Lucroy Trades/Proposals

[Jenkins5]

I have backed away from Gallo & I suggest Brewers do to as they did in the draft when he was sitting right there for them (Hanigar instead). I would take Profar over Gallo. Gallo could K 200x a season while hitting .200 to go with his 40 HRs.

 

If I am DS, I personally take Brinson, a top arm (Mutuella, Ortiz, Jurado, Mendez, Tate), and a young rookie ball guy or 2 and walk away.

[reillymcshane]

Gallo might end up a bust, but the power is so tantalizing, I doubt I could pass on it. The guy was rushed last year (he just turned 22 two months ago), and he needs some more time at AAA.

[brewcrewdue80]

I'm going the other route. I'd take Gallo. Guy is going to be 22. At 20 he batted .232 in AA. Last season age 21 .314. AAA-.195 and MLB .204 He has .250+ career minors avg. This is a future .900OPS+ bat for 3rd base mind you! It's not 40HRs in his bat it's 50-55HRs when he plays 140+games. 42 in 126 games in 2014. Oh and he's Left Handed... It's like the Kris Bryant talk he wont hit for a BA...Well? .275 with 199ks. 26HRs. Almost 6WAR as a rookie.

Gallo is a little less than 2years younger. It took Chris Davis til he was 26 to breakout for 30+HRs. Gallo is going to be 22 this entire season. Watch him grow in to a super star and be for Milw vs Texas.

[Jenkins5]

I love his potential and really he does get his walks & hits but every year he is striking out 35-40%. We complain about Domingo striking out too much and he is in the 27-30% range. Granted he has been young at every level but he has never shown any ability to lower that rate. Even when he is dominating, he is still striking out at a very high clip.

 

I think he very easily could become one of the best bats in baseball but the fact he has such a hard time making contact is very troubling. When you have THAT many holes in your swing, you be in for a giant MLB bust career. Just as likely as he is to be one of the elite bats in MLB, he could top out as a Mark Reynolds all or nothing type. Get his HRs but not much else. Still value in that.

 

Moreover, Kris Bryant and Joey Gallo aren't very comparable. Bryant throughout the minors struck out like Domingo Santana at a 25-29% clip. With the Cubs he struck out his highest amount at 30%. If Gallo ever came close to only striking out at a 30% clip, they may throw a city parade. I get that he is younger but given the same at bats as Bryant, he would have been 220-240 K's.

 

Overall he is in the same boat as Javier Baez, (except the only time Baez has k'd over 30% is at MLB level, minors mid 20's) he just misses the ball far to much despite all the talent in the world when he does make contact. The biggest thing outside his power he had going for him is that he walks. Without his ability to walk (Baez's other major issue), I wouldn't even consider him. With his ability to still get on base when he is striking out every other AB right now, I would still consider him just not sold on him

[Jenkins5]

I guess it depends if Gallo is all we are getting in the deal. I'm split on it. If it is just Gallo for Lucroy then no. If we can squeeze out a couple more prospects then yes. I just see more value in Brinson, A top Pitcher, rookie ball prospect(s).

[brewtank34]

I wouldn't take any of these deals. Stearns is not looking for MLB talent back for Lucroy.

 

And you know this because?

 

A. Everybody assumes it

 

B. Stearns has let you in on it

 

C. It's not possible a young player already in the majors has any appeal whatsoever because they are building for 2023 and beyond when Arcia will be gone, not 2020

 

It's not what you would take Crickets, it's what Stearns would take and unless Stearns is on here or you have a pipeline to what he's thinking, I wouldn't rule out any possibility but I agree, none of these proposals are appealing, but not because some players have major league experience.

 

B. Stearns has let you in on it

 

Come back anytime Crickets. Don't let your profile name represent how often to post/provide nuggets.

[brewtank34]

You gotta think AZ is trying as hard as possible to land Lucroy based on his experience in catching AZ's new mega millionaire pitcher, Zach Greinke. I'm thinking this will be the eventual landing spot for Lucroy. AZ's park is almost mirror to Miller Park where Luc would be able to feel comfortable hitting.

[Jenkins5]

Pretty good article

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2610920-jonathan-lucroy-could-provide-big-trade-impact-as-all-star-level-catcher

[MrTPlush]

You gotta think AZ is trying as hard as possible to land Lucroy based on his experience in catching AZ's new mega millionaire pitcher, Zach Greinke. I'm thinking this will be the eventual landing spot for Lucroy. AZ's park is almost mirror to Miller Park where Luc would be able to feel comfortable hitting.

 

Couldn't disagree less. I see people say this way too much and it makes no sense. Zack Greinke was garbage(for his standards) with Lucroy catching him in Milwaukee. Last year with a catcher that had little MLB experience and catching Greinke for the first time had one of the best seasons in recent memory by a starter.

 

If anything Lucroy's track record of catching Greinke is a negative. In my opinion it means nothing though.

[And That]

Couldn't disagree less.

I do not think that phrase means what you think it means.

[reillymcshane]

Couldn't disagree less.

I do not think that phrase means what you think it means.

