Brewers Sign Eric Young Jr. to minor league contract [Latest: traded to Yankees for cash; post 68]

[monty57]

Whoa. No anger here. Not one bit. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that Sterns is turning the MLB roster into the 2011-2013 Astros. The goal most certainly is to make the MLB roster the worst in baseball and that is a good thing in the long run. The model is quite apparent in the Cubs and Astros.

 

Just because I'm pointing out that these signings are bad baseball players does not mean I'm against the end game. Quite the opposite. I'm happy we aren't adding big contracts in a Herb Kohl type move to get to 500. We are adding horrible players who are cheap, not part of our future, and will lose a bunch of games.

 

I want the Brewers to have the first pick in the draft the next 2-3 years and this offseason is an excellent step in that direction.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you. When the Lind trade happened, you said something along the line of "I thought we were building for 2017, but now it doesn't look like we're doing that," and consequently have hammered the line that we're purposely "tanking" this season, so I thought you were upset about what's going on.

 

As to the "tanking," I don't think our opinions are all that different. I just look at tanking as purposefully throwing meatballs down the middle of the plate, or throwing the ball away on defense to allow runners to score. We are still going to try to win games, we just aren't going to be that good, so we won't win a whole lot.

 

As to the 94 loss season, I think Logan has a valid point. We greatly overachieved to start 2014 and ended up about where we expected at the end of the year. In 2015, we greatly underachieved to start the season, and all year I hoped we would sell off some good pieces before the players started playing to their ability and ended up around .500. I don't think it's a valid argument to say "we were a 94-loss team" and use that as the starting point for how many "wins we're losing" by not having certain players. From a true talent perspective, we were around a .500 team last year, and we have lost talent from that point.

 

I want to see what Broxton can do, but he will not match Gomez, so that's a loss. I think Cecchini could replace what we lost in Ramirez. Parra was playing corner OF, taking starts from Davis, so I don't think he's that hard to replace if we keep Davis and Braun. K-Rod was a closer on a losing team, so I don't think replacing him with one of our talented set-up men will cost us too many games. Our pitching should be better with the loss of Lohse, and Peralta, Garza and Nelson pitching better than they did last year. Therefore, if no more trades are made, I would argue that we would have a better record than we had last year.

 

Now, I think we will still trade Lucroy and one of Davis/Braun. That will of course hurt the 2016 roster, so I think we will be a sub-.500 team... we may even be a 100-loss team at that point, but I think our pitching will be good enough to keep us from that level. I don't see this as purposeful tanking to get the #1 pick, but rather trading guys who will not be part or our next good team for guys who could be core players for that next good team, while not wasting money and adding risk by obligating the team to a long-term, big money deal this offseason when it doesn't make sense.

 

I think picking up someone like Cecchini is "hunting for a gem" that could pay off if he regains his form. Signing someone like Young is simply looking for a versatile bench bat who has a good shot of ending up in AAA. Stearns needs to add value to the franchise any way he can, and one of those ways is picking up some scrap heap players to see who will fill out the roster in what looks to be a down year. Hopefully some of them pay off.

 

I personally would rather see Cecchini end up being a good 3B for us for the next half decade, and Peralta/Nelson/other young pitchers all pitch well, netting us the #3/4/5 pick than see them all crash and burn, bringing us the #1/2 pick.

[MNBrew]

I don't expect much out of EY jr. but I don't have any problem with the signing. I agree w/ Monty's logic above, and overall I really like what I'm seeing in Stearns' moves: viable/tradeable parts have been moved, including at least one unexpected one (Jason Rogers); the talent base has been broadened & elevated considerably; and his moves are bringing in either serious talent and potential "finds" at all levels of the minors up to the fringe of the MLB active roster.

 

Much has been made earlier in this thread -- and in many others -- about the Cubs/Astros model, and any sniff of a winning record going down the tubes for several years as the way to build (i.e., "total teardown"). There have been many questions as to the logic behind several of Stearns' moves this winter -- most ironic, it seems, when he seems to be taking the Brewers down the exact path many were clamoring for since August 2014.

