Will MLB Elect to have the NL Adopt DH for 2017 Season?

[brewcrewdue80]

Why not give NL teams a 26th man and require the DH to be a Rule 5pickup. And then allow teams to decide if you're going to bat the pitcher or use that Rule 5 in the game.

Madison Bumgarner has 9Hrs in past 2 seasons in 159PAs. You're taking that away from being displayed.

 

Personally, if you could just give a team 2 free Pinch hitter PA...by 1 player set in the lineup to use it would leave strategy for when to use. Say it's 2nd inning bases loaded you'd that PH. Or it could be 2nd inning no one on and 1 or 2outs, you let the pitcher bat and save your 2 Pinch hitters for later.

Say last season Jason Rogers was used as PH quite often. You'd have your SP in the 9th slot with a slash/Jason Rogers meaning Rogers will bat in the Pitchers place to be used twice in the game. As well as any extra inning ABs if need be. Because you'd like the game to end vs. a 2on 2out RP left to bat situation.

 

That designation gives the opposing team the ability to know who's to be the PH and be prepared more for such.

 

What would be interesting is that leaves the situation runners on 1b/2b 0outs. Do you have SP bunt? Or the PH bat? Just something to keep the NL in-game decisions more intriquing.

Say you use your SP for the first 2 PAs of the game. Now you likely have the PH for the Pitcher spot for late innings. Nowadays if the Pitcher spot is due up in the next inning, you wouldn't bring in your closer or setup man in the 8th or 7th IP to get the last out, because you'd have to bat him the following inning. You saved the 2nd PH and now bring out your closer knowing you can have him pitch the next 4outs without having to substitute him the following inning.

You just don't have that in the AL. How many times did Mariano Rivera pitch 4out saves? Aside from Interleague away games Yanks never had to worry whether if Rivera would come to the plate in the 9th inning.

 

I love it when a pitcher comes up big in a hitting moment. Who's going to Forget Gallardo's Game winning PH a couple years back?

There's also the game where I believe hit a 2run HR and allowed only 1run for a win. A DH will never lay claim to doing that. He's never taking the mound, and usually the DH is highly regarded as a poor defender. The bat is the only reason he's on the team. So you have this Pitcher who defends in the field of play and wins games maybe with his bat. It's so much more special to admire that player.

[Lee16]

In the end, the NL is going to end up with the DH, I think that is clear at this point. I would like to see the NL stick with the pitcher hitting though, for a couple reasons. First, I like a difference between the leagues. It isn't game breaking, but it's unique enough where fans of an AL team might take a trip to an NL park during interleague to see their pitchers hit, it's a novelty, and no other major sport has it. There is no difference between the AFC/NFC, Eastern/Western Conference. I like that baseball is unique.

 

Secondly, MLB managers really don't do much of anything during a game compared to the other sports. Sure, maybe you adjust OF depth, guard the lines, play hit and run, but there really isn't a whole lot they can do to affect the game after the line up card is submitted, I like the extra strategy involved.

 

But that's just me, I have resigned myself that we'll all have the DH fairly soon.

[DuWayne Steurer]

As a side note, the Brewers should hold on to Khris Davis until the vote comes through. If the NL does get the DH, his value goes up quite a bit.

davis has two minor league options remaining. domingo santana has one minor league option remaining. if davis is kept optioned for most of the 2016 season, any major league club (including the brewers) would have an extra year of control of the player. that's an increase in value for any club.

 

is it fair to davis to bury him in the minor leagues? probably not, but it may be in the brewers' best interests to do so.

 

 

I'm going to just go with "umm........no" on this one.

[jerichoholicninja]

When ever they go that way I hope they give at least two or three full seasons and offseasons lead time before making the change. NL teams are going to have to make adjustments to their whole organizations. Imagine being Theo Epstein and trading Schwarber this current offseason or regular season and then MLB says the NL has the DH next year. I'd be pretty upset if I were him.

[3and2Fastball]

It is inevitable but it is sad for me to see. I love the strategy of the NL game.

