Segura to DBacks [RHP Tyler Wagner also included; return is $5.5M, 2B Aaron Hill, RHP Chase Anderson, & SS/2B Isan Diaz]

[MrTPlush]

This is getting pretty off topic but...

 

In 2014(which I think is the real Gennett long term) he was rated the #15 2B and Rickie Weeks was #21 out of #42 players with 250 plate appearances. They combined for a 2.8 WAR which in my opinion is a pretty solid coming out of second. Yah middle of the pack isn't that exciting, but anyone wish we had a middle of the pack SS in 2011? I sure do.

 

If we have a really solid utility guy that can play second base days we face lefties a platoon at 2nd base is pretty solid moving forward since it would minimize the need for taking up two roster spots for a platoon. Just for reference Howie Kendrick who averages a similar WAR over his career, only 1 WAR last year, and is turning 33 just got 2/$30. Sure it would be great to have one player go put up a solid 3 WAR by himself, but those are very rare at 2B these days. Only 7 players managed to do that in 2015.

[Eye Black]

I guess someone finally beat the Braves to the punch on one of these trades. A little curious because on his MLB Network appearance yesterday Stearns mentioned he had been working on the deal with the Dbacks since November.

 

SOURCE: The Braves “worked hard” to try to find a way to acquire infield prospect Isan Diaz from the Diamondbacks prior to his inclusion in the trade that allowed the D-backs to shed much of Aaron Hill’s salary, tweets MLB Network’s Peter Gammons. Per Gammons, the Braves appeared to have a similar idea to the Brewers (who acquired Diaz, Chase Anderson and much of Aaron Hill’s contract in exchange for Jean Segura and Tyler Wagner). Gammons notes that the Braves were trying to “alleviate [the] D-backs’ cash issues,” but a deal was never reached.

[markedman5]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/jean-segura-arizona-diamondbacks-milwaukee-brewers-trade-shortstop-death-son-fresh-start-020216

[pacopete4]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/jean-segura-arizona-diamondbacks-milwaukee-brewers-trade-shortstop-death-son-fresh-start-020216

 

 

Sounds like a laundry list of excuses for underperforming for 2.5 years. Sad about his child but the rest of it, well they are excuses. Perform and you'd get your payday.

[brewtank34]

Dude turned down $40 mil. End of story.

[beekay414]

Segura and Wagner aren't really losses at all in my book. Segura is replacement level and isn't really that great of a defender (definitely not good enough to move Nick Ahmed off of SS like Stewart is planning...stupid). Wagner is, at best, Chase Anderson. Isan Diaz is the prize here. Kid has tremendous potential. Hill is a stopgap 3B option and Anderson is an innings eater with some upside and a ton of team control left despite his age. This is an A+ trade without a doubt. Stearns continues to work his magic.

[3and2Fastball]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/jean-segura-arizona-diamondbacks-milwaukee-brewers-trade-shortstop-death-son-fresh-start-020216

 

 

Sounds like a laundry list of excuses for underperforming for 2.5 years. Sad about his child but the rest of it, well they are excuses. Perform and you'd get your payday.

 

 

 

I am pretty sure it is just speculation by Roenicke (and others) as to why they believe Segura is a bounce back candidate. Segura isn't saying any of that, Roenicke is.....

[splitterpfj]

Segura and Wagner aren't really losses at all in my book. Segura is replacement level and isn't really that great of a defender (definitely not good enough to move Nick Ahmed off of SS like Stewart is planning...stupid). Wagner is, at best, Chase Anderson. Isan Diaz is the prize here. Kid has tremendous potential. Hill is a stopgap 3B option and Anderson is an innings eater with some upside and a ton of team control left despite his age. This is an A+ trade without a doubt. Stearns continues to work his magic.

 

 

This is almost exactly how I see it. I like Wagner, but the Brewers have more like him, and I have nothing against Segura, but he simply hasn't been a big deal.

 

Whatever becomes of Anderson, this deal is all about some cash for Diaz - with the payroll way down, and the need for young talent, there's no reason to say no to this.

 

Atlanta pulled a ton of young talent out of SD and AZ last winter, with some more from Houston - look at the kids the Brewers have pulled from those same places.

 

Toronto shipped out a lot of kids last season, maybe call them next? Find the teams with that exact opposite mindset, and ask for everybody until you get a deal.

[MrTPlush]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/jean-segura-arizona-diamondbacks-milwaukee-brewers-trade-shortstop-death-son-fresh-start-020216

 

 

Sounds like a laundry list of excuses for underperforming for 2.5 years. Sad about his child but the rest of it, well they are excuses. Perform and you'd get your payday.

 

All I could think is wow if you need all this little excuses for why someone was completely awful for 2.5 years they will never turn it around. I hope no Arizona fans read that and get false hope.

 

Maybe he should just retire and focus on life. Sounds like he can't handle squat the way Reonicke talks.

[jerichoholicninja]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/jean-segura-arizona-diamondbacks-milwaukee-brewers-trade-shortstop-death-son-fresh-start-020216

 

 

Sounds like a laundry list of excuses for underperforming for 2.5 years. Sad about his child but the rest of it, well they are excuses. Perform and you'd get your payday.