 

To me, what I'm hoping for in Stearns and his vision is NOT following the Cubs/Astros model. The more copy-catting that goes on, the less likely any single team will succeed by following the "hot" model. Rather, I'm hoping Stearns' vision and its implementation and the results end up with the Brewers becoming the model other teams strive follow.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Nothing the team has done this offseason has a thing to do with winning in 2016 and 2017. You haven't wrapped your arms around the beauty of tanking which is the only scenario one would acquire the 28+ years olds we have in the quantity we have. These aren't Yuni and Casey around Braun and a Fielder, this is Bako and Houtson around Jeffrey Hammonds and Jose Hernandez.

 

You are reading way too much into these acquisitions. They happen every offseason, whether the Brewers are "going for it" or not. In the last two years, you've got Elian Herrera, Matt Pagnozzi, Irving Falu, Jeremy Hermida, Joe Thurston , Pete Orr, John Ely, Bryan Petersen, Shane Peterson and Chris Perez, among many others. Barring a rash of injuries, maybe one or two of them will see 100 at bats this year.

 

None of these signings or waiver claims point to losing being the goal of the strategy the front office is employing rather than just a likely result. Even the Cubs, who you often site, did things that don't point to pure tanking. They signed bounce-back candidates, who were more likely to produce wins than your standard AAAA guy. They took the occasional chance on a former highly thought of prospect who hadn't put it all together (the two strategies combined to net them Jake Arrieta).

 

Basically the way I see it, the rules likely are 1) Don't commit long-term money until your core is established and 2) Don't trade prospects to chase wins. Everything else is about chasing long-term value. If the record is awful, fine. If they somehow manage to go .500 or better, well that just means that either veterans have either upped their trade value or young players have established themselves as a part of the future.

[logan82]

Much has been made earlier in this thread -- and in many others -- about the Cubs/Astros model, and any sniff of a winning record going down the tubes for several years as the way to build (i.e., "total teardown"). There have been many questions as to the logic behind several of Stearns' moves this winter -- most ironic, it seems, when he seems to be taking the Brewers down the exact path many were clamoring for since August 2014.

Different people. Some never wanted to tear down or didn't think they needed to. Most of the posters I remember wanting things to change have been in favor of most of Stearns' moves. The people I see who seem to dislike the moves are the usual suspects and some of the newer posters.

[QuevedosTongue]

I still think the acquisitions of players who are capable of playing multiple positions has been done just to give the Brewers roster flexibility as Stearns re-tools this team. By acquiring this type of player, the team can afford to deal any individual player who has value (including some acquired recently) without worrying about who is going to replace them. I think it's likely that one or two of the retreads they've signed overachieves this season and has value at the deadline.

 

As far as the record in 2016, I don't care. I'd be happy if they field a team that plays hard and plays fundamentally sound baseball. If you think tanking is defined as wisely not spending money to foolishly chase 81 wins, then yes, they're tanking. I'd rather see them build the roster this way right now, with the idea that they'll spend money when it makes more sense a couple years down the road.

 

Talent-wise, I think Arcia will bring every bit of value that Braun or Fielder did, based on playing a premium position and being an excellent defender. He doesn't have to hit what they did to be as, or even more, valuable. In fact, I'll be disappointed if he doesn't exceed Fielder's value (17.5 WAR over his last 5 seasons in Milwaukee) if he stays healthy. A good glove and a .700 OPS would likely put him at the 2.5 WAR level, I don't think I'm being unreasonable to hope for more than that.

[Jenkins5]

Tanking is pretty useless in baseball. I don't think what-so-ever in DS & his staffs minds they even have that thought in their minds they are tanking for draft picks. If so....they are idiots because this is not the NFL or NBA where you can tank, get a top pick and expect All-Pro performances to turn around your franchise in 1-3 years. Many of these top picks won't even be ready to be called up for 2-4 years then there is very little guarantee. Right now they are bringing in players who fit the profile they are looking for, many of whom were once high upside-top 10 type prospects in former systems, creating as much competition as possible and hoping a few of them pan out.