 

I can understand the concern of keeping the extreme investments that teams make in Pitchers safer (healthier) by not having Pitchers hit. I can understand wanting to make the leagues equal. I can understand wanting to create more offense which appeals to the casual fan, I just think it makes for worse Baseball for the purist like myself.

 

Personally, I'd do away with the DH in the AL, in order to make the leagues equal. But nobody is asking me.

 

My concern is what is next? Designated fielders? Will teams be able to put an Andrleton Simmons at Shortstop but not have him hit? Expanded rosters where each team can have 16-17 pitchers each taking an inning or two each?

 

edited the underlined word above

[dlk9s]

My concern is what is next? Designated fielders? Will teams be able to put an Andrleton Simmons at Shortstop but not have him pitch? Expanded rosters where each team can have 16-17 pitchers each taking an inning or two each?

 

IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE!

[dlk9s]

I'm still a little bitter than my HS coach DH'ed for me once I was on the varsity team. I was a .500 hitter in JV, for crying out loud. My crime was that I couldn't hit homers.

 

My senior year, we were winning a game by a ton and the coach let the non-hitting pitchers pinch hit. After two years with no batting practice, I lined a single to right and ended my varsity career with a 1.000 BA. PRACTICE? WE'RE TALKIN' 'BOUT PRACTICE?

[owbc]

I refuse to reluctantly accept this, I think it will be a major loss to the uniqueness of baseball and accomplish nothing of value except to make the game less interesting. If the goal is to increase offense, lowering the pitching mound is the most obvious solution and it's amazing that it hasn't been done yet because of the potential to reduce injuries. The DH does nothing to reduce strikeouts. The DH does nothing to reduce the impact of overly dominant relief pitching.

 

Plus, who are these DH hitters going to be? Probably near-replacement level .600 OPS fill-ins. It's not like there are amazing hitters just waiting to play MLB if only the NL would allow the DH. At least pitchers have an excuse for being awful hitters.

[nate82]

I refuse to reluctantly accept this, I think it will be a major loss to the uniqueness of baseball and accomplish nothing of value except to make the game less interesting. If the goal is to increase offense, lowering the pitching mound is the most obvious solution and it's amazing that it hasn't been done yet because of the potential to reduce injuries. The DH does nothing to reduce strikeouts. The DH does nothing to reduce the impact of overly dominant relief pitching.

 

Plus, who are these DH hitters going to be? Probably near-replacement level .600 OPS fill-ins. It's not like there are amazing hitters just waiting to play MLB if only the NL would allow the DH. At least pitchers have an excuse for being awful hitters.

 

I think you could attach the DH at least in the NL to the starting pitcher. Once the starting pitcher is removed from the game (other than by injury) the DH then goes away. This would still have an impact on the strategy of the game in the NL at least.

 

I think you would see more Pedro Alvarez's of the world getting DH spots and veteran players staying around a little longer in the NL especially ones where their defense has completely collapsed but still hit for a decent amount. I doubt teams would employ .600 OPS fill-ins.

 

The Brewers for example would have Khris Davis or Santana to play the DH spot along with Carter and Braun to fill in at times. These players just like in the AL are going to be high slugging players.

[Ennder]

Pitcher do not get enough AB to keep them hitting anymore. Hitting is one of the hardest things to do in any sport and asking someone to do it when get get 3 AB a week and limited batting practice just isn't realistic anymore. Back when pitchers pitched complete games and they had 4 man rotations it made a lot more sense.

 

As others have said, the way the schedule is now they have to get the leagues o. The same ruleset one way or the other.

[gregmag]

I like the DH. I don't think there's a slippery slope problem. The worst offensive position other than pitcher at any given moment (they change, which underscores the point) is always far closer to the best offensive position than to pitchers. Pitchers, as a group, specialize in and contribute to run prevention far more than any other players. Pitchers, as a group, can't hit, and this has been true for decades.

