numbers against major league pitchers for 3 years and Walsh has not had one day in the bigs. I looked it up for a post a few months ago and I can't remember the exact numbers but Scooters career OPS against RHP would have been top 5 OPS among all 2B the last two seasons. And when you face RHP 75% of the time there's great value in a player like that.

 

Scooter has actually turned out to be exactly what he was projected to be: average defense, high batting average, adequate obp, but with more power than people thought. I was a Scooter-hater when he was coming up and expected him to be a massive failure but he's proven me wrong and I'm more than content to riding with him until he's a free agent.

He is what we thought he was. A platoon bat with not horrible defense. No walks and not much power.

[adambr2]

Farm wise, we've come a long ways from Hunter Morris and Scooter Gennett being our top prospects. Or as Michael Hunt referred to them, our 'can't miss' prospects.

[trwi7]

I was going to post last week that something would happen this weekend, but got too busy. Why? Because every time I leave to go on vacation (or some kind of recreational/fun trim) something like this happens. It's hilarious.

 

The more I think about the trade the more I like it. What I like is that Stearns seems to understand the concept of lineup balance, as he seems to deliberately be targeting LH hitters. No more RH-dominant rosters. The fact that Diaz hits lefty is a big plus. He's a long way away though. It also depends on what happens with Anderson and if they can flip him for more prospects.

 

Since Wagner was included in the deal does this qualify as a "prospect for prospect" trade?

 

Can you just be on vacation all the time? We need constant hot stove action.

[MenchHead]

I really like the trade. I liked Wagner but it seems the Brewers have a lot of similar ceiling arms in the minors already. Diaz is the prize and I don't really consider Hill in this trade. The money owed isn't all that significant considering the current payroll situation. It's not a given he makes it out of spring training-or any of the guys Stearns has brought on board to the major league club for that matter. He's at worst a bad backup at 2B/3B on a not very good team. I'm also not too concerned about the log-jam at certain positions or how the 25-man/40-man will fill out. Stearns has a whole lot of time and pieces to play with, considering it's February 1st. I think spring training will answer our questions on who the roster consists of and where said players fit in Milwaukee. There are very few players Stearns has brought aboard this off-season in which he gave up much/anything so I doubt he'd bat an eye to DFA a single one. Everyone has their favorite players they want to do well out of the group but it really is a crap-shoot at this point... And I'm weirdly excited about it.

[Boomer5]

Gotta figure Gennett's days are numbered for no other reason than he just doesn't fit what Stearns wants in a player - flexibility. He is the opposite of that. He can really only play 2B against righties.

 

Agreed. I can see him traded pretty soon, though I haven't explored the potential market for him, if any. The amount of middle infielders we have acquired, and Im not counting Hill, spells the end for Scooter.

[Boomer5]

I was going to post last week that something would happen this weekend, but got too busy. Why? Because every time I leave to go on vacation (or some kind of recreational/fun trim) something like this happens. It's hilarious.

 

The more I think about the trade the more I like it. What I like is that Stearns seems to understand the concept of lineup balance, as he seems to deliberately be targeting LH hitters. No more RH-dominant rosters. The fact that Diaz hits lefty is a big plus. He's a long way away though. It also depends on what happens with Anderson and if they can flip him for more prospects.

 

Since Wagner was included in the deal does this qualify as a "prospect for prospect" trade?

 

Thats an interesting way to look at it. I still feel this is Segura and Wagner for Anderson and $6.5M for Diaz with Hill being worthless like Arroyo and the Braves.

[RobDeer 45]

I too am on board for supporting this trade. I'm really enjoying David's approach to the organization. It needed a reboot and he's giving it that. Of course the big question is, will some of these prospects turn out? We don't know, but he's at least giving us a shot to have high end prospects in a few years. I didn't think I'd have much excitement going in to this season, but he's changed that thought. I can't wait to see how the organization develops over the coming years.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm not against the trade, but would have liked to keep the Wagner/Anderson part out of it. Segura for Diaz basically. I just don't like trading a guy who made it all the way up through the system, and was going to be the #6 starter this season. If this was the deal and they needed an arm, give them Cravy, Hall, someone like that.

 

People are convinced Wagner is nothing more than a #5 starter, before he even had the chance to prove himself. Well, Anderson has proven himself he's nothing more than a #5 starter, and he's older and won't be a factor when they turn the ship around.

 

Same thing with Cy Sneed, to a lessor degree. I don't mind throwing the Sardinas of the world as sweetners in these deals, but not our home-grown starting pitchers.

