Lucroy Trades/Proposals

[monty57]

here have been posters on this site who have bemoaned the lack of clubhouse leadership the past few years, probably since the departure of Prince, and I have been one of those guys. This speaks volumes to me that Lucroy is not a team leader in the sense that a leader figures out a way to lead instead of complains about the hand he's dealt.

 

Agree. The "leaders" on the team have been Gomez, who is the opposite of discipline, Lucroy who seems discontent with anything in life, and Braun who recently sat out for a season watching his team play, probably elevating the previous two to "team leader" status. That in and of itself won't necessitate highly erratic play for the team, but it probably doesn't help.

 

To Lucroy's comments, I can see how players could be frustrated with the current situation, which could be exacerbated by the new GM, with actions like not even talking to Lind once in the period between when he was named GM to the day Lind was traded. True or not, this kind of paints a picture of him being the proverbial "stat geek" who looks at things on paper and doesn't come out of the ivory tower into the mundane world of real life. Hopefully a little experience (and maybe some guidance from Melvin) can help him learn the personal aspect of being a GM, who should have some "team leader" in him. At the end of the day, the reason the team is rebuilding is that the players on the team were not good enough to compete, so before getting too ticked off about the situation, they should realize that they are the ones whose play led them into the situation.

 

All in all, Lucroy should have been more tactful, as he was essentially telling his teammates they aren't very good, while telling other GMs that he wants out. Analyze every word if you want, but other GMs will read between the lines, which is not too difficult to do from his comments. But the statements are not the reason he should be traded. He should be traded because that is the best baseball move for the Brewers at this point, and trading him should bring back players that will increase our odds of winning, at which point we will add talent to the MLB team instead of trading it away.

[tmwiese55]

I get that maybe he should stay away from the media as a story like this hurts the Brewers leverage. However, I don't agree with being mad at him for being honest, calling him a whiner, etc. How much do we complain about athletes giving canned BS answers of no substance. Here you have a guy give a completely honest and fair answer for once. And then everyone gets mad it him for saying it, well, this is why they all lie and give cliche BS answers. Because they know anything else will lead to some sort of blowback.

[DuWayne Steurer]

He shouldn't have said that the team would be competing for the World Series this year, because they almost surely are not. But he also didn't need to say that the team wasn't going to compete for the playoffs, regardless of whether it is true or not. It's like when we make dinner for our kids, or especially when someone else cooks for them, we've taught them to always communicate what they like about the food, as opposed to, "CAULIFLOWER MASH EWW." And if they don't like anything about the meal, say thanks and move on. There's no reason to be focused on the negative.

 

So I can definitely understand how saying that the team won't be competitive will rub people the wrong way. Just because something is true, it doesn't mean you need to say it. Something to the effect of, "we're going to go out and compete and play good baseball and we'll see what happens" would be much, much better from a PR perspective. And completely (I would hope) truthful. And I guarantee you if he said that, people would not have been irked by it.

 

His comments are also colored by his comments last season about the Brewers' failures in drafting, which included some of his teammates. If he hadn't already had the history of negativity, I think people would have given him a longer leash with what he said yesterday.

 

 

While boring "athlete speak", and not what the hardcore baseball fans want to hear, this is probably what Lucroy *should* have said. (again, given how his comments last year inflamed a segment of the fan-base.

 

Did anyone think the Astros would go .500 this year? Did anyone think the Astros would be 2 innings away from being in the ALCS?? (Seriously, I'd be curious to see what the pre-season playoff odds were for the Astros)

 

I'm not even saying the Brewers HAVE a ghost of a chance. But don't close the door on it before it even happens.

[Jirsch]

Did anyone think the Astros would go .500 this year? Did anyone think the Astros would be 2 innings away from being in the ALCS?? (Seriously, I'd be curious to see what the pre-season playoff odds were for the Astros)

 

I'm not even saying the Brewers HAVE a ghost of a chance. But don't close the door on it before it even happens.

 

Just for reference sake, the Astros (preseason) were 22/1 to make the playoffs last year (4.35% chance), and 150/1 to win the World Series. Their O/U for wins was set at 75.5.

 

As for Lucroy's comments, I understand everything he said is true. And also that he has the right to say them. He has always been outspoken, and rarely, if ever, "swallowed blood" biting his tongue when asked a question. But we all know whats going on here, and so should even the casual fan. The questions could have been answered with a considerable more amount of tact on his part. A party line answer that we hear every week in press conferences could have been used. But again, I refer back to the fact that he has never, in my memory, given a party line answer. It is what it is, and unless they get a haul for him, as they should, lets see how it plays out with him behind the dish at Miller Park.

