Latest in Sky Sox affiliation saga - Latest: Upgrades confirmed in San Antonio's Stadium

[adambr2]

Here's an article that shows what I would love seeing as the solution: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/07/17/minor-league-baseballs-most-valuable-teams/#21e6021b9630 It could become a great investment for Mark A and his associates, in furthering the value of the Brewers franchise.

 

I don't claim to be an expert on the business end of baseball. Why don't the Brewers start their own AAA club?

 

I would love this solution, it makes perfect sense as far as I'm concerned to the point of wondering, 'Why the hell don't we do this and get out of Colorado Springs already??'

 

But I won't pretend to know or understand the logistics involved.

[Mass Haas]

It's a total longshot, but the Tigers have been just dreadful at the AAA level for nearly a decade now. Of course the Tigers want to stay given the convenient 29-year local partnership, but if somehow Gord Ash and the Brewers could point out their #1 rated farm system, an invite to Toledo and the International League would be spectacular, and there may not be a better time to seize the opportunity.

 

There's no real hint of that, but the lack of a Tigers-Mud Hens renewal two weeks shy of the deadline reminds us of the Lloyd Christmas "so you're saying there's a chance" line. It'd be Christmas indeed!

 

Mud Hens' season a string of failures

 

Toledo’s baseball team continued its recent string of failures, suffering a seventh straight losing season while missing the Governors’ Cup playoffs for the ninth year in a row.

 

Other negative aspects of play on the field are highlighted in that article, but no direct comments from Mud Hen management.

 

Just a one-hour drive between Detroit and Toledo, five and a half hours between Milwaukee and Toledo.

 

Please read this July 22nd column from David Briggs of the Toledo Blade. It will open your eyes.

 

Mud Hens don’t get benefits in marriage

 

30th anniversary coming up? Heck, these days marriages do end after 29 years. Well, I'll be married 29 years this month, and my wife and I are renewing our Player Development Contract, but that's besides the point .

 

From the column you just read --

 

The Tigers are no longer good parents.

 

An organization that shops on Madison Avenue for its major league talent too often combs the clearance rack to fill out its minor league rosters.

 

Take their lack of a Triple-A taxi squad, a common and effective practice in which teams stash a couple of veterans on the rosters of their short-season Class A affiliates. Or their reluctance to make a small investment in better minor league free agents.

 

If you have followed our Brewerfan minor league transaction thread, you'll know that perhaps no other organization takes advantage of carrying extra players at the higher levels of the system than Milwaukee. With very liberal use of the Helena Rookie paper roster prior to mid-June, and then the Temporary Inactive List later in the season, the Brewers constantly rotate a larger flexible AAA and AA roster.

 

The Brewers can point Toledo management to multiple audio interviews and articles talking about this year's amazingly positive AAA clubhouse atmosphere, and if Milwaukee hasn't done so already, re-signing Tim Dillard to a 2017 AAA deal and pointing Toledo fans to his Twitter account would be a fantastic selling point.

 

We read during the offseason that in his new role as "Vice President - Baseball Projects", Gord Ash would be tasked with working on finding a new home for the Crew at the AAA level.

 

Hopefully Gord has put together every imaginable PowerPoint presentation, the very-best George Costanza Penske File-type accordion binder full of selling points, and found his way to formal meetings in Toledo during this open shopping period.

 

No disrespect to the fine folks behind the scenes at Colorado Springs, it's absolutely nothing personal, but no win in 2016 for the Brewers would be bigger than this one.

 

Make it happen Gord! Shock the world!

[Mass Haas]

By the way, this August 28th article puts a damper on things, but doesn't completely shut the door --

 

Mud Hens-Tigers relationship likely to be extended

 

The Mud Hens are one of five Triple-A teams whose affiliation agreement with a major league team ends after this season.

 

But don’t expect Toledo to do anything but renew its relationship with the Detroit Tigers, a partnership that was struck in 1987.

 

While Mud Hens general manager Erik Ibsen would not confirm the renewal — “There obviously has been discussions,” he said — his words made it clear Toledo values its affiliation with the Tigers.

 

“We have a fantastic relationship with Detroit from the top on down,” Ibsen said. “The field staff we have here this season is outstanding.”

 

Full article at the link...

[billymac]

I'm not really up to speed on the minor leagues and affiliate rules.

