Brewers sign Chris Carter to a 1-year, $2.5 mil deal

[superfly]

if anybody thinks this is a bad move, they're smoking something and i would like some of it. there is zip zero nodda downside to this deal, jason rogers cant shake a stick at this guy's power.

 

oh...but rogers is a safer prospect? yeah, we really need that better average and on base percentage in a lost season. look who carter has played for (oakland, houston, and now stearns)...what is the common denominator? they all look for under the radar guys with upside.

 

at 29 carter's time is running out to become somebody, but worst case .200 / .300 / mid .700s ops with 30 bombs and 3 years of arby for 2 million bucks is peanuts.

 

somebody has to man 1st base, and somebody needs to help the team score runs. 6 scooter gennetts isn't going to get it done.

[Outlander]

I think for the most part we all assumed a 1B with warts would be signed with the hopes he would have a good first half and be flipped for prospects. Could have been Alvarez, Morneau, Pearce, whatever.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm fine with the signing but I think hoping he hits well enough to flip at the trade deadline is wishful thinking. Teams in playoff contention don't get there by making decisions based on half season of stats over the long term track record. The best hope is a team gets desperate and undervalues one of their own prospects. While that is possible i don't think that is what the Brewers are banking on. I think they are hoping to use him as a stop gap until the team is ready to be competitive again.

[ZBTMP]

I think people are missing the Brandon Moss point made above. I'm all for flipping a piece like him for another lotto ticket in six months. This is exactly the type of player we need to have on our mlb roster.

They aren't the same player. Moss was coming off of multiple seasons with above average OBP prior to last season and has some defensive versatility. WAR has limitations but it is still somewhat telling that Carter has never had a 2 fWAR season, even when he produced 37 HRs

[ZBTMP]

if anybody thinks this is a bad move, they're smoking something and i would like some of it. there is zip zero nodda downside to this deal, jason rogers cant shake a stick at this guy's power.

 

I'm still puffing. Opportunity cost is downside. I'd rather give the 500-600 PAs to someone with more potential payback. Carter has been given plenty of chances. He is 29. Its unlikely his profile/value will change much. I guess bad move might be a little strong, but underwhelming.

[Ennder]

Carter is an upgrade over Rogers and has some trade value if he has a decent start. Nothing but a positive turn of events.

[Eye Black]

I think people are missing the Brandon Moss point made above. I'm all for flipping a piece like him for another lotto ticket in six months. This is exactly the type of player we need to have on our mlb roster.

They aren't the same player. Moss was coming off of multiple seasons with above average OBP prior to last season and has some defensive versatility. WAR has limitations but it is still somewhat telling that Carter has never had a 2 fWAR season, even when he produced 37 HRs

While true they are not the same player, I am not convinced that OBP is enough to say one player has value and the other doesn't. Moss holds a career OBP of .322, but since the start of the 2012 season his OBP is .330. So yes, he is certainly above league average over that span. During the same span Carter has hovered right around the league average with a .317 OBP.

 

There is at least one thing Carter has done better than Moss (and most others). In terms of ability to hit the long ball Carter has been one of the best. During the same span noted above (2012-present) Carter is averaging a home run per 15.3 at bats. In 2014 he led all of baseball in that category with a HR in every 13.7 ABs. There is going to be a lot of swing and miss in Carter's bat, but he at least has the potential to hit enough home runs to build some trade value. And even if he doesn't, I am not sure the lost opportunity cost among the current 1B alternatives is all that high.

[JohnBriggs12]

Who are out Left handed position players going to be? To my recollection, we have: a platoon candidate in Scooter along with our 3b platoon candidate in Cechhini. Am I missing something here or wasn't one of the goals of this offseason was to get more left handed offense?

 

 

Going into a season when you are going to most likely win somewhere between 65 and 75 games, worrying about the handedness of your lineup should be of very little concern. As someone else said, finding semi-competent bodies to fill in until your prospects arrive is the goal. Carter is cheap, under team control for three years, and if he produces at 2014 levels, can most likely be flipped for a nice prospect or two. Those are the things that matter far more than what side of the plate he hits from right now.