 

All I could think is wow if you need all this little excuses for why someone was completely awful for 2.5 years they will never turn it around. I hope no Arizona fans read that and get false hope.

 

Maybe he should just retire and focus on life. Sounds like he can't handle squat the way Reonicke talks.

 

Ron is kind of a clueless idiot so I don't put any stock into what he has to say. The whole article to me felt like Ken was trying to blame the Brewers for low-balling Jean and ruining his career. Segura is what he is and, outside of 2 months of his major league career, the numbers back it up.

[QuevedosTongue]

 

 

Sounds like a laundry list of excuses for underperforming for 2.5 years. Sad about his child but the rest of it, well they are excuses. Perform and you'd get your payday.

 

All I could think is wow if you need all this little excuses for why someone was completely awful for 2.5 years they will never turn it around. I hope no Arizona fans read that and get false hope.

 

Maybe he should just retire and focus on life. Sounds like he can't handle squat the way Reonicke talks.

 

Ron is kind of a clueless idiot so I don't put any stock into what he has to say. The whole article to me felt like Ken was trying to blame the Brewers for low-balling Jean and ruining his career. Segura is what he is and, outside of 2 months of his major league career, the numbers back it up.

 

First, I'm not trying to make excuses for Segura, but.........

 

Next time one of you has a child die, feels disrespected at work, gets hit in the face with a flying bat, etc. I want to hear you wake up and tell me that everything is great and if you are not as good at life in general as you had been, well those little mishaps are just excuses.

 

I don't know if Segura will be any better this year than 2015, but don't minimize that stuff or categorize these things as "excuses." They are real and they effect everyone differently. If you want to say that you just don't think Segura is that talented, fine (I'm there). But to suggest he could be really good but didn't have the 'mental toughness' to handle the adversity and play through it is ridiculous.

[JohnBriggs12]

I like this deal not just because of Diaz. Hill looked like he was done in Toronto in 2011, then he rebounded with 2 very good seasons in Arizona. His BABIP last year was .256. If he can come close to his career mark of .288 BABIP, he can still be productive. At 34, assuming he's healthy, there's no reason he can't post respectable numbers. He's certainly more accomplished than any current infielder on the Brewer roster and they have a huge opening at 3B. If he fails, no big deal. If he hits, you now have a veteran with moveable contract who can play several infield positions that could be moved at the deadline.

 

As for Anderson, what's not to like with the price of pitching on the FA market? You are basically getting a guy who's mid career but still pre-arby who's likely to be able to match what Garza is capable of assuming he rebounds (a big assumption). For that reason, they could just jettison Garza and not have to spend any significant dollars on his replacement or trust his spot to a raw rookie.

[pacopete4]

First, I'm not trying to make excuses for Segura, but.........

 

Next time one of you has a child die, feels disrespected at work, gets hit in the face with a flying bat, etc. I want to hear you wake up and tell me that everything is great and if you are not as good at life in general as you had been, well those little mishaps are just excuses.

 

I don't know if Segura will be any better this year than 2015, but don't minimize that stuff or categorize these things as "excuses." They are real and they effect everyone differently. If you want to say that you just don't think Segura is that talented, fine (I'm there). But to suggest he could be really good but didn't have the 'mental toughness' to handle the adversity and play through it is ridiculous.

 

 

Another sensitive person I see. They are excuses as to why he is a replacement level player. None of us are accusing the man of being weak-minded. I am saying all of those things that RR threw out there are excuses FROM RON HIMSELF as to why Segura has stunk. I never once mentioned Segura as to saying them himself nor was stating that he should just "play through them." I am just saying that they are all just excuses to think there is more to Jean Segura than being a replacement level player.

[jerichoholicninja]

First, I'm not trying to make excuses for Segura, but.........

 

Next time one of you has a child die, feels disrespected at work, gets hit in the face with a flying bat, etc. I want to hear you wake up and tell me that everything is great and if you are not as good at life in general as you had been, well those little mishaps are just excuses.

 

I don't know if Segura will be any better this year than 2015, but don't minimize that stuff or categorize these things as "excuses." They are real and they effect everyone differently. If you want to say that you just don't think Segura is that talented, fine (I'm there). But to suggest he could be really good but didn't have the 'mental toughness' to handle the adversity and play through it is ridiculous.

 

I am in no way saying he isn't "mentally tough", I'm saying he's a bad hitter. And it doesn't matter why he's a bad hitter. Be it because of his child, or Braun's bat, or feeling slighted by the offer, or because he's just a really bad hitter, it doesn't matter because his results were terrible and results are all that matters.

[MrTPlush]

But to suggest he could be really good but didn't have the 'mental toughness' to handle the adversity and play through it is ridiculous.

 

That is what the article is trying to infer though. That is what I am getting at. Clearly he didn't have the mental toughness because he turned into a horrible player with the bat. I also don't believe he felt stiffed when he got that contract extension. If he did I am sorry, but he was poorly advised. After the second half of the season he had that was a pretty good offer. Actually anyone knowing anything about him or advanced metrics knew he was no where near those first half numbers.