 

The Brewers have CS at AAA, Biloxi at AA, Brevard at High A and Rattlers at A

 

Do the Brewers have any say at all about which City hosts which level? Could they have Colorado Springs go from AAA to A and Rattlers to AAA as an example? I think having CS at any level kills development, but if you have it in the lower levels, you can at least have the players get their feet wet before bumping them up.

 

Or just a pipe dream?

[brewmann04]

I like most Love Christmas but think we are getting Coal in Colorado Springs the next two years.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm not really up to speed on the minor leagues and affiliate rules.

 

The Brewers have CS at AAA, Biloxi at AA, Brevard at High A and Rattlers at A

 

Do the Brewers have any say at all about which City hosts which level? Could they have Colorado Springs go from AAA to A and Rattlers to AAA as an example? I think having CS at any level kills development, but if you have it in the lower levels, you can at least have the players get their feet wet before bumping them up.

 

Or just a pipe dream?

 

There are rules about stadium capacities for AAA for sure, probably other levels. AAA is the only level where the leagues aren't "regionalized" so there's no way it would happen for that reason. Colorado Springs is no where near any other low A league so no league would allow it to happen due to travel.

[1992casey]

The league a team plays in is up to the league and the team's owner. Sometimes, a franchise will express a desire to move up a notch (e.g. AA to AAA) and will be accepted by the "higher" league. Major League teams have nothing to do with any of this, however, unless they happen to own the minor league team.

[MadThinker88]

Posted on minor league baseball official site this morning..

 

Detroit and Toledo have renewed their PDC thru 2018 season...

 

Ugggggg.

[And That]

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20160920&content_id=202343736&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_t512&sid=t512

 

There's the link to the Mud Hens' announcement of their PDC extension with Detroit.

 

Why can't we have the nice things? Or even the Toledo-type things?

 

Tacoma hasn't officially renewed with Seattle yet, have they? I guess there's that?

[madbad2000]

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20160920&content_id=202343736&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_t512&sid=t512

 

There's the link to the Mud Hens' announcement of their PDC extension with Detroit.

 

Why can't we have the nice things? Or even the Toledo-type things?

 

Is this the first time in history that Toledo has been referred to as a nice thing?

[1992casey]

Max Klinger loved Toledo, but that's fiction.

[reillymcshane]

When we get stuck with the minor league team on the moon we'll be begging for High Desert and Colorado Springs.

[madbad2000]

When we get stuck with the minor league team on the moon we'll be begging for High Desert and Colorado Springs.

 

Or sit back and enjoy every hit literally being a moonshot.

[CheezWizHed]

Is this the first time in history that Toledo has been referred to as a nice thing?

 

Michigan and Ohio did fight over Toledo. Ohio won and Michigan was given the UP as a consolation prize. I don't think they will want to give up Toledo again.

[FVBrewerFan]

Is this the first time in history that Toledo has been referred to as a nice thing?

 

Michigan and Ohio did fight over Toledo. Ohio won and Michigan was given the UP as a consolation prize. I don't think they will want to give up Toledo again.

 

I say we trade Fond du Lac to OH. Then move our AAA team to Toledo. AAA problems WHOAA SOLVVD

[Jenkins5]

Is this the first time in history that Toledo has been referred to as a nice thing?

 

Michigan and Ohio did fight over Toledo. Ohio won and Michigan was given the UP as a consolation prize. I don't think they will want to give up Toledo again.

 

I say we trade Fond du Lac to OH. Then move our AAA team to Toledo. AAA problems WHOAA SOLVVD

 

Hey now, leave Fondy out of this! Lol We were actually one vote away from being Wisconsin's capital!

 

Brewers & Mark A need to just buck up and care enough about their future to invest into it. Buy a team outright & forget about all the drama every couple of years. Move a team to Madison, it will make money, is a one hour drive away for call ups, and is a pretty neutral (offense & Pitching) to play come May. Even if not Madison, find somewhere & buy own team.

[brewmann04]

I wonder if he thinking of doing something like this.

[adambr2]

If you want to see how Colorado Springs can ruin a pitching prospect, look no further than Jorge Lopez. Hard to believe this was a borderline top 50 guy last year, now he's an afterthought.

 

Hader was untouchable in Biloxi, but struggled in Colorado Springs.

 

This is a very serious problem and needs to be addressed immediately. Not in 2 years.

