Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - Latest: Upgrades confirmed in San Antonio's Stadium

[tmwiese55]

True, good point. Does anyone want to attend a baseball game when it's 110 degrees consistently in the summer? Minor leagues can't pay for roofs. Obviously I have no idea on the attendance figures out there. I'd guess the mountain ones are normal but you'd think desert locations take a hit because of this.

[pacopete4]

Cedar Rapids Iowa has the single A Twins team but just down the freeway is Iowa City Metro Area (with Coralville/North Liberty). This area of Iowa is the fastest growing area in Iowa. That includes Des Moines. (The Iowa City metro's population grew to 164,357 by July 2014, up 11,771 people during that time period for a 7.7 percent increase, according to the bureau. On average, metro areas saw their population grow at a 3.9 percent rate between April 2010 and July 2014, according to the bureau.)

 

The Brewers should find someone or some business in this area to build a minor league stadium and move their team to Iowa. Close to Milwaukee and would continue the boom of the area I am living at currently. Right now they are in the process of building an entertainment center/hockey arena in a newly developed area. People love their baseball here. Even if it is mostly Cubs/Cards fans.

[patrickgpe]

Brew4U i know they aren't moving within say 3 hours because it would hurt attendance. You are correct though, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Southern Illionois is perfect for them. Very easy to bring up prospects, possible brewer fans to drive there or a weekend, etc. They have had 2 years to figure out a solution (buying a team like the dodgers model, and haven't, so they will be stuck with a bunch of elite prospects in a horrible environment for 2 more years and then have the rug pulled out from them by the astros, just like in 2014. I really do hope that they use these 2 years to figure out a long term and good solution.

 

For a team whos mission statement is to draft and develop the best and controllable minor league talent, its not ideal to have them in the worst possible enviroment at the tripe A level.

[TheCrew07]

Cedar Rapids Iowa has the single A Twins team but just down the freeway is Iowa City Metro Area (with Coralville/North Liberty). This area of Iowa is the fastest growing area in Iowa. That includes Des Moines. (The Iowa City metro's population grew to 164,357 by July 2014, up 11,771 people during that time period for a 7.7 percent increase, according to the bureau. On average, metro areas saw their population grow at a 3.9 percent rate between April 2010 and July 2014, according to the bureau.)

 

The Brewers should find someone or some business in this area to build a minor league stadium and move their team to Iowa. Close to Milwaukee and would continue the boom of the area I am living at currently. Right now they are in the process of building an entertainment center/hockey arena in a newly developed area. People love their baseball here. Even if it is mostly Cubs/Cards fans.

 

That's all well and good but the T-Rats average 3,513 for their home games this season and they have the entire Fox Valley to draw from as they sit in the middle. It's still a business, and as a business they need to make money, so the average attendance needs to a relative certainty to be attractive to ownership. It's difficult to say how well a team would be supported as I've never lived down there and don't know the community but to average 6,000-7,000 fans for minor league baseball takes a rather large population base to draw from, or an inordinately high level of support such as the Dayton Dragons who outdraw many AAA clubs as a single A club. It's pretty unrealistic to expect 5% of the population to be in the ballpark on a regular basis, but in the right circumstances it can happen.

 

In terms of the IL and average attendance, populations are for the entire metro:

 

Charlotte - 8,927 - pop 2,380,314

Indianapolis - 8,902 - pop approx 2,000,000

Lehigh Valley (Allentown) - 8,754 pop 821,623 (2010)

Columbus - 8,700 - pop 2,021,632

Buffalo - 7,741 - pop 1,135,509 (2010)

Toledo - 7,584 - pop 651,429 (2010)

Durham - 7,524 - pop 542,710

Louisville - 7,100 - pop 1,269,70

Rochester - 6,176 - pop 1,100,000 (2010)

Pawtucket - 5,996 - pop 1,622,520

Scranton - 5,867 - pop 563,631 (2010)

Norfolk - 5,276 - pop 1,700,000

Syracuse - 4,103 - pop 662,577

Gwinnett - 3,321 - pop 1,010,000

 

As an FYI:

Madison - 641,385

[tmwiese55]

Quick google found this about Mallards attendance in recent years. Just over 6000 a couple years back.

 

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/writers/todd-milewski/mallards-again-dominate-summer-collegiate-baseball-attendance-rankings/article_4d4684f4-223b-11e4-a1f2-0019bb2963f4.html

 

Also, I was at Appleton last week and I think it was 5K on Friday and 6 on Saturday. And Appleton just bought part ownership in a new Northwoods team in FDL, so they must not be too worried about attendance being killed by it.

[jerichoholicninja]

Trats and most midwest teams are going to have skewed attendance because of April and early May games where it's 30 degrees. I went to an early season Trats game a couple years ago and counted all of 14 people in the stands.