[jerichoholicninja]

You gotta think AZ is trying as hard as possible to land Lucroy based on his experience in catching AZ's new mega millionaire pitcher, Zach Greinke. I'm thinking this will be the eventual landing spot for Lucroy. AZ's park is almost mirror to Miller Park where Luc would be able to feel comfortable hitting.

 

Couldn't disagree less. I see people say this way too much and it makes no sense. Zack Greinke was garbage(for his standards) with Lucroy catching him in Milwaukee. Last year with a catcher that had little MLB experience and catching Greinke for the first time had one of the best seasons in recent memory by a starter.

 

If anything Lucroy's track record of catching Greinke is a negative. In my opinion it means nothing though.

 

Greinke's numbers with Lucroy catching are 3.47 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 10.0 K/9, 2.4 BB/9.

Greinke's career numbers are 3.35 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 8.1 K/9, 2.2 BB/9.

 

Seem pretty similar to me. In fact, Greinke's best season in terms of K/9 was with Lucroy catching. I don't put a whole lot of stock into who's catching making a big difference but he was not "garbage" (even by his standards) with Lucroy behind the plate.

[NievesNoNO]

I love his potential and really he does get his walks & hits but every year he is striking out 35-40%. We complain about Domingo striking out too much and he is in the 27-30% range. Granted he has been young at every level but he has never shown any ability to lower that rate. Even when he is dominating, he is still striking out at a very high clip.

 

 

This pretty much summarizes my feelings as well. You'd have to believe that he will drastically be able to change his approach at the plate to be a starter at the MLB level. The math says you cannot strike out at the level he does and be a very successful.

 

Even if you could assume some advancement in that area what is the upside we're realistically looking at with Gallo? To me he feels like Mark Reynolds, Chris Carter, Carlos Pena, Pedro Alvarez, maybe Adam Dunn if you wanted to be optimistic.

 

He obviously has holes in his swing that are getting exposed at the minor league level. That's against inferior competition and pitchers who many times are not even throwing their whole arsenal of pitches because they're working on different things.

 

I get the hype but I'm not sold on him.

[MrTPlush]

You gotta think AZ is trying as hard as possible to land Lucroy based on his experience in catching AZ's new mega millionaire pitcher, Zach Greinke. I'm thinking this will be the eventual landing spot for Lucroy. AZ's park is almost mirror to Miller Park where Luc would be able to feel comfortable hitting.

 

Couldn't disagree less. I see people say this way too much and it makes no sense. Zack Greinke was garbage(for his standards) with Lucroy catching him in Milwaukee. Last year with a catcher that had little MLB experience and catching Greinke for the first time had one of the best seasons in recent memory by a starter.

 

If anything Lucroy's track record of catching Greinke is a negative. In my opinion it means nothing though.

 

Greinke's numbers with Lucroy catching are 3.47 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 10.0 K/9, 2.4 BB/9.

Greinke's career numbers are 3.35 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 8.1 K/9, 2.2 BB/9.

 

Seem pretty similar to me. In fact, Greinke's best season in terms of K/9 was with Lucroy catching. I don't put a whole lot of stock into who's catching making a big difference but he was not "garbage" (even by his standards) with Lucroy behind the plate.

 

 

Zack Greinke has 4 incredible seasons none of which were with Lucroy that is the point. It's not like Greinke was having career years with Lucroy. Nothing about Lucroy makes you want to run out to overpay and get him to pair with Greinke.

[pacopete4]

I'm more sold on Brinson from Texas than Gallo. I'd like to pair up Lucroy with Davis to Texas and get Brinson plus some real impact arms coming back. An future OF of Brinson, Phillips and possibly Braun/Santana or whoever else pans out as the third has some real possibility defensively and offensively.

[Yolk]

I don't want anything to do with Gallo. The only way I wouldn't be disappointed in acquiring him is if we flipped him to another team who values him more. We already had a Russell Branyan, we don't need another. Since Mazara appears to be off the table, I'm really hoping for one of Jurickson Profar or Lewis Brinson to be part of the package (or both as the whole package if that could be worked out). It will be a waste of a good trade chip if Gallo is the get.

 

I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on Jairo Beras as a lower-level piece either.

[brewerfan82]

I for one would be just fine receiving a 22 year old, left-handed, third baseman who has averaged 100 runs, 26 doubles, 4 triples, 45 homeruns, 110 rbis, 11 stolen bases, 86 walks and a slash line of .364/.589/.953 per 600 plate appearances throughout has professional career. The guy was young for his level at every stage of the minors and is currently ranked the #1 third base prospect in all of baseball. I guess people are afraid of strikeouts and like to play scout, but I really find it hard to be "disappointed" if he ends up being part of a trade package and have a feeling people will be wishing he actually was available compared to whoever we do end up with.

[Jenkins5]

I'm flip flopping all over the place. He was top 3b prospect in baseball today by milb pipeline. I wouldn't be disappointed unless it was a straight up trade. To me there is just more value in getting multiple stud prospects over 1. Profar & Arcia double play combo I would love. There is a reason why a few years ago Profar was the most sure thing, can't miss prospect in baseball. Injuries try to strip that from him but now he is healthy, I have a feeling he is going to rise up.