[CheezWizHed]

If you want to see how Colorado Springs can ruin a pitching prospect, look no further than Jorge Lopez. Hard to believe this was a borderline top 50 guy last year, now he's an afterthought.

 

Hader was untouchable in Biloxi, but struggled in Colorado Springs.

 

"Ruined" is a bit hyperbolic...

 

Hader certainly struggled without his best breaking pitches, but that isn't ruined. He didn't have a beautiful <2.00 ERA like Biloxi, but that is also not ruined.

 

Lopez also struggled because he relies on his breaking pitch heavily. But he also lost control of his FB, which is the main reason he was set back this year (and then sent back to Biloxi). Control of a FB can't be blamed on Colorado's rarified air.

 

The main danger of places like Brevard and Colorado is having people make bad habits to compensate for the environment. Having inflated results at Colorado isn't ruined, its expected.

[patrickgpe]

well there is no good solution remaining, once Rochester reupped with the twins it was pretty apparent we were stuck in CS for 2 years.

 

I think the brewers need to spend 2017 figuirng out how they want to proceed (purchase a high A ball and triple A club, what markets to concentrate on),

 

i know they should have been doing this over the last 2 years, but apparently they didn't.

[TheCrew07]

I don't think this is the tragedy that some have made it to be, and not to single out adambr2, but Colorado Springs didn't anything to Jorge, Jorge did it to himself. I actually think there's some value to pitching in Colorado Springs in learning how to overcome adversity and pitch in a different manner than one is used to.

 

If anything CS highlights the problem which so many of the Brewer's top pitching prospects face, none are particularly adept at controlling their FB and when you don't have secondary stuff to fall back on FB location becomes everything. Hader and Jungmann in particular work off the plate so much with their off speed that I think there's value in reinforcing the need for better FB control and command, and truthfully better control and command of all their pitches in general.

[adambr2]

If you want to see how Colorado Springs can ruin a pitching prospect, look no further than Jorge Lopez. Hard to believe this was a borderline top 50 guy last year, now he's an afterthought.

 

Hader was untouchable in Biloxi, but struggled in Colorado Springs.

 

"Ruined" is a bit hyperbolic...

 

Hader certainly struggled without his best breaking pitches, but that isn't ruined. He didn't have a beautiful <2.00 ERA like Biloxi, but that is also not ruined.

 

Lopez also struggled because he relies on his breaking pitch heavily. But he also lost control of his FB, which is the main reason he was set back this year (and then sent back to Biloxi). Control of a FB can't be blamed on Colorado's rarified air.

 

The main danger of places like Brevard and Colorado is having people make bad habits to compensate for the environment. Having inflated results at Colorado isn't ruined, its expected.

 

I didn't say Colorado Springs ruined Hader, just Lopez. But I do stand by that. No, FB control can't be blamed on Colorado Springs air. But lack I

of break on a CB can. And once the cycle begins, and confidence is lost, it can lead to other problems.

 

Just because higher results at Colorado Springs is expected doesn't mean it doesn't get in a pitcher's head anyway.

[balsamlaker]

As it has been stated in other forums, I don't know how the current situation in Colorado Springs with a bad ballpark in altitude is good for any affiliate (which explains why the nearby Rockies left for Albuquerque). Albuquerque is probably a great comp for Lancaster in High-A.

 

Since it looks like Gord and company may have had no success moving out even into not very great situations in Las Vegas or Fresno, do you think the Brewers and/or the Elmore group would think way outside the box if the San Antonio situation is not going to happen? What about looking at geographically closer affiliates at lower levels that have great ballparks and strong attendance that may not be tied to the fact the parent club is nearby - Fort Wayne, IN? Obviously this would take some time to put together, but doesn't it make sense?

[1992casey]

Welcome to the board, balsamlaker.

 

Fort Wayne would be the smallest AAA location, coming in below Reno.

 

[pre]City MSA CSA

Reno 450,890 (2015) 579,668 (2010)

Fort Wayne 408,071 (2016) 569,636 (2016)[/pre]

MSA = Metropolitan Statistical Area. CSA = Combined Statistical Area (which covers a broader area than MSA).

[balsamlaker]

The reason I chose Fort Wayne is it has a great stadium that draws a nice crowd without a local big league club affiliation. Obviously there would be other MWL choices that could also be intriguing whether it be Dayton, Kane County, Lansing, etc. I just thought Fort Wayne was the most interesting of all of them.