[proudsoftballdad]

Trats and most midwest teams are going to have skewed attendance because of April and early May games where it's 30 degrees. I went to an early season Trats game a couple years ago and counted all of 14 people in the stands.

Total correct I was at an early season game this year the weather was crap if the attendance was 500 you were lucky..

[TheCrew07]

Trats and most midwest teams are going to have skewed attendance because of April and early May games where it's 30 degrees. I went to an early season Trats game a couple years ago and counted all of 14 people in the stands.

 

Obviously, but why would that be any different for Madison? Let's not lose sight of the key here which is the average daily attendance. Major metropolitan areas with good management are drawing 8,000-9000 with poor weather and losing dates to double headers as well, not to the extreme as the far northern teams, but it's not like every AAA team has a great weather situation, Charlotte is probably the best location in all of AAA.

 

Biloxi with a brand new team and beautiful stadium has drawn worse than the T-Rats:

2015 - 2,604

2016 - 2,652

 

It's 1,000+ more fans per game than they were drawing in Huntsville, but isn't great. Jackson has only played 57 home games so far, the fewest in the SL.

 

I'm not sure you can even make the "the first few years will have great attendance" argument because that's not really true in minor league baseball, the local fans usually don't have a connection to the MLB team which has aided the T-Rats and definitely makes a difference for a team like Dayton. You typically have to start from the bottom and build a brand, and that takes time.

 

I think if the Brewers bought into a franchise they could draw 6,000+ on average right away out of Madison, but how would you ever get a stadium out of the city/metro? I remember when the Brewers were sold they had something like $100 million in debt, has that situation improved? Is it worse? I honestly haven't kept up with the financials but the Brewers would have to take on more debt to fund a AAA stadium on their own so I don't even know how feasible that is. People will say they can borrow against the value of the franchise, but without knowing the true financial picture that's difficult to agree with. Moving a team to Madison would probably kill the Mallards, not that I care a great deal about the Northwoods League, but I'm sure that would cause some sort of resistance as well, unless that ownership was brought into the AAA team.

 

I think it's potentially possible to buy a franchise and move it, but no AAA team is moving into a market of less than 500,000 population, and any situation <1,000,000 would have to be special, like with Madison. The majority of AAA teams are in significant markets and for very good reasons which should be self explanatory.

 

The Sky Sox are actually a team to target because of the issues previously discussed in articles in this thread, but there just aren't going to be many opportunities to move a franchise so the Brewers would have to be fully invested in the idea and researching opportunities long before buying in or buying a franchise outright.

 

I'm all for the concept but if you pull out a map and look around major markets in the midwest, almost all already have professional baseball of some sort which complicates matters because you're talking about having to relocate a lesser franchise. You need a team with a poor stadium and poor attendance without a longstanding regional affiliation to a MLB club.

[FVBrewerFan]

Wow, did not realize Biloxi attendance was so bad! And yea, Iowa City is way too small for AAA.

[ZBTMP]

I realize that moving spring training to Florida is unpopular with many for a variety of valid reasons; but with a longterm solution unlikely in Arizona, Id at least be investigating with Orlando the possibility of a dual purpose spring training/AAA home. I realize there is a massive amount of coordination that would have to happen, potential purchase and relocation of existing franchise, maybe switching of leagues of another franchise, and the funding of the project... But it would kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Unfortunately, Florida summers would probably keep attendance down even in the large Orlando metropolitan area.

[1992casey]

I remember when the Brewers were sold they had something like $100 million in debt, has that situation improved? Is it worse?

 

It's just a wild guess, but after reading this year's Forbes stuff, my thought was that the Brewers might be about $50 million in debt. But as Mark Attanasio said earlier this season, some of the Forbes info is fairly accurate and some is pretty far off. Plus, I'm a total amateur at interpreting this stuff, and I could be way off.

 

The big difference, though, is that in 2004, the Brewers had debt over $100 million on a team worth less than $200 million. Now, the team is estimated to be worth close to $900 million. That makes a few tens of millions of dollars of debt much less of a factor.

[tmwiese55]

I think the presumption for Madison would be that the Brewers team would replace the Mallards and use their stadium, which I believe is going through some upgrades this offseason. I don't think many here would have a beef with that, I think they'd actually prefer a legit AAA team. Though going to minor league games isn't really about the game all that much anyway. But still think a connection the Brewers would generally help.

 

Skewing of weather was mentioned. In regards to the Mallards, since it's college kids the games don't start until the end of May I believe. So they don't have those brutal April days bringing down their average.

[TheCrew07]

As MH noted earlier, AAA stadiums have a requirement of a minimum of 11,000 seats, the current seating capacity is less than 7,000 including the grass seating, it's roughly the same size facility as Neuroscience Field which the T-Rats play in. The Mallards have made some nice upgrades to the facility, but it's not remotely close to AAA standards. I couldn't find any additional information on amenities like an indoor batting cage, weight room, training facilities, and so on that would also be necessary for a modern professional franchise either.