 

I completely disagree. The reason you like to have a balanced lineup is because it's harder on the opposing pitcher to get into a rhythm. If the hope is to eventually deal some of these guys, you are going to need them to perform well but in a lineup full of similar hitters, it's pretty easy for the kind of RHP in this league to just shut the entire lot of them down game after game after game. Carter's not going to succeed in a lineup of similar swing for the fences RH bats. Nobody is with the lack of any threat from the left side mixed in. Apparently Stearns disagrees because they don't teach that course at Harvard. Making it worse is that Villar, who should be able to crack the lineup at 3B, is a better RH hitter than he is a LH hitter. That leaves Gennett as the sole lefty who has any major league track record.

[CheezWizHed]

[sarcasm]Yes, we need LH balance, so lets get Branyon back. I'm sure he is available![/sarcasm]

 

LH/RH balance is great for the offense and pitching if all things are equal. However, finding that "equal" version of a LH batter or pitcher isn't always that easy. Yes, we had Lind, but he wasn't a long term option.

 

I'm sure that Stearn's Harvard education taught him how to prioritize items of importance. And despite what JB wants, winning this year isn't a priority. Getting that balance becomes more important when you have your actual long term talent being put in place.

[homer]

So no right handed hitter can succeed without Adam Lind in the lineup.

[monty57]

The reason you like to have a balanced lineup is because it's harder on the opposing pitcher to get into a rhythm.

 

While there is merit to having a mix of lefties in the lineup, I'd far rather pitch to a lineup of Segura/Gennett/Segura/Gennett, etc. than a lineup consisting of eight Frank Thomases. The handedness matters, but the skill matters more.

 

Also, while we have been a team full of swing for the fences guys, Stearns is making moves that hopefully show that isn't going to always be the case. Picking up Carter is a stop-gap move because we have nobody else to put there. We hope it works out, but it's no big deal if it doesn't. Other moves have shown Stearns to like versatile, good defense players with plate discipline... a far cry from Melvin's m.o. of finding a big bat and sticking it at a position where they didn't have a warm body.

 

Apparently Stearns disagrees because they don't teach that course at Harvard.

 

No, they only teach that at the School of Hard Knocks. Is the Harvard degree (as opposed to being a "baseball guy") your issue with Stearns, and the reason you have hated everything he's done? I would have thought you would have loved this pick-up, as it is done to improve this year's team, and appease the fans who buy tickets. Carter is probably similar to Davis, and you hate the thought of trading Davis. If we don't make any more moves, we have a middle of the order containing Lucroy, Braun, Davis and Carter. That should be well over 100 HR, which could actually help us win some games. They still could make more trades, but let's not gripe about what has not yet, and may not ever happen, assuming that it will be something you won't like.

 

If anything, this move shows that Stearns isn't only looking 3-5 years down the road, and the rebuild really doesn't have a timetable. They could have stuck Middlebrooks at first, or moved an OF out of position to play first, opening a spot for Santana, but instead they chose to put an actual first baseman at first, even though it didn't fit the unrealistic mold of having a young, high-upside guy at every position. Believe me, I'd love to have a stud MLB ready prospect at every position, but since that isn't going to happen, I'm fine with picking up guys like Carter (and Cecchini, Broxton, etc) to see what they can do in an everyday role.

[MadScientist]

I'm fine with the signing but I think hoping he hits well enough to flip at the trade deadline is wishful thinking. Teams in playoff contention don't get there by making decisions based on half season of stats over the long term track record. The best hope is a team gets desperate and undervalues one of their own prospects. While that is possible i don't think that is what the Brewers are banking on. I think they are hoping to use him as a stop gap until the team is ready to be competitive again.

 

How he is doing at the break will affect his trade value. If he's on a hot streak and somehow managing a 900 OPS, teams are not going to make offers like he's a career 900 OPS guy, but the will likely offer more than if he is at last year's 734. Even if he is just at his career averages, there's likely to be some contender willing to offer a legit prospect. A-Ram brought one back last year, so Carter can too.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think trade value is secondary. Sure, if he hits enough bombs you'll get something back but nothing earth-shaking. The bigger factor is putting a team on the field that is at least passable.

 

I know some of you would love to have a 50-112 season to guarantee the first pick in the draft. The problem with that is it has a negative effect on the young players they're trying to develop. Nelson, Davies, maybe Lopez or Wagner. Tough to develop a young SP when he has no support. Same is true for position players. If you have to hit in a horrific line-up, makes it very difficult to reach your potential.