[CheezWizHed]

I think the Wagner/Anderson swap was needed to bring back Diaz. Wagner has more upside, but getting Anderson back lessens the loss.

 

I don't think Segura by himself would've made a Hill/Diaz trade very fair.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think the Wagner/Anderson swap was needed to bring back Diaz. Wagner has more upside, but getting Anderson back lessens the loss.

 

I don't think Segura by himself would've made a Hill/Diaz trade very fair.

 

I do, if the Brewers paid a big chunk of Hill's contract. Yes, Diaz is very highly regarded but he hasn't even completed a season above rookie ball. If he had those kind of numbers in A+ or even A ball, that would be one thing. But it's not like he's Cano already just because a few scouts think so.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love picking up a high ceiling player like this for Segura. I just think we could have done so without giving up Wagner. But that tells me they weren't too high on him, we'll see. Not real thrilled Hill will be taking playing time and ABs away from the younger guys either.

[Boomer5]

I think the Wagner/Anderson swap was needed to bring back Diaz. Wagner has more upside, but getting Anderson back lessens the loss.

 

I don't think Segura by himself would've made a Hill/Diaz trade very fair.

 

I do, if the Brewers paid a big chunk of Hill's contract. Yes, Diaz is very highly regarded but he hasn't even completed a season above rookie ball. If he had those kind of numbers in A+ or even A ball, that would be one thing. But it's not like he's Cano already just because a few scouts think so.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love picking up a high ceiling player like this for Segura. I just think we could have done so without giving up Wagner. But that tells me they weren't too high on him, we'll see. Not real thrilled Hill will be taking playing time and ABs away from the younger guys either.

 

A team like the Brewers wouldnt have traded Wagner unless they felt he didnt have upside. If they liked him, why trade for a mediocre 28 year old 4th starter, when in theory Wagner/Davies could have done it once Garza was traded or DFA'd?

 

Hill was just a contract so the Brewers could purchase Diaz.

[Boomer5]

I'm not against the trade, but would have liked to keep the Wagner/Anderson part out of it. Segura for Diaz basically. I just don't like trading a guy who made it all the way up through the system, and was going to be the #6 starter this season. If this was the deal and they needed an arm, give them Cravy, Hall, someone like that.

 

People are convinced Wagner is nothing more than a #5 starter, before he even had the chance to prove himself. Well, Anderson has proven himself he's nothing more than a #5 starter, and he's older and won't be a factor when they turn the ship around.

 

Same thing with Cy Sneed, to a lessor degree. I don't mind throwing the Sardinas of the world as sweetners in these deals, but not our home-grown starting pitchers.

 

I agree. I see no reason why the Brewers would trade for an Anderson unless its to flip him down the road. The 2016 Brewers have no need for a Chase Anderson unless they know something projectable about him the rest of the league doesn't.

[Ennder]

I think Anderson is better than his stats suggest last year. He pitched through a sore arm and once he came back from the DL he was significantly better.

 

He had a 5 game stretch before going on the DL where he pitched 25 IP with 26 ER, 9 HR, with just 5.61 K/9 and 3.16 BB/9.

 

The rest of his starts before and after that stretch look a whole lot like the 2014 and minor league numbers. It will not surprise me if he is the Brewers 2nd or 3rd best Starter next year.

[tmwiese55]

Anderson is there for depth, these rebuild seasons are a lot less painful to the fans if you're losing 6-3 instead of 11-3 and you're not down 6-0 after two innings, which is what comes when you have to run out minor leaguers or days of all bullpen pitching. For example, last April was horrible to watch as a fan, the rest of the year was fine. And just overall it's less painful if you win 70 games instead of 56.

 

Cheezwiz, hit it on the head regarding giving up Wagner for Anderson. You have to give something up, deals can't all be one sided.

[1992casey]

I think it's useful that Anderson shouldn't need an innings limit. While we have other older pitchers that fall into this category, adding Chase will allow for some trade flexibility.

 

Hill's going to need to make some adjustments. I hear that he's a pull hitter, and with declining skills, pulling all the time isn't working anymore. If he doesn't show the ability to adjust, cut ties. If he does, showcase him as trade bait.

[pacopete4]

What I like about Anderson is that he is a guy that doesn't walk a lot of guys. It's refreshing when a pitcher is not giving up free bases. He is a nice get for the Brewers staff on a rebuilding club. He should provide stability in the pitching staff. Hopefully Garza can figure it out and do the same and all of a sudden we have two veteran pitchers that other teams might be knocking down our door to get.

[brewcrewdue80]

 

 

"Gennett is losing shine"? Where's the evidence of that? Against RHP, he's a career .307/.339/.458 hitter. He had a bad start in 2015 but was the same hitter he was the prior two years after a stint in the minors.

 

Walsh is no sure thing. Need a backup to Villar at SS? You stick Hill at 3B, and have Perez and Walsh as IF backups. Perez has value as a guy who can play all over the IF. There's absolutely no reason either Middlebrooks or Cecchini have to make the team.

 

I don't know maybe having 28XBH in 114games 6HRs 1SB and only 12BBs?

 

By losing his shine I mean what's his upside? Platoon bat 8HRs 2SBs and adequate defense? Shine is over for me. He offers 0 Plus skills anywhere. Just Average or below average. Walsh only had 54XBH 13HRs 17SBs and oh over 100BBs last season batting from both sides of the plate. a near .400OB pct. You're proud of .339 against RHP. The franchise just has better options to play someone with at least a Plus somewhere vs avg/below avg. Walsh's worst OBP in any of the minor with 10games+ played in a season is .313. That would be about the avg. Gennett has given the Brewers the last 2 seasons combined as a platoon type of bat.

 

Tell me what Shine he presents anymore?

 

You are comparing minor league stats to major league stats...do you not see anything wrong with that? Your argument holds no water until he performs at the top level. Don't you think there might be a reason he was left unprotected and even able to be selected in the Rule 5? You act like he is some sure bet to produce. He was 25 at AA, already had prior experience at AA, and even had a good chunk of at-bats at AAA.

 

Sometimes a club has to decide who to protect and who to save and allow a guy like Walsh to risk being taken. The Brewers have to play Walsh for what 80% of the season? Or he's returned to Oakland. How many competing teams are going to use a 25man spot to play a rookie 2b? Oakland has Sogard for now, Semien with Barretto to consider first. Sure Walsh hasn't had any ABs at ML level. Scooter has and it's not looking like he'll every be anything but 2war at best. Meanwhile Walsh who broke out is a switch-hitter a .400ob record. More HR/SB potential... there's just no reason to not see this guy get PAs who grew last season vs a guy regressing for a 2nd straight year? If Scooter gets dropped and magically produces that 2WAR season, will anyone shed a tear here we missed out on that?

Upside not higher floor is what should be given PAs if possible.

[pacopete4]

We know what we have in Scooter. We have no idea what Walsh can do at the MLB level. If we are truly rebuilding, it makes no sense to not see what Walsh can bring to this team. Scooter will be an after though before contending again.

[FVBrewerFan]

We know what we have in Scooter. We have no idea what Walsh can do at the MLB level. If we are truly rebuilding, it makes no sense to not see what Walsh can bring to this team. Scooter will be an after though before contending again.

 

If we are truly rebuilding, no sense for Hill to ever see the field. Scooter at least has value for the right team at the trade deadline. No matter what his limitations are, he can hit RHP.

[markedman5]

From TH

 

So, Brewers must pay Hill $5.5 M but they also subtracted $2.6 M salary of Jean Segura. Thus, minimal addition to payroll.

[bill hAll Star]

We know what we have in Scooter. We have no idea what Walsh can do at the MLB level. If we are truly rebuilding, it makes no sense to not see what Walsh can bring to this team. Scooter will be an after though before contending again.

 

If we are truly rebuilding, no sense for Hill to ever see the field. Scooter at least has value for the right team at the trade deadline. No matter what his limitations are, he can hit RHP.

 

Hill can be the platoon mate at 3B and 2B. We only really have Middlebrooks as the LHP side of the platoon at 3B and there is no guarantee he plays in the majors (might also be in the outfield a bit, no?).

 

Let Hill play 3B and especially 2B against LHP. Tout nice numbers from veteran to contending team at the deadline (yes, I know most teams can see through the numbers) and trade him for something...anything of value.

[Cooper]

Pretty interesting read by Jeff Sullivan on Anderson's uptick in velocity after his DL stay:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-brewers-quiet-upside-play/

 

A trade that I find encouraging became all the more interesting to me. It'll be fun to see what the Brewers can do with him.

[SRB]

Farm wise, we've come a long ways from Hunter Morris and Scooter Gennett being our top prospects. Or as Michael Hunt referred to them, our 'can't miss' prospects.

 

No offense to Morris, but it is kind of shocking to think back and realize that he used to be #1 in the system.

[FVBrewerFan]

He was AA player of the year, not a bad #1 at the time at all.