2016 Opening Day Lineup (and 2016 Batting Order Discussion)

[pacopete4]

With Rivera making the roster, part of me hopes that Villar tanks early in the season, allowing Rivera to take over. If Rivera can get hot at the plate, they could have an all-of-the-sudden extremely valuable trade piece.

 

Or they could just move him to third once Arcia is deemed ready.

 

 

This honestly makes no sense to me. Why would we want any young, switch-hitting SS to tank?

[bill hAll Star]

I think it's just as likely that Villar is a valuable trade chip as it is for Rivera to be one. Villar is only a year older than Rivera.

 

Villar's upside/ceiling is a solid offensive SS/versatile while decent defender.

 

Rivera's upside is likely a below-average hitter* (see below) + versatile very good defensive player.

 

How about this? Villar hits well and is flipped early. Rivera then takes over and can work his way into our long-term utility role or is also a trade chip.

 

I think that absolute best-case, Rivera could be a really good player if he continues to develop his bat given that he has the frame. He is smoking the ball in Spring training so there is cause for optimism, but I'll believe it when I see it for a minors/majors season. If he does develop a solid bat, then he suddenly becomes a very valuable player.

[Jenkins5]

Broxton better be opening day CF for this team, I he gets optioned down.....grrr I'd be upset

[And That]

This honestly makes no sense to me. Why would we want any young, switch-hitting SS to tank?

I'm just not sold on him. He's light years behind Rivera defensively and has big questions on the offensive side. He's kind of fast I guess?

 

Edit: Case in point why I'd like to take a chance with the much better defender:

 

The Brewers have great defense... almost nowhere.

[MrTPlush]

If you think Gennett has any chance to be even close to average vs. LHP you have clearly never watched him face LHPs. It is beyond bad and even with vast improvements it is still a giant joke. It is never ever going to happen.

 

He is a platoon bat period. That is where his value is. I think he can be an amazing hitter facing RHP and valuable to a team, but that is where the line is drawn. Facing LHP is probably a reason he started off so badly. It can really screw with a hitter.

[pacopete4]

This honestly makes no sense to me. Why would we want any young, switch-hitting SS to tank?

I'm just not sold on him. He's light years behind Rivera defensively and has big questions on the offensive side. He's kind of fast I guess?

 

 

I can understand not being sold on him but wanting him to tank literally makes no sense. The whole point of this rebuild is to find as much talent as possible and acquire as much as possible. If guys like Villar tank, that doesn't help that process.

[pacopete4]

Broxton better be opening day CF for this team, I he gets optioned down.....grrr I'd be upset

 

 

At least it won't be Shane Peterson?

[And That]

If guys like Villar tank, that doesn't help that process.

I'd literally rather players with less talent get out of the way more quickly. If Villar goes out and has an 1100 OPS at the break, great. I'd just rather not stick with him if he's going to be not good, which I think he won't be. If he ends up being moderately not awful for a few months while Rivera rides the pine, who does that help?

[pacopete4]

If guys like Villar tank, that doesn't help that process.

I'd literally rather players with less talent get out of the way more quickly. If Villar goes out and has an 1100 OPS at the break, great. I'd just rather not stick with him if he's going to be not good, which I think he won't be. If he ends up being moderately not awful for a few months while Rivera rides the pine, who does that help?

 

 

I think I'd rather see Hill tank (not that I want anyone to) to get Rivera playing time. We need guys like Villar to be better than advertised for this to be a quicker turnaround than what it could be.

[FVBrewerFan]

If you think Gennett has any chance to be even close to average vs. LHP you have clearly never watched him face LHPs.

 

I have watched him vs LHP this spring, and he looked very comfortable actually. I would pull him vs a LOOGY, but give him a chance against LH starters. Not every time, but sometimes.

