Segura to DBacks [RHP Tyler Wagner also included; return is $5.5M, 2B Aaron Hill, RHP Chase Anderson, & SS/2B Isan Diaz]

[adambr2]

To me, what Aaron Hill brings us is insignificant, even irrelevant. I doubt his coming here boils down to much more than something we did for the D'Backs in return for Diaz.

[pacopete4]

I'll give Hill a better shot at a rebound over Segura. At least Hill was good for more than a 1/2 a season. If he rebounds, sweet, we flip him for another piece. If he doesn't, oh well. We don't have to watch Segura weakly groundout to the SS for another year and we got a good prospect to go along with it. Plus more depth at SP.

[umphrey]

He needs to hit a little bit better but it is possible that we trade Aaron Hill next July and someone takes the other half of his contract and we basically pay him nothing. Especially if we play him around the diamond a little bit, a contender would pay $5M for an experienced utility guy assuming he can hit a little better.

[MNBrew]

....In our market, we can't let it dip like we did after 2011. Keep it roaring. Only trade prospects if there are enough left over. That's how we can fine tune our next run. Inject the big league club with precocious talent here and there. Last time around, our farm system ran out of gas after we traded any semblance of depth from the system.

I agree with your full post overall and most of your points, but the gist of the last sentence is oft-repeated on this board and misses a huge, obvious detail: We traded 5 prospects in 2 pre-2011 trades. That's all. 5 guys.

 

- Jeffress proved to be a bust for 3 years until he returned to MIL.

- Cain took 3 years to become a solid MLB regular and was an AAA guy on the fringe of the bigs when we traded him.

- Nowadays people on this board are still more inclined to point out Escobar's flaws than plusses.

- Lawrie made a good initial splash in TOR but has yet to deliver anything much better than that splash in the time since, though he's still viewed as promising overall.

- Odorizzi has finally established himself as an MLB starter but hasn't yet delivered consistent top-of-rotation results, either.

 

Trading those 5 guys didn't kill our depth. Rather, those trades proved we had little depth behind them. But if all our obvious/quality depth was 5 guys, the system wasn't good enough anyway and we really had no good depth to begin with, just a little cream on the top that helped us ignore the major void below. For all the assertions that those trades gutted our farm system, I'd counter that 5 players isn't a gutting but rather a revelation that there was precious little to gut in the first place.

 

(That said, there are guys currently in the bigs -- Nelson, Peralta, Davis, & Gennett were in the system already, and Jungmann was drafted in June 2011 -- who've also proven that the issue at that time wasn't a total dearth of quality, just a serious lack of blue chip prospects.)

 

On a different point made a little earlier in the thread, there's a good reason Hernan Perez is an NRI guy this spring and it would be all the more incriminating of all Stearns' other pickups if Perez and his lousy swing-at-everything bat makes the Opening Day roster over the likes of Middlebrooks and several other more appealing IF roster candidates.

[3and2Fastball]

Scooter Gennett is very under appreciated.

 

I strongly agree. It'd be different if Gennett's platoon strength was vs LHP. But a LH hitter who does well vs RHP (career .307/.339 vs RHP, even last year he was .279/.310 vs RHP) and plays fairly decent 2B (overall a positive dWAR score, he's not Brandon Phillips with the glove but he can play the position) has plenty of value. And he's only entering his age 26 season. And he is still playing for league minimum, isn't arby eligible until 2017 and is under team control until 2020. All of those things are very valuable aspects of having him on the roster.

 

The Brewers aren't going to just give him away. Scooter is "young controllable talent". Obviously he'd have more value if he walked more or if he played multiple positions, but just taken for who he is, Scooter is a good player.

[Oldcity]

Not claiming they should give him away, but pointing to a .310 OBP against a platoon advantage should be a strike against him, not something supporting him staying.

[liveforoctober]

As an Appleton native ... should I be getting my hopes up of Diaz starting the year here or will he be shipped right to High A?

[3and2Fastball]

As an Appleton native ... should I be getting my hopes up of Diaz starting the year here or will he be shipped right to High A?

 

I'm hopeful he'll at least start the season at Appleton. The only experience he has is Rookie Ball. It'd probably be a mild disappointment if he doesn't finish the season in High A, though.

[And That]

I don't get the feeling that it would be the Brewers' MO to send him directly to Brevard, but I guess with a huge spring it's possible. There are a lot of moving parts in the middle/left side of the infield in and around A ball. In addition to Isan Diaz, depends how things shake out with Neuhaus, Gatewood, Lara, Cuas, Iskendarian, Allemand, Ortega, Matos, Oquendo, Mallen, Aviles, McFarland, Betancourt, Brennan, and DeMuth (if I'm not forgetting anyone else). Plus Brandon Diaz if they move him back to second base.