 

That's why a guy like Carter works. Costs almost nothing, and while not a great bat at least it's a legit power bat. And don't worry, they'll still be plenty bad enough to bet a high draft pick.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm fine with the signing but I think hoping he hits well enough to flip at the trade deadline is wishful thinking. Teams in playoff contention don't get there by making decisions based on half season of stats over the long term track record. The best hope is a team gets desperate and undervalues one of their own prospects. While that is possible i don't think that is what the Brewers are banking on. I think they are hoping to use him as a stop gap until the team is ready to be competitive again.

 

How he is doing at the break will affect his trade value. If he's on a hot streak and somehow managing a 900 OPS, teams are not going to make offers like he's a career 900 OPS guy, but the will likely offer more than if he is at last year's 734. Even if he is just at his career averages, there's likely to be some contender willing to offer a legit prospect. A-Ram brought one back last year, so Carter can too.

 

You aren't seriously comparing Ramirez to Carter are you? I am not saying he cannot get hot for a couple months and get us something at the trade deadline. I just think he is the type that gets you a bag of balls than a legit prospect. I think if he had a couple good months his return would be that of a salary dump. Which is probably more than his value is now but not something that can actually help us down the road. I guess since the term lottery ticket is in vogue he could get us that. But the odds of getting anyone who could sniff the majors is literally about the same as a lottery ticket. I think he could gain trade value in a year or two but not in half a season. i just wouldn't look at him bringing anything back next July even if he has a good first half. Nothing wrong with that. We get our stop gap to get us to someone good and maybe he builds some value to get us something extra a couple years from now.

[pacopete4]

I'm fine with the signing but I think hoping he hits well enough to flip at the trade deadline is wishful thinking. Teams in playoff contention don't get there by making decisions based on half season of stats over the long term track record. The best hope is a team gets desperate and undervalues one of their own prospects. While that is possible i don't think that is what the Brewers are banking on. I think they are hoping to use him as a stop gap until the team is ready to be competitive again.

 

How he is doing at the break will affect his trade value. If he's on a hot streak and somehow managing a 900 OPS, teams are not going to make offers like he's a career 900 OPS guy, but the will likely offer more than if he is at last year's 734. Even if he is just at his career averages, there's likely to be some contender willing to offer a legit prospect. A-Ram brought one back last year, so Carter can too.

 

You aren't seriously comparing Ramirez to Carter are you? I am not saying he cannot get hot for a couple months and get us something at the trade deadline. I just think he is the type that gets you a bag of balls than a legit prospect. I think if he had a couple good months his return would be that of a salary dump. Which is probably more than his value is now but not something that can actually help us down the road. I guess since the term lottery ticket is in vogue he could get us that. But the odds of getting anyone who could sniff the majors is literally about the same as a lottery ticket. I think he could gain trade value in a year or two but not in half a season. i just wouldn't look at him bringing anything back next July even if he has a good first half. Nothing wrong with that. We get our stop gap to get us to someone good and maybe he builds some value to get us something extra a couple years from now.

 

Ramirez was 37 and on his last legs and told everyone he was retiring after the season. Also he was OPS'ing .725, was often injured and playing very suspect defense. He returned us a player that might be a valuable piece to our bullpen. You really don't think that in a half season that a 29 year old guy who swats home runs like he's playing in the 1990's can't net us a valuable piece moving forward? I think that's very nearsighted thinking.

[crickets]

Carter could certainly be added to a trade if hitting well at the deadline for perhaps a Braun or Davis type to sweeten a return. There are always teams looking for pop on the bench for a playoff run.

 

Alone, not sure what he could bring back comparing a Barrios type return. Barrios turned out to be a pretty good return for Ramirez.

[Thurston Fluff]

Ramirez was 37 and on his last legs and told everyone he was retiring after the season. Also he was OPS'ing .725, was often injured and playing very suspect defense. He returned us a player that might be a valuable piece to our bullpen. You really don't think that in a half season that a 29 year old guy who swats home runs like he's playing in the 1990's can't net us a valuable piece moving forward? I think that's very nearsighted thinking.