[MrTPlush]

I read the JSonline comments for a better understanding of the view on this and it seems the majority weren't happy with his comments. Even the guys who agreed with him mostly though the comments probably weren't the best public comments to make.

 

Also he did not demand a trade, but he made it quite clear he would like one badly. It was just a giant knock on the Brewers and their organization. No player should ever go into the season saying "We suck and have no chance." I can't even remember the last time I heard a player make such a comment. His comments coming out right when he decided to not to to go to Brewers On Deck was also a poor move. Possibly the top fan favorite and he opts not to take 2 days of his life to come to a very important event. Rubs a lot of people the wrong way and after his comments it makes him out to be a bad guy.

[dlk9s]

I read the JSonline comments for a better understanding of the view on this

I'm going to stop you right there.

[MrTPlush]

I read the JSonline comments for a better understanding of the view on this

I'm going to stop you right there.

 

Look I know JS is garbage for anything that takes knowledge to know(trade ideas etc, etc.), but in this case I think it is useful. They are fans and clearly many are not thrilled with the comments. Their conversations are the same there as here on the subject. FS Wisconsin also posted it on Facebook getting much of the same reaction.

 

See the trend?

[monty57]

I read the JSonline comments for a better understanding of the view on this and it seems the majority weren't happy with his comments. Even the guys who agreed with him mostly though the comments probably weren't the best public comments to make.

 

Also he did not demand a trade, but he made it quite clear he would like one badly. It was just a giant knock on the Brewers and their organization. No player should ever go into the season saying "We suck and have no chance." I can't even remember the last time I heard a player make such a comment. His comments coming out right when he decided to not to to go to Brewers On Deck was also a poor move. Possibly the top fan favorite and he opts not to take 2 days of his life to come to a very important event. Rubs a lot of people the wrong way and after his comments it makes him out to be a bad guy.

 

Yeah, to me the comments were about as transparent as someone saying "It's not you, it's me" when breaking up with their significant other... of course it's you!!

 

You can analyze the exact words he used, but the intent was quite clear.

[MilwaukeesBest]

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/67804/jonathan-lucroy-wants-to-be-traded-and-here-are-some-options

 

Getting back to the trade proposal idea, ESPN posted an interesting article today on five potential suitors and some ideas on prospects the Milwaukee would be interested in. Houston would be an interesting fit, as the article states AJ Reed as a potential headliner in a deal. Nationals was Trea Turner. Rangers was the possibility of Gallo. Minnesota had a few, mainly Max Kepler or Nick Gordon. Tampa Bay was Ian Snell.

 

My question is if you had to rank these prospects alone and factoring in Milwaukee's system's needs, separate from any other prospects teams could throw in to strengthen a potential deal, how would you do it? I think AJ Reed would be interesting to get back in a deal as there's no real promising first base option in the system (whether the Astros would trade him though, that may be entirely different). Trea Turner would be awesome to have too to be able to play second base in the majors. A double play tandem with him and Orlando is something we as fans can dream about

[narwhalattack]

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/67804/jonathan-lucroy-wants-to-be-traded-and-here-are-some-options

 

Getting back to the trade proposal idea, ESPN posted an interesting article today on five potential suitors and some ideas on prospects the Milwaukee would be interested in. Houston would be an interesting fit, as the article states AJ Reed as a potential headliner in a deal. Nationals was Trea Turner. Rangers was the possibility of Gallo. Minnesota had a few, mainly Max Kepler or Nick Gordon. Tampa Bay was Ian Snell.

 

My question is if you had to rank these prospects alone and factoring in Milwaukee's system's needs, separate from any other prospects teams could throw in to strengthen a potential deal, how would you do it? I think AJ Reed would be interesting to get back in a deal as there's no real promising first base option in the system (whether the Astros would trade him though, that may be entirely different). Trea Turner would be awesome to have too to be able to play second base in the majors. A double play tandem with him and Orlando is something we as fans can dream about

 

Regarding the Nationals, I also like the idea of getting Victor Robles in return. Sure, the Brewers' system is full of OF prospects, but talent is talent. I definitely wouldn't mind getting Turner, though.

 

For Minnesota, I would like Kepler and Jay, although Gordon is nice too.