 

As of today, we have yet to sell off any of our biggest trade assets. Lucroy, Davis, Smith, Jeffress, Segura, Peralta, Gennett, maybe Braun & Garza are all on this team. Hard to discuss us tanking for draft picks (outrageously dumb in baseball) when all he have done is trade Lind (was only retained in order to trade), Sardinas (utility player), Rogers (no defense platoon bat), Cy Sneed (middling prospect), some cash (who cares), got two rule 5 picks, and filled roster with some former high end prospects who either haven't gotten a real opportunity yet or have struggled in their smaller sample sizes. Eric Young Jr brings top end speed and position flexibility. Will he make the team....who know, who cares, this is a competition move. Minor League Deals, waiver claims, and selling of guys who really are not important to the team hardly say we are trying to "tank" Lucroy, Braun, Davis, Segura, Gennett, Smith, Jeffress, Blazek, Garza, Peralta, are all still on this team now 6-8 weeks until everyone begins to report to spring training. If this was the fire sale and major tank job so many people are claiming....that list would be half traded off by now.

[Boomer5]

Whoa. No anger here. Not one bit. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that Sterns is turning the MLB roster into the 2011-2013 Astros. The goal most certainly is to make the MLB roster the worst in baseball and that is a good thing in the long run. The model is quite apparent in the Cubs and Astros.

 

Just because I'm pointing out that these signings are bad baseball players does not mean I'm against the end game. Quite the opposite. I'm happy we aren't adding big contracts in a Herb Kohl type move to get to 500. We are adding horrible players who are cheap, not part of our future, and will lose a bunch of games.

 

I want the Brewers to have the first pick in the draft the next 2-3 years and this offseason is an excellent step in that direction.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you. When the Lind trade happened, you said something along the line of "I thought we were building for 2017, but now it doesn't look like we're doing that," and consequently have hammered the line that we're purposely "tanking" this season, so I thought you were upset about what's going on.

 

As to the "tanking," I don't think our opinions are all that different. I just look at tanking as purposefully throwing meatballs down the middle of the plate, or throwing the ball away on defense to allow runners to score. We are still going to try to win games, we just aren't going to be that good, so we won't win a whole lot.

 

As to the 94 loss season, I think Logan has a valid point. We greatly overachieved to start 2014 and ended up about where we expected at the end of the year. In 2015, we greatly underachieved to start the season, and all year I hoped we would sell off some good pieces before the players started playing to their ability and ended up around .500. I don't think it's a valid argument to say "we were a 94-loss team" and use that as the starting point for how many "wins we're losing" by not having certain players. From a true talent perspective, we were around a .500 team last year, and we have lost talent from that point.

 

I want to see what Broxton can do, but he will not match Gomez, so that's a loss. I think Cecchini could replace what we lost in Ramirez. Parra was playing corner OF, taking starts from Davis, so I don't think he's that hard to replace if we keep Davis and Braun. K-Rod was a closer on a losing team, so I don't think replacing him with one of our talented set-up men will cost us too many games. Our pitching should be better with the loss of Lohse, and Peralta, Garza and Nelson pitching better than they did last year. Therefore, if no more trades are made, I would argue that we would have a better record than we had last year.

 

Now, I think we will still trade Lucroy and one of Davis/Braun. That will of course hurt the 2016 roster, so I think we will be a sub-.500 team... we may even be a 100-loss team at that point, but I think our pitching will be good enough to keep us from that level. I don't see this as purposeful tanking to get the #1 pick, but rather trading guys who will not be part or our next good team for guys who could be core players for that next good team, while not wasting money and adding risk by obligating the team to a long-term, big money deal this offseason when it doesn't make sense.

 

I think picking up someone like Cecchini is "hunting for a gem" that could pay off if he regains his form. Signing someone like Young is simply looking for a versatile bench bat who has a good shot of ending up in AAA. Stearns needs to add value to the franchise any way he can, and one of those ways is picking up some scrap heap players to see who will fill out the roster in what looks to be a down year. Hopefully some of them pay off.

 

I personally would rather see Cecchini end up being a good 3B for us for the next half decade, and Peralta/Nelson/other young pitchers all pitch well, netting us the #3/4/5 pick than see them all crash and burn, bringing us the #1/2 pick.

 

Oh I was defiantly not a fan of the Lind