 

The only team that would trade for either of them would be looking for short term help. So age doesn't really figure onto it. Ramirez got us something because he always starts slow and has a record of finishing well. Carter has a reputation of not being very good period. Knowing a player usually starts slow and has monster second halves is bound to get you more than someone who usually blows but had a hot half season. If he produces this season and into next things change. I just don't think flipping him for anything of value will happen this July. That's not a bad thing. We need someone there for at least one season anyway and he can build much more value by being good for a couple seasons than he ever could in half of one season

[brewerfan82]

Ramirez was 37 and on his last legs and told everyone he was retiring after the season. Also he was OPS'ing .725, was often injured and playing very suspect defense. He returned us a player that might be a valuable piece to our bullpen. You really don't think that in a half season that a 29 year old guy who swats home runs like he's playing in the 1990's can't net us a valuable piece moving forward? I think that's very nearsighted thinking.

 

The only team that would trade for either of them would be looking for short term help. So age doesn't really figure onto it. Ramirez got us something because he always starts slow and has a record of finishing well. Carter has a reputation of not being very good period. Knowing a player usually starts slow and has monster second halves is bound to get you more than someone who usually blows but had a hot half season. If he produces this season and into next things change. I just don't think flipping him for anything of value will happen this July. That's not a bad thing. We need someone there for at least one season anyway and he can build much more value by being good for a couple seasons than he ever could in half of one season

 

1. Because of the reason you stated, age is one of the reasons they are comparable. Both were/are lightning in a bottle acquisitions that aren't necessarily looked as longterm solutions. The only difference was that ARam got us what he got us KNOWING he could ONLY be for the remainder of the one season and Carter still has the potential to help someone for a couple additional seasons as well.

 

2. I think you're overrating where Ramirez was in his career and/or underestimating what Carter has shown:

 

 

[pre]2013-2015 Overall

-----------------

Ramirez: .328/.434/.762 1273 AB, 44 HR, 88 BB

Carter: .312/.459/.771 1404 AB, 90 HR, 183 BB

 

2013-2015 Pre All-Star

----------------------

Ramirez: .321/.431/.752 699 AB, 26 HR, 49 BB

Carter: .303/.438/.741 848 AB, 52 HR, 109 BB

 

2013-2015 Post All-Star

-----------------------

Ramirez: .335/.437/.772 574 AB, 18 HR, 39 BB

Carter: .326/.491/.817 556 AB, 38 HR, 74 BB[/pre]

 

So while I'm not saying Carter's not without his warts, I think it's perfectly reasonable to compare him to Ramirez and suggest he could even bring a better return than ARam did.

[pacopete4]

Ramirez was 37 and on his last legs and told everyone he was retiring after the season. Also he was OPS'ing .725, was often injured and playing very suspect defense. He returned us a player that might be a valuable piece to our bullpen. You really don't think that in a half season that a 29 year old guy who swats home runs like he's playing in the 1990's can't net us a valuable piece moving forward? I think that's very nearsighted thinking.

 

The only team that would trade for either of them would be looking for short term help. So age doesn't really figure onto it. Ramirez got us something because he always starts slow and has a record of finishing well. Carter has a reputation of not being very good period. Knowing a player usually starts slow and has monster second halves is bound to get you more than someone who usually blows but had a hot half season. If he produces this season and into next things change. I just don't think flipping him for anything of value will happen this July. That's not a bad thing. We need someone there for at least one season anyway and he can build much more value by being good for a couple seasons than he ever could in half of one season

 

1. Because of the reason you stated, age is one of the reasons they are comparable. Both were/are lightning in a bottle acquisitions that aren't necessarily looked as longterm solutions. The only difference was that ARam got us what he got us KNOWING he could ONLY be for the remainder of the one season and Carter still has the potential to help someone for a couple additional seasons as well.

 

2. I think you're overrating where Ramirez was in his career and/or underestimating what Carter has shown:

 

 

[pre]2013-2015 Overall

-----------------

Ramirez: .328/.434/.762 1273 AB, 44 HR, 88 BB

Carter: .312/.459/.771 1404 AB, 90 HR, 183 BB

 

2013-2015 Pre All-Star

----------------------

Ramirez: .321/.431/.752 699 AB, 26 HR, 49 BB

Carter: .303/.438/.741 848 AB, 52 HR, 109 BB

 

2013-2015 Post All-Star

-----------------------

Ramirez: .335/.437/.772 574 AB, 18 HR, 39 BB

Carter: .326/.491/.817 556 AB, 38 HR, 74 BB[/pre]

 

So while I'm not saying Carter's not without his warts, I think it's perfectly reasonable to compare him to Ramirez and suggest he could even bring a better return than ARam did.