 

BTW, I've heard Diaz' first name said a few different ways by talking heads. If I can trust my 3 semesters of college Spanish, his first name is pronounced "ee-sahn." Like Nissan, without the N.

[ewitkows]

As an Appleton native ... should I be getting my hopes up of Diaz starting the year here or will he be shipped right to High A?

 

I'm hopeful he'll at least start the season at Appleton. The only experience he has is Rookie Ball. It'd probably be a mild disappointment if he doesn't finish the season in High A, though.

 

That's asking a lot out of a kid who is only 19 and struggled the first time in rookie ball

[1992casey]

If I can trust my 3 semesters of college Spanish, his first name is pronounced "ee-sahn." Like Nissan, without the N.

 

Yep. Unless we start seeing the name spelled with an accent mark placed above the second syllable, it should be EE-sahn. (Words ending in a vowel, n, or s stress the second to the last syllable unless an accent mark tells us otherwise.)

[TooLiveBrew]

As an Appleton native ... should I be getting my hopes up of Diaz starting the year here or will he be shipped right to High A?

I'm hoping he's assigned to Appleton as well (as another native). I couldn't find it in this thread, but another BF poster recently listed out what the T-Rats' lineup could look like in 2016, & it's pretty stacked.

 

EDIT: Found it, post #94 by YoungGeezy1

 

What no one is talking about

1B Perry

2B Diaz

SS Lara

3B Gatewood

LF Clark

CF Harrison

RF Orimoloye

C Atencio

 

That could realistically be our Wisconsin Line Up!

[sveumrules]

Love the trade. Have always been a fan of Chase Anderson's change up, pure filth. Also wanted to throw in that I took in four Helena/Missoula games this summer and was really impressed by Diaz. Kid seemed to have a pretty good idea what he was doing at the plate and a real knack for barreling up/making hard contact.

[And That]

Stearns indicated that they're going to keep Diaz at SS for now, and assuming he starts off in Wisconsin, that indicates that either Gatewood or Lara will be moved off of shortstop. I doubt Lara breaks camp in full season ball anyway so there is probably no reason to move him now, but if Gatewood, Diaz, and Neuhaus are all on the same team, Diaz plays short, Gatewood is at third, and Neuhaus stays at second.

[brewmann04]

I would agree that seems to be plan and it's time the brewers find their future 3rd baseman.

[adambr2]

As an Appleton native ... should I be getting my hopes up of Diaz starting the year here or will he be shipped right to High A?

 

I'm hopeful he'll at least start the season at Appleton. The only experience he has is Rookie Ball. It'd probably be a mild disappointment if he doesn't finish the season in High A, though.

 

That's asking a lot out of a kid who is only 19 and struggled the first time in rookie ball

 

I don't think so. He'll be 20 in May. If he can get a taste of High A this year, head to Biloxi summer of next year, make it to triple A the following season, and make it to the big leagues in June of 2019 at age 23, that seems like a realistic timeline to me.

[SRB]

I don't think so. He'll be 20 in May. If he can get a taste of High A this year, head to Biloxi summer of next year, make it to triple A the following season, and make it to the big leagues in June of 2019 at age 23, that seems like a realistic timeline to me.

 

Realistic if he continues to tear the cover off the ball and becomes an elite prospect, which I'm all in favor of

[splitterpfj]

I'm late to the party, but I like the trade. This one fits the recent trend, I love the addition of Isan Diaz, each move is bringing more talented young kids - this is precisely what the team should be doing.

[monty57]

Love picking up another high upside youngster, and Segura was getting expensive for his production. It's also nice to add a controllable MLB pitcher, but I hope they eat more of Hill's salary and flip him for anything as he really doesn't do anything for the team.

 

I'm pretty excited about all the young talent the Brewers have amassed, and am looking forward to seeing the kids progress.

[Jenkins5]

BC is brutal on hitters, more so ones with power..... I'd let him build confidence in Wisconsin and continue to have success before he must go through the BC grind. No need to rush him. Let him develop with our next way. He has only played in R+. Really we are in no hurry, develop him right, let his success carry him forward to promotions.

[brewcrewdue80]

 

 

"Gennett is losing shine"? Where's the evidence of that? Against RHP, he's a career .307/.339/.458 hitter. He had a bad start in 2015 but was the same hitter he was the prior two years after a stint in the minors.

 

Walsh is no sure thing. Need a backup to Villar at SS? You stick Hill at 3B, and have Perez and Walsh as IF backups. Perez has value as a guy who can play all over the IF. There's absolutely no reason either Middlebrooks or Cecchini have to make the team.