[pacopete4]

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/67804/jonathan-lucroy-wants-to-be-traded-and-here-are-some-options

 

Getting back to the trade proposal idea, ESPN posted an interesting article today on five potential suitors and some ideas on prospects the Milwaukee would be interested in. Houston would be an interesting fit, as the article states AJ Reed as a potential headliner in a deal. Nationals was Trea Turner. Rangers was the possibility of Gallo. Minnesota had a few, mainly Max Kepler or Nick Gordon. Tampa Bay was Ian Blake Snell.

 

My question is if you had to rank these prospects alone and factoring in Milwaukee's system's needs, separate from any other prospects teams could throw in to strengthen a potential deal, how would you do it? I think AJ Reed would be interesting to get back in a deal as there's no real promising first base option in the system (whether the Astros would trade him though, that may be entirely different). Trea Turner would be awesome to have too to be able to play second base in the majors. A double play tandem with him and Orlando is something we as fans can dream about

 

To me it's a no brainer. Get Blake Snell on this club. Pitching, pitching, pitching and more pitching! Add in a Casey Gillaspie and another prospect and walk away happy.

[Jenkins5]

I think If Blake Snell is on table you grab him without a doubt, DS likes value to much though so not sure he'd get enough else in the package to pull trigger. Jake Bauers is one prospect Id want back with him.

 

Nationals

If we can get Trea Turner, I'd be very interested! Arcia & Turner up the middle will be an unbelievable middle infield defensively. Mix in Phillips in CF as well. Not to mention he brings 80 speed and hasn't stopped hitting since being drafted. Turner is a solid SS but not in same ball park as Arcia. He would however be an above average to very good defensive 2B. The 2 other young prospects I'd want would be Jackson Reetz and Anderson Franco. They just don't have any pitchers I really like to through in. Their best pitcher is untouchable.

[mlloyd10]

Turner/Taylor for Lucroy/Smith

[crickets]

No chance at Gallo, but I'd still prefer Rangers with Brinson, Ortiz and Matuella. Package someone with Lucroy to get a better return.

 

heyman saying the price of prospects going up...not a good time for that

 

[gregmag]

Thanks to everybody for the detailed trade proposal analyses. I've fallen off badly in my knowledge of other teams' prospects, so this thread is an education.

 

Re: Lucroy's comments, I'm less put out than most people. The guy is blunt. I remember during a playoff series against the Cardinals, LaRussa was doing some of his typical mix of whining and lying about the Brewers (I can't remember the details; his nonsense has all congealed in my brain), and Lucroy was the guy who stepped up and called him on it. I think that blunt style sometimes embodies leadership. But I understand others' point that sometimes it doesn't.

 

What I don't understand is the argument that Lucroy's statements will have any kind of important consequences. If the theory is that uninformed fans will make more of the comments than we might think they warrant, how do we figure uninformed fans are reading Brewers features in the J-S in January? Even if those fans are aware of and thinking about Lucroy's comments, I doubt many people could read his whole, rather roundabout statement and take much of anything away from it. If the idea is that some fans didn't know the team was rebuilding, I'm glad someone told them. Nobody should be under any illusions.

 

The idea that these statements affect his trade value makes even less sense to me. Do we really think any GM in baseball, especially those who are thinking seriously about trading for Lucroy, didn't already know that (a) he's blunt; (b) he's probably not the happiest of campers, given that the Brewers publicly rebuffed his extension talk a year ago; © like any normal, competitive veteran, he'd like to win a championship; and (d) he's fully and painfully aware that the Brewers are rebuilding? To the people who matter in the trade calculus, none of this stuff is remotely news.

[3and2Fastball]

For what it is worth, all of the panelists on the MLB Now TV show today said that Lucroy's comments could negatively effect his trade value. Both Carlos Pena & John Smoltz said that those kind of comments are not a good idea to put out there publically, and that it could effect the Brewers clubhouse atmosphere if Lucroy is kept.

[reillymcshane]

Deals for Luc:

 

Nationals: Something involving Trea Turner would be good at 2B. Nats wouldn't do Golito.

Twins: Jay and Kepler would be a nice combo to get.

Texas: Tate and Matuella - like the high upside arms.

Tampa: Snell would be awesome, but I don't know if they'd do it. Probably end up with more of a quantity deal.

Houston: Bergmann (Houston doesn't need a SS or 2B). Move him to 2B, which is probably his ideal position. Daz Cameron or AJ Reed would be an interesting starting point.