 

I don't buy the "increased strategy" argument. Bill James made this point a long time ago: Having pitchers hit doesn't increase the strategic intrigue of the game. It diminishes what managers can do and thus prompts some very predictable button pushing. "Gee, do I let the pitcher with the .350 OPS try to drive in those runners in the 7th inning, or do I use one of my competent hitters and then bring in one of my eight relief pitchers?" I just don't find that kind of strategic drama entertaining.

 

The best argument, I think, for letting pitchers hit in the NL is the idea that the leagues should be distinct and different. It's fun to have two different variations on baseball to watch, even if the team I follow works under the variation I don't like. The problem, though, is that this train left the station a long time ago. Interleague play and league jumping have pretty much trashed the boundary between the leagues. Eliminating the DH in the NL is just the next logical step.

 

I think jerichoholicninja makes a great point about transition time. You can't just spring this on the league in one offseason. I assume there would be some transition time.

[Polish Falcons]

Manfred quotes below suggest that this isn't nearly the done deal some are suggesting. I hope DH stays out of the NL.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/01/manfred-on-international-draft-expansion-dh-cba.html

 

Manfred said “The most likely result on the designated hitter for the foreseeable future is the status quo,” he told Crasnick. “I know [Cardinals general manager] John Mozeliak talked about it, and when you have any National League club talking about it, it’s interesting. But I think the vast majority of clubs in the National League want to stay where they are.”

[JohnBriggs12]

With the strikeout rate among position players at an all time high and pitchers struggling more than ever hitting, it's only a matter of time. Pitching is dominating the game now. I think we could see a DH in the NL as soon as 2017, certainly by 2020. Players union wants it. More and more NL owners are going to see it's not worth the risk having high priced pitchers hitting.

[Oxy]

If we are trying to increase offense AND speed up the game, I'd rather see them implement a rule that says all pitchers who enter the game have to finish an inning. No more of this ROOGY/LOOGY stuff, unless it's the last out of the inning.

[JohnBriggs12]

If we are trying to increase offense AND speed up the game, I'd rather see them implement a rule that says all pitchers who enter the game have to finish an inning. No more of this ROOGY/LOOGY stuff, unless it's the last out of the inning.

 

That would be more offensive to baseball purists than the DH. Maybe they should ban pitchers from throwing faster than 96 mph (anything over 96 would be a ball). What's killing the game are all these relievers who can come in for an inning and throw upper 90's heat. Maybe teams could designate one "hard throwing" reliever who would be exempt. Think of the strategy involved with deciding when to use your designated hard thrower?

[1992casey]

Leaving a pitcher in when he can't get any outs is likely to slow the game more than a pitching change or two.

[Invader3K]

Pitcher do not get enough AB to keep them hitting anymore. Hitting is one of the hardest things to do in any sport and asking someone to do it when get get 3 AB a week and limited batting practice just isn't realistic anymore. Back when pitchers pitched complete games and they had 4 man rotations it made a lot more sense.

 

As others have said, the way the schedule is now they have to get the leagues o. The same ruleset one way or the other.

 

I agree with this reasoning. The game has become so specialized nowadays, that I don't think it makes sense to have pitchers pretending they can hit anymore. Most of them can't. I don't find it entertaining to watch, personally.

[Polish Falcons]

If we are trying to increase offense AND speed up the game, I'd rather see them implement a rule that says all pitchers who enter the game have to finish an inning. No more of this ROOGY/LOOGY stuff, unless it's the last out of the inning.

 

I am a big fan of this idea, or some form of rule to limit the loogy/roogy. I would adjust to say that a reliever has to finish the inning OR face a minimum of 3 batters in the inning (or 4). This way a manager can pull a relief pitcher who is having a bad day, but not after facing just one or two batters.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I'm guessing Baseball would want some concessions for implementing the DH, replacing a bullpen arm with a higher paying DH spot, yes yes from the union.

 

Maybe the owners get smart and get rid of the Super 2 rule and for god sakes implement an international draft, a lot of people have to be pissed about those players getting millions and millions of dollars and US amateur draft are capped at much lower numbers.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think dictating when and how often a manager is allowed to change pitchers is a really bad idea.