[Polish Falcons]

1. Villar, ss

2. Lucroy, C

3. Braun, lf

4. Santana, RF

5. Carter, 1b

6. Hill, 3b

7. Walsh, 2b

8. Broxton, CF

9. Peralta, p

 

Went with Walsh over Scooter on opening day because they are facing MadBum. Vs rhp I go with Scooter and would start Walsh over Hill regularly. I thought about batting Hill or Walsh 2nd and making Lucroy/Braun/Santana/Carter hit 3/4/5/6 but couldn't settle on that. Middle of order is something I would play around with like that and other combos. CF chose Broxton because he is the exciting option but who knows if he will stick.

[monty57]

If you could combine Rivera's defense with Walsh's bat, you could have the makings of a pretty special middle infielder. However, as it stands Rivera looks like he will be a good long-term option as a utility IF, while Walsh really needs to work on his defense to hopefully eventually become a starting 2B.

 

For 2016, I'd try to get both of them plenty of PAs. Villar is starting, but he will have to show that his bat is good enough to keep him ahead of the vastly superior defense of Rivera. Of course, this is Arcia's future job, so both Rivera and Villar are in "showcase" mode to determine their future role. Meanwhile, Hill is keeping 3B warm to see if he can show any signs of life in order to flip him. If not, some combo of Walsh/Rivera should take over the starting 3B job sooner or later. At 2B, just go with the platoon, getting some extra PAs for Rivera/Walsh, while giving the vast majority of PAs to Gennett, who is still young, talented and has team control.

 

The OF to me is: Braun and Santana are givens, and Broxton seems the obvious choice for CF, as he is an actual CF. Meanwhile, Flores gets all the starts in the corners when Braun/Santana are off, and at 1B when Carter is off. The 5th OF is there solely to play CF when Broxton is off. Everyone but the 5th OF should get plenty of PAs

[pacopete4]

Call it a rebuilding or tanking year all anyone wants. I want this team to smack around a few teams to start the year and get some confidence brewing in that clubhouse. It will only help for this year and the future by having guys actually perform well.

[JohnBriggs12]

Scooter, by the way, just homered off Jorge de la Rosa in Arizona and now leads the team with 4 HR this spring. Who would have guessed that? Jorge's a lefty if memory serves. So was Patrick Corbin who he took deep about a week ago.

 

edit: just added a line drive single off of de la Rosa. Now batting .500 this spring.

 

Scooter can hit lefties, but like all hitters, he's streaky and he's been pigeonholed as a guy that can't him them. That's simply not true. He's had stretches (2010 in A ball, the AFL in 2012, and his stint in Colorado Springs last year, and this spring when he's done extremely well against them) When Weeks was still here, they still were paying him and it made sense to get him in the lineup and a platoon made sense. Last year Gennett started ice cold ending his bid to play everyday. If they need to get the extra guys some playing time, sure sit him against tough lefties, but this fear of playing him against all lefties is extreme and unwarranted.

[Quevedo_Qurve]

Call it a rebuilding or tanking year all anyone wants. I want this team to smack around a few teams to start the year and get some confidence brewing in that clubhouse. It will only help for this year and the future by having guys actually perform well.

 

I'm with you. I don't think it is the end of the world if we struggle, but it sure would be kind of nice to have a team that has no expectations and make some noise. Our division is stacked, but the NL does have a good handful of teams in similar situations as us. Either way, much rather watch young guys with hope than a veteran team that is on the decline.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think we saw something close to the opening day or at least regular lineup vs RHP last night: Santana, Gennett, Braun, Lucroy, Carter, Flores, Hill, Villar. Broxton has been struggling recently. If he's not optioned, I'm guessing they'll go primarily with Flores early on. If Gennett is platooned, they'll just slide Walsh in his spot though I'm thinking Hill moves to 2B, and Walsh plays 3B. I suspect Rivera will see a few starts per week at SS unless Villar gets hot and Lucroy will play 1B on many days when Maldonado is catching. They just cannot afford not to have Lucroy's bat in the lineup and be the least bit competitive.