 

Assuming Casey is correct, which would be fantastic news, then the Brewers could easily get involved in MiLB and fund their own stadium. As I've said many times I would very much like the Brewers to buy into good situations like the T-Rats and lock in those relationships. Unfortunately the team never showed that kind of initiative in the past, it was the same reactionary approach to affiliations as it was with the rest of the organization.

[tmwiese55]

Was scrolling Yahoo news and randomly saw this:

 

http://www.brewcrewball.com/2016/8/26/12656624/bring-the-brewers-aaa-affiliate-to-verona

[Mass Haas]

Wichita had a long minor league (and college) baseball tradition but couldn't support their AA team, otherwise that would seem like a good geographical fit.

 

It's time, Wichita: Fix Lawrence-Dumont and get a big-league affiliate

 

PHOTOS at the LINK

 

Interesting article, but such a long, long longshot, particularly for AAA, which isn't even a mention here...

[Mass Haas]

My January 23rd, 2014 post --

 

According to the Voice of the Sounds Jeff Hem (and his blog post here), Brewers GM Doug Melvin (and Hunter Morris) will be in attendance at the groundbreaking ceremony for the Sounds’ new ballpark in Sulphur Dell (opening in 2015) this coming Monday the 27th.

 

Now wouldn't that be a great day to also announce an extended partnership between the Sounds and Brewers beyond the 2014 season?

 

I mean, the Sounds wouldn't invite Doug and then later on, not extend, right? That'd be a tough way to (not) thank Melvin and the Brewers for their patience in this process.

 

Here's hoping there's a formal (yet silent) basis for an extension in place.

 

We also linked that week to the video of that event in which Doug Melvin spoke as well. Unfortunately, the video link is no longer valid.

 

***

 

From Friday's Link report:

 

By the way, Nashville Sounds ownership got what they were looking for in Year 2 of the Brewers break-up; A's give them 78-56 & an early playoff clinch.

 

Oh, and it was the Sounds' first playoff clinch since 2007. That was the year Ryan Braun played 34 games there before his callup.

 

2007 Nashville Sounds stats

 

It's why the Brewers are with the Sky Sox now, folks.

[JDBrewCrew]

So Lehigh Valley and Toledo are the only other remaining alternatives?

[patrickgpe]

So Lehigh Valley and Toledo are the only other remaining alternatives?

vegas extended with the mets today, so yes you are correct.

[patrickgpe]

even though i am fully expecting that the brewers are stuck with CS for another 2 years, does anyone know can the brewers start negotiating with Toledo and Lehigh Valley on Monday once the minor league season is over, or is there a date that all of the PDCs expire?

[ZBTMP]

Toledo hasn't had a winning season since '09 and the Tigers farm system is still poor. I'd say there is at least a 1% chance here.

 

While Mud Hens general manager Erik Ibsen would not confirm the renewal — “There obviously has been discussions,” he said — his words made it clear Toledo values its affiliation with the Tigers.

 

“We have a fantastic relationship with Detroit from the top on down,” Ibsen said. “The field staff we have here this season is outstanding.”

LINK

[JDBrewCrew]

IronPigs ‏@IronPigs 2m2 minutes ago

OFFICIAL RELEASE: IronPigs and Phillies renew affiliation thru at least 2020 season II http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20160906&content_id=199849252&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_t1410&sid=t1410 …

[brewmann04]

hello Colorado springs

[patrickgpe]

the brewers and or skysox had to inform mlb that they wish to seek new affiliation by last sunday the 11th

 

i think the 3 open spots right now are tacoma, CS, and toledo.

 

i'm wondering if there is atleast some internal discussion in Toledo about dumping the home town team for the top system in MLB, because there was no point to not renew like most of the other teams have done before the 11th.

 

Still not expecting it, but with every day that passes, i get more hopeful.

 

by the way the brewers announced their new affiliate 2 years ago on september 18th, so we could know this week.

[Mass Haas]

Major delays here, if it happens at all --

 

Plan for Triple-A baseball in San Antonio shelved

 

What this basically does is eliminate a clear path for the Brewers to grab a site in let's say, Fresno, in 2019.

 

Without some other organization's AAA relationship crumbling in the next two years, it's Colorado Springs for as far as one can envision right now.

[AKCheesehead]

Here's an article that shows what I would love seeing as the solution: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/07/17/minor-league-baseballs-most-valuable-teams/#21e6021b9630 It could become a great investment for Mark A and his associates, in furthering the value of the Brewers franchise.

 

I don't claim to be an expert on the business end of baseball. Why don't the Brewers start their own AAA club?