 

Throw in the fact that if a team does trade for Carter they get him for more than just the rest of the season if they so choose meaning they can also play him more on their team or flip him for a return as well.

[MrTPlush]

Why does everyone think Chris Carter is so bad? Sure his average was probably too low last year, but before he put up respectable numbers. Sure his average is low and he strikes out quite a bit, but I know a lot of player who have zero power and can't draw a walk to save their lives that are considered good hitters. Yes he has two tools that are very bad, but he also has two very good tools in his power and ability to draw walks. If he hits .225 or above I think he can be considered a decent hitter.

 

Chris Carter has potential in his bat and has shown it in the past.

 

I don't agree however that a team will trade for him thinking they get more control past this year. I am going to bet his incentives are easy to reach(PAs etc.) and he will reach them. If that happens he will make closer to $5mil this year. I doubt any team will give him a raise to $7.5mil or more...I see him in the same situation next year unless he manages to hit .250 all year...which seems like a stretch, but possible.

[RobDeer 45]

I think this is just the type of signing we need. He will be fun to watch, doesn't hurt us in anyway. We will be well below average for awhile, so grabbing a guy that has potential trade value for a year is a solid move. If he stinks, it's not going to hurt us....we aren't going anywhere for awhile.

 

I was kind of hoping we'd sign him after I read another poster on here mention him.

[WV Brew]

Carter is an upgrade over Rogers and has some trade value if he has a decent start. Nothing but a positive turn of events.

 

Obviously, the Pirates disagree with your assessment. They could have had Carter without giving up anything.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think this is just the type of signing we need. He will be fun to watch, doesn't hurt us in anyway. We will be well below average for awhile, so grabbing a guy that has potential trade value for a year is a solid move. If he stinks, it's not going to hurt us....we aren't going anywhere for awhile.

 

I was kind of hoping we'd sign him after I read another poster on here mention him.

 

If he were lefthanded, I'd be hailing this as a nice pickup at the price. I just think it will be hard for all the RH hitters to maximize their performance (which still is important for potential trade purposes if not winning games) when there's no LH threat in the lineup. It just makes it way too easy on opposing pitchers to face a virtually all RH lineup many of whom are all or nothing types. Will there be some fun games where this team cracks 5-6 HR? Sure, but they'll be plenty of others when they fan 14-15 times and get shutout.

 

They deal Lind, who was the lone LH threat. Herrera was pretty good from the left side and he's gone. Villar too is a switch hitter, but he's tended to be better as a RH hitter. In CF they've added an athletic guy in Broxton with no major league experience, but he too hits RH. Only Gennett has any proven offensive talent from the left side and he's not a guy you stick in the middle of the order. Shane Peterson's still around and can probably be used a few times a week in various OF spots and 1B, but he's more a late inning PH and not a big power threat. Alex Presley is sort of the same guy as Peterson and he'll be in camp too. He may wind up playing CF if Broxton can't handle the job but I'm still hoping they reach out to a Venable who's got enough pop that he could be stuck in the 6th or 7th spot and break up the lineup a bit.

 

For those of you on here that say it doesn't really matter because the team's going nowhere that they aren't balanced. They still need for their players to maximize their performances. And being all RH won't help that occur.

[MrTPlush]

Carter is an upgrade over Rogers and has some trade value if he has a decent start. Nothing but a positive turn of events.

 

Obviously, the Pirates disagree with your assessment. They could have had Carter without giving up anything.

 

Except Chris Carter would cost them upwards of $5mil and would only be around a year before he is in non tender limbo again.

 

So it really isn't that simple. Especially since the Pirates are so cheap.

[JohnBriggs12]

Carter is an upgrade over Rogers and has some trade value if he has a decent start. Nothing but a positive turn of events.

 

Obviously, the Pirates disagree with your assessment. They could have had Carter without giving up anything.

 

Except Chris Carter would cost them upwards of $5mil and would only be around a year before he is in non tender limbo again.

 

So it really isn't that simple. Especially since the Pirates are so cheap.

 

Why would Carter have cost Pittsburgh twice what Brewers paid to get him? From what we've seen of Rogers, he appears to be a more well rounded hitter than Carter.