[Boomer5]

I think we saw something close to the opening day or at least regular lineup vs RHP last night: Santana, Gennett, Braun, Lucroy, Carter, Flores, Hill, Villar. Broxton has been struggling recently. If he's not optioned, I'm guessing they'll go primarily with Flores early on. If Gennett is platooned, they'll just slide Walsh in his spot though I'm thinking Hill moves to 2B, and Walsh plays 3B. I suspect Rivera will see a few starts per week at SS unless Villar gets hot and Lucroy will play 1B on many days when Maldonado is catching. They just cannot afford not to have Lucroy's bat in the lineup and be the least bit competitive.

 

The top 4 is pretty darn competitive, especially if Santana takes the leap to the next level and can handle the lead off spot. Like a Dave Parker lite.

 

The bottom 4, uh, wow. I had high hopes for Villars but so far he doesn't look like much.

[superfly]

I think we saw something close to the opening day or at least regular lineup vs RHP last night: Santana, Gennett, Braun, Lucroy, Carter, Flores, Hill, Villar. Broxton has been struggling recently. If he's not optioned, I'm guessing they'll go primarily with Flores early on. If Gennett is platooned, they'll just slide Walsh in his spot though I'm thinking Hill moves to 2B, and Walsh plays 3B. I suspect Rivera will see a few starts per week at SS unless Villar gets hot and Lucroy will play 1B on many days when Maldonado is catching. They just cannot afford not to have Lucroy's bat in the lineup and be the least bit competitive.

 

The top 4 is pretty darn competitive, especially if Santana takes the leap to the next level and can handle the lead off spot. Like a Dave Parker lite.

 

The bottom 4, uh, wow. I had high hopes for Villars but so far he doesn't look like much.

 

Villar batted 9th last year at times for Houston too. Not surprising at this stage.

[JohnBriggs12]

I can't imagine Counsell would hesitate sticking Rivera in there if Villar doesn't hit. When Arcia arrives, I'm guessing plan is for Rivera to head back to AAA and play everyday. But if he does better than Villar, plans could change. Villar's defense at SS isn't stellar either.

[pacopete4]

I can't imagine Counsell would hesitate sticking Rivera in there if Villar doesn't hit. When Arcia arrives, I'm guessing plan is for Rivera to head back to AAA and play everyday. But if he does better than Villar, plans could change. Villar's defense at SS isn't stellar either.

 

Good chance Arcia isn't on this team until September ball ups/next season. By that time we'll know where Rivera and Villar fit going forward. I doubt Rivera is going back to AAA if he's playing well. Either way, Arcia isn't and shouldn't be in the plans for this season. No reason to burn service time unless this team has a magical season of some sorts.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

I agree with the previous post. No need to rush Arcia unless we magically end up in a playoff race. Phillips needs to stay in the minors as well. He only has a partial year at AA behind him.

[Jenkins5]

Judging by how non-aggressive & safe they are being with placements, unless Arcia is absolutely crushing AAA (hitting .330+, .900 OPS) I don't we see him any time soon. He literally has to force their hand. At this point, I'm shocked Reed, Arcia, Lopez, & Magnifico where even able to get out of Biloxi.... Only ones Flanigan allowed to.

[endaround]

This honestly makes no sense to me. Why would we want any young, switch-hitting SS to tank?

I'm just not sold on him. He's light years behind Rivera defensively and has big questions on the offensive side. He's kind of fast I guess?

 

Edit: Case in point why I'd like to take a chance with the much better defender:

 

The Brewers have great defense... almost nowhere.

 

That is probably underestimating the issue. Projections have Villar regressing to the mean (here average defensive SS) since he hasn't played that much in the majors. That said, he has a UZR/150 of -26.1 in 1344 innings at SS. That is untenable. He basically has to hit at an above league average rate at SS to overcome that glove just to be replacement level.

 

If Lucroy is traded and Pinto fills in for 80 games, that could be one of the worst defenses ever put together.

[pacopete4]

Ryan Braun hindering three straight games to end spring training brings me some hope that he is healthy and ready to go. Santana smacked homers in back to back games as well as Scooter and Luc hitting the ball well. Pitchers... Not so much. Other than Nelson.

[patrickgpe]

seems odd that the brewers haven't formally announced that Broxton and Neunenweiss made the team, i wonder if they are looking into someone like Bourne to play in center.