 

Please note that these are starting points. You might have to expand the deal to make things work. But my goal is at least one big upside player. I really like Texas as I want their pitching. I think that's the big thing we need in this org - high upside pitching.

[And That]

I like the idea of adding Peralta, ala adding Fiers in the Astros deal, to increase the return. By the time the Brewers are good, Peralta might be a free agent, and who knows if he'll ever be able to turn the corner and actually use his arsenal of pitches effectively?

[3and2Fastball]

Houston: Bergmann (Houston doesn't need a SS or 2B). Move him to 2B, which is probably his ideal position. Daz Cameron or AJ Reed would be an interesting starting point.

.

 

Do you mean Alex Bregman? If so I think he'd be great to trade for. I think at the very least he'll be a good solid MLB starter. Arcia & Bregman would be an amazing duo potentially. I watched Bregman playing with LSU alot and he is the real deal.

 

I think if Houston is smart, though, they let Altuve walk after the 2018 or 2019 season and replace him with Bregman. While Altuve will only be 30 entering the 2020 season, he'll be likely declining in terms of running speed at least, which is a big part of his game.

[reillymcshane]

Houston: Bergmann (Houston doesn't need a SS or 2B). Move him to 2B, which is probably his ideal position. Daz Cameron or AJ Reed would be an interesting starting point.

.

 

Do you mean Alex Bregman? If so I think he'd be great to trade for. I think at the very least he'll be a good solid MLB starter. Arcia & Bregman would be an amazing duo potentially. I watched Bregman playing with LSU alot and he is the real deal.

 

I think if Houston is smart, though, they let Altuve walk after the 2018 or 2019 season and replace him with Bregman. While Altuve will only be 30 entering the 2020 season, he'll be likely declining in terms of running speed at least, which is a big part of his game.

Yes, alex bergman. Houston would be wise to keep him, but win-now can often cause teams to deal a guy like him (such as AZ dealing Swanson to Atlanta). They do have Altuve for four more years. They could potentially move Correa to 3B as well in a few years.

[RockCoCougars]

Like all of these guys, you can read between the lines to see that this is more about money than winning. Lucroy has obviously checked out since the team rejected his extension overtures last year. I think that his career season back in 2014 has made people think that he is better than he is.... most notably Lucroy himself. The fact of the matter is that he stunk last year and was a key contributor to the brutal season. He killed the team and his trade value took a big hit. Some 'leader'.

 

I say move him before the season starts, take the best offer that you get.

[Eye Black]

While the Heyman tweet is somewhat discouraging, I am going to continue to hope that the negativity (i.e. Brewers scaring teams away, teams not offering anything of value, etc.) isn't entirely accurate. Ultimately it only takes one team to make a Lucroy trade work.

 

Regarding a trade with the Nationals, I think a fit is possible. If the Brewers were willing to think young in a deal (which I am confident they would), they could score some exciting young prospects. The Nationals have a treo of teenagers with promising futures.

 

The first is 18 year old 3B Anderson Franco who has already found his way into the Nats top ten prospects (according to BA). Want some more info on Franco, who was signed out of the Dominican Republic in 2013, then read this ARTICLE.

 

Next is 19 year old RHP Pedro Avila originally signed out of Venezuela in 2014. In his first professional season Avila managed 92 Ks with only 18 BB in 63.2 IP.

 

Last of the teenagers, and arguably the most talented, is 18 year old OF Victor Robles from the Dominican Republic. Recently named the Nationals 3rd best overall prospect by BA, he has busted onto the scene. Want to get excited about Robles, read this ARTICLE.

 

If the Brewers were able to snag these teenagers along with one highly regarded pitcher (Reynaldo Lopez, Erick Fedde, or A.J. Cole), then I would make a deal and send Lucroy to D.C. where he can win games and break-up Papelbon/Harper fights.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Price of prospects is going up? Didn't Swanson recently get traded?

[MrTPlush]

Price of prospects is going up? Didn't Swanson recently get traded?

 

Bad example. Not saying the statement is right or wrong, but the Swanson trade is an outlier. Not to mention 95% of people think it was highway robbery.

[logan82]

Not sure how Lucroy stunk last year. He had a 93 WRC+ so he was close to league average and in the top half of catchers in an off year. His second half was night and day better than his first half and there is reason to believe that he was still fighting an injury the first half of last year.