[brewcrewdue80]

Pretty good article

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2610920-jonathan-lucroy-could-provide-big-trade-impact-as-all-star-level-catcher

 

They grade his pitch framing as declining as an excuse not to value him as high. Well, lets see 5+ERA Pitchers, guys like Nelson/Peralta this isn't exactly a parade of nailing the corners staff Lucroy got to work with. Team overall was tied for 4th worst BB/9 average. This after being tied 7th best in 2014. 11th in 2013.

 

 

As to Gallo. We're an OPS loving type of group. Pretty confident Gallo at worst goes .225BA-tbd OB-.500Slg. So saying if he had 0 Walks his .225/.500 is a Minimum worst of .725OPS. Now his OB avg in the minor is .111 higher than BA. I'll go .070 as a poor guess and you had that and this guy is a minimum worst .795OPS. If that is him Failing, I'll take that and be on my merry way.

 

The problem with Brinson for a return is you've got 3-5 prospects who have the same projection to be 20/20+ batters very athletic on foot. What you don't have is a Lefty 40+HR bat coming up to play 3b in the minors. Maybe someday Lara will ascend to that talent but its a number of years away if ever.

Future trades are going to be bigger and better with Gallo than Brinson.

Josh Donaldson after a .255-29HR/.798OPS season brought back a mentioned Franklin Barreto, Sean Nolin, Kendall Graveman, and Brett Lawrie.

 

Imagine if Oakland waited one more year...of course the home parks surely helped his numbers. MP is a hitters ballpark 40HRs may be a low expectation vs something MR. AL MVP just achieved for 1st time in career.

[Warning Track Power]

I am personally excited about the potential of Cecchini and Middlebrooks at 3B. While neither may ultimately be an average MLB 3B, I would be willing to give either/both the chance, with the loser being the backup at 1B/3B/PH. The thinking here is if the Brewers were to acquire Gallo, can he play 1B? If Cecchini and Gallo both pan out at 3B and 1B, and with the influx of Arcia, Phillips and Santana, the rebuild could occur quicker than anyone could have anticipated.

[Boomer5]

I am personally excited about the potential of Cecchini and Middlebrooks at 3B. While neither may ultimately be an average MLB 3B, I would be willing to give either/both the chance, with the loser being the backup at 1B/3B/PH. The thinking here is if the Brewers were to acquire Gallo, can he play 1B? If Cecchini and Gallo both pan out at 3B and 1B, and with the influx of Arcia, Phillips and Santana, the rebuild could occur quicker than anyone could have anticipated.

 

Cecchini and Middlebrooks were failures at their past teams and most guys with upside don't get released at positions of a general lack of talent at the MLB level.

 

At best, they are low risk, low ceiling change of scenery types that could possibly become replacement level starters in MIL.

 

If I were the Brewers FO, I wouldn't make any trades with Lucroy with those two in mind, since they arent guys who will block anyone with real talent.

[Jenkins5]

I understand Middlebrook, but Cecchini is a different story. They signed Panda so that already doomed him, He had his first not great season when he got to AAA. He got called up and played well. Last season, he for whatever reason had an incredibly bad season. He has always been a big walk & natural hitter type guy. Not much power but he could get on base. His K's have never really been worrisome. 2016 will be his age 25 season, I don't think overall he has simply forgot how to hit and walk. He could really be a steal if he bounces back. He is more of a Jeff Cirillo type 3B as compared to the big power bat of Middlebrook. I easily still consider him a good piece for the future. Before last season there was little doubt at all he would be a major hitter. He had a very professional approach at the plate and now he needs to get back to that.

[Boomer5]

I understand Middlebrook, but Cecchini is a different story. They signed Panda so that already doomed him, He had his first not great season when he got to AAA. He got called up and played well. Last season, he for whatever reason had an incredibly bad season. He has always been a big walk & natural hitter type guy. Not much power but he could get on base. His K's have never really been worrisome. 2016 will be his age 25 season, I don't think overall he has simply forgot how to hit and walk. He could really be a steal if he bounces back. He is more of a Jeff Cirillo type 3B as compared to the big power bat of Middlebrook. I easily still consider him a good piece for the future. Before last season there was little doubt at all he would be a major hitter. He had a very professional approach at the plate and now he needs to get back to that.

 

No one likes an internet negative nancy like I fear I am becoming on this board, but I feel I need to state the obvious;

 

What front office is releasing a 24 year old Jeff Cirillo?

[crickets]

Cirillo was more of a hitter than masher, that's what I got out of it.

[Jenkins5]

One who is blocked, coming off a brutal season, and the one they can most afford to lose on the 40 man. He wasn't on the Phillies. The Red Sox have a strong 40 man 1-40, tough decision need to be made and there was no place for him. Shaw has proved he can hit at MLB level. Hernandez had a big season this year, dominating AA, and performing well in AAA. Same goes for Coyle, has had all good years in the minors. If Cecchini doesn't have worst season imaginable, he is probably not the odd man out.