 

Bottom line I don't agree with the article and too believe he just isn't good. However, what I was saying in my prior post was that if all those issues were truly the case for his struggles he is never going to turn it around. As a pro sports player you are going to make financial mistakes, like everyone you will deal with tragedy, and you will deal with injuries.

[adambr2]

If you're going to get a contract based on a tiny sample size, you're going to get lowballed. The team gets a market friendly contract for taking a big chance on an unproven player, and the player gets taken care of for life. Regardless of how Segura may or may not feel about his comparison at that time to his peers, $40M is enough for him and his family to live off for the rest of his life.

 

He chose to pass that up and bet on his abilities, now he's got to deal with the consequences of that, being that his value has plummeted since then. Just the way it is. Sometimes it works out the opposite, like it did with Lucroy.

[TooLiveBrew]

First, I'm not trying to make excuses for Segura, but.........

 

Next time one of you has a child die, feels disrespected at work, gets hit in the face with a flying bat, etc. I want to hear you wake up and tell me that everything is great and if you are not as good at life in general as you had been, well those little mishaps are just excuses.

 

I don't know if Segura will be any better this year than 2015, but don't minimize that stuff or categorize these things as "excuses." They are real and they effect everyone differently. If you want to say that you just don't think Segura is that talented, fine (I'm there). But to suggest he could be really good but didn't have the 'mental toughness' to handle the adversity and play through it is ridiculous.

 

 

Another sensitive person I see. They are excuses as to why he is a replacement level player. None of us are accusing the man of being weak-minded. I am saying all of those things that RR threw out there are excuses FROM RON HIMSELF as to why Segura has stunk. I never once mentioned Segura as to saying them himself nor was stating that he should just "play through them." I am just saying that they are all just excuses to think there is more to Jean Segura than being a replacement level player.

The reality here is that the truth is probably in the middle, & there's no excuse to be rude to another poster.

[gregmag]

Sorry if somebody posted this already -- I've lost track -- but here's a really good, long analysis of the trade from a D'Backs blog:

 

http://insidethezona.com/2016/02/cashing-out-chase-anderson-literally/

[Boomer5]

Sorry if somebody posted this already -- I've lost track -- but here's a really good, long analysis of the trade from a D'Backs blog:

 

http://insidethezona.com/2016/02/cashing-out-chase-anderson-literally/

 

Thats a really good article, great find.

[MadScientist]

With all that's gone on, I really think the change of scenery will help Segura. I don't think he'll see anything like the start of 2013 again without a full change in approach, but a bump in performance is a real possibility. If he gets his OPS up close to .700, he'll be pretty valuable.

[CheezWizHed]

Sorry if somebody posted this already -- I've lost track -- but here's a really good, long analysis of the trade from a D'Backs blog:

 

http://insidethezona.com/2016/02/cashing-out-chase-anderson-literally/

 

Thats a really good article, great find.

 

He makes a good point, but his writing style gave me a headache. Its like a beagle chasing a herd of rabbits.

[QuevedosTongue]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/aaron-hill-on-board-with-brewers-rebuild-b99665957z1-368065631.html

 

Link to JSOnline article on Aaron Hill. He is allegedly a 'good clubhouse guy' (I assume because he has no discernible baseball skills anymore) and is quoted as liking Craig Counsell 'because he played the game the right way.' He's now my least favorite Brewer.

[FVBrewerFan]

I will bet my house Hill will be described as a "gritty veteran" by the end of March.

[Point Beer Is Best]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/aaron-hill-on-board-with-brewers-rebuild-b99665957z1-368065631.html

 

Link to JSOnline article on Aaron Hill. He is allegedly a 'good clubhouse guy' (I assume because he has no discernible baseball skills anymore) and is quoted as liking Craig Counsell 'because he played the game the right way.' He's now my least favorite Brewer.

 

Well, to play devil's advocate, another guy who would probably like Craig Counsell "because he played the game the right way" would be Jonathan Papelbon, who came dangerously close to being our closer last offseason. And he is very much NOT a good clubhouse guy. I hope that Hill will be a positive influence, and not someone who's going to tell guys to tone down their antics.

 

I still have no idea what the "right way to play the game" mean, but a common interpretation is that it's the "white way to play the game." I hope that's not what Hill is referring to.

 

I also like his quote, which is a stark contrast from Lucroy's view:

 

As for being dealt from contender to rebuilder, Hill said, "You don't have any control over that. Any player who is competitive will tell you they want to win. But just because a team is rebuilding doesn't mean you can't compete. You never know what's going to happen.

[CheezWizHed]

Has Counsell ever uttered the words "gritty"? Or are we stuck on Ned Yost re-runs?

 

I also like his quote, which is a stark contrast from Lucroy's view:

 

As for being dealt from contender to rebuilder, Hill said, "You don't have any control over that. Any player who is competitive will tell you they want to win. But just because a team is rebuilding doesn't mean you can't compete. You never know what's going to happen.

 

There is a big difference in a star catcher in his prime and a back-up infielder that is happy to have a job (for now).