 

On the other hand, I'm not terribly against the idea of the NL adopting the DH. I used to abhor the idea. But as I've seen pointed out on other forums and discussions, the strategy argument doesn't really hold as much water as it used to. The game is so specialized and quantified now that every decision is made before it happens anyways. Every manager manages by the book. There's no actual strategy involved in doing what "The Book" dictates that 29 other managers would do in 95% of all situations anyways.

[MadScientist]

If we are trying to increase offense AND speed up the game, I'd rather see them implement a rule that says all pitchers who enter the game have to finish an inning. No more of this ROOGY/LOOGY stuff, unless it's the last out of the inning.

 

That would be more offensive to baseball purists than the DH. Maybe they should ban pitchers from throwing faster than 96 mph (anything over 96 would be a ball). What's killing the game are all these relievers who can come in for an inning and throw upper 90's heat. Maybe teams could designate one "hard throwing" reliever who would be exempt. Think of the strategy involved with deciding when to use your designated hard thrower?

 

I can't see something along this line being offensive to purists. LOOGY/ROOGY garbage is a modern invention, and is less enjoyable to watch than Ben Sheets batting. End of inning or 3 batters minimum (whichever comes first) would be a very welcome change.

[jerichoholicninja]

If we are trying to increase offense AND speed up the game, I'd rather see them implement a rule that says all pitchers who enter the game have to finish an inning. No more of this ROOGY/LOOGY stuff, unless it's the last out of the inning.

 

That would be more offensive to baseball purists than the DH. Maybe they should ban pitchers from throwing faster than 96 mph (anything over 96 would be a ball). What's killing the game are all these relievers who can come in for an inning and throw upper 90's heat. Maybe teams could designate one "hard throwing" reliever who would be exempt. Think of the strategy involved with deciding when to use your designated hard thrower?

 

I can't see something along this line being offensive to purists. LOOGY/ROOGY garbage is a modern invention, and is less enjoyable to watch than Ben Sheets batting. End of inning or 3 batters minimum (whichever comes first) would be a very welcome change.

 

Just having pitchers stay in the game until an out happens would be best. It's not a totally radical change and it doesn't eliminate the ROOGY/LOOGY strategy but will limit pitching changes because that ROOGY/LOOGY doesn't always get an out and if he doesn't he's probably going to face a batter he shouldn't be and will make managers think twice about bringing in the specialist in the first place.

[FVBrewerFan]

First, yes, MLB will put DH in place in the NL. I'm shocked it hasn't happened sooner.

 

I'm against it, I don't like a DH in the AL either. I enjoy the strategy involved, it's a big part of the game for me. For that matter, I don't like the talk about limiting LOOGY/ROOGY role either for the same reason. I don't care how long a game takes, baseball has never been a game on the clock.

 

Personally, I think all they need to do is move up the start time a half hour so games end sooner. Get out by 10:00 on a week night, and it changes perceptions.

[zurch1818]

I know it will never happen because of valuable commercial time, but I would be a fan of completely eliminating warmup tosses if more than one pitching change happens in the same half inning. It's not like they haven't had a chance to throw in the bullpen.

 

Doing so would essentially mimic the hockey on-the-fly line change. If you are unaware, even if a goalie change happens, they still have to come in cold with no warmups at all.

[jerichoholicninja]

I know it will never happen because of valuable commercial time, but I would be a fan of completely eliminating warmup tosses if more than one pitching change happens in the same half inning. It's not like they haven't had a chance to throw in the bullpen.

 

Doing so would essentially mimic the hockey on-the-fly line change. If you are unaware, even if a goalie change happens, they still have to come in cold with no warmups at all.

 

There is lots of room for time elimination during pitching changes. Pitchers need two pitches tops on the game mound to be ready. Or since we're already using clocks the reliever has 60 seconds from when they leave the bullpen to the first live pitch they throw and they can do whatever they need to do to get ready.