 

I don't know maybe having 28XBH in 114games 6HRs 1SB and only 12BBs?

 

By losing his shine I mean what's his upside? Platoon bat 8HRs 2SBs and adequate defense? Shine is over for me. He offers 0 Plus skills anywhere. Just Average or below average. Walsh only had 54XBH 13HRs 17SBs and oh over 100BBs last season batting from both sides of the plate. a near .400OB pct. You're proud of .339 against RHP. The franchise just has better options to play someone with at least a Plus somewhere vs avg/below avg. Walsh's worst OBP in any of the minor with 10games+ played in a season is .313. That would be about the avg. Gennett has given the Brewers the last 2 seasons combined as a platoon type of bat.

 

Tell me what Shine he presents anymore?

[RobertR]

From what I can tell, the Brewers got the best player in the deal in Chase Anderson and the player with the most upside in Diaz. Honestly, I wouldn't put it past Stearns to understand the concept of sunk cost and not even bother with Aaron Hill past spring training. This is a really good deal.

[MrTPlush]

 

 

"Gennett is losing shine"? Where's the evidence of that? Against RHP, he's a career .307/.339/.458 hitter. He had a bad start in 2015 but was the same hitter he was the prior two years after a stint in the minors.

 

Walsh is no sure thing. Need a backup to Villar at SS? You stick Hill at 3B, and have Perez and Walsh as IF backups. Perez has value as a guy who can play all over the IF. There's absolutely no reason either Middlebrooks or Cecchini have to make the team.

 

I don't know maybe having 28XBH in 114games 6HRs 1SB and only 12BBs?

 

By losing his shine I mean what's his upside? Platoon bat 8HRs 2SBs and adequate defense? Shine is over for me. He offers 0 Plus skills anywhere. Just Average or below average. Walsh only had 54XBH 13HRs 17SBs and oh over 100BBs last season batting from both sides of the plate. a near .400OB pct. You're proud of .339 against RHP. The franchise just has better options to play someone with at least a Plus somewhere vs avg/below avg. Walsh's worst OBP in any of the minor with 10games+ played in a season is .313. That would be about the avg. Gennett has given the Brewers the last 2 seasons combined as a platoon type of bat.

 

Tell me what Shine he presents anymore?

 

You are comparing minor league stats to major league stats...do you not see anything wrong with that? Your argument holds no water until he performs at the top level. Don't you think there might be a reason he was left unprotected and even able to be selected in the Rule 5? You act like he is some sure bet to produce. He was 25 at AA, already had prior experience at AA, and even had a good chunk of at-bats at AAA.

[homer]

Gotta figure Gennett's days are numbered for no other reason than he just doesn't fit what Stearns wants in a player - flexibility. He is the opposite of that. He can really only play 2B against righties.

[jerichoholicninja]

 

 

"Gennett is losing shine"? Where's the evidence of that? Against RHP, he's a career .307/.339/.458 hitter. He had a bad start in 2015 but was the same hitter he was the prior two years after a stint in the minors.

 

Walsh is no sure thing. Need a backup to Villar at SS? You stick Hill at 3B, and have Perez and Walsh as IF backups. Perez has value as a guy who can play all over the IF. There's absolutely no reason either Middlebrooks or Cecchini have to make the team.

 

I don't know maybe having 28XBH in 114games 6HRs 1SB and only 12BBs?

 

By losing his shine I mean what's his upside? Platoon bat 8HRs 2SBs and adequate defense? Shine is over for me. He offers 0 Plus skills anywhere. Just Average or below average. Walsh only had 54XBH 13HRs 17SBs and oh over 100BBs last season batting from both sides of the plate. a near .400OB pct. You're proud of .339 against RHP. The franchise just has better options to play someone with at least a Plus somewhere vs avg/below avg. Walsh's worst OBP in any of the minor with 10games+ played in a season is .313. That would be about the avg. Gennett has given the Brewers the last 2 seasons combined as a platoon type of bat.

Tell me what Shine he presents anymore?

 

He's put up respectable numbers against major league pitchers for 3 years and Walsh has not had one day in the bigs. I looked it up for a post a few months ago and I can't remember the exact numbers but Scooters career OPS against RHP would have been top 5 OPS among all 2B the last two seasons. And when you face RHP 75% of the time there's great value in a player like that.

 

Scooter has actually turned out to be exactly what he was projected to be: average defense, high batting average, adequate obp, but with more power than people thought. I was a Scooter-hater when he was coming up and expected him to be a massive failure but he's proven me wrong and I'm more than content to riding with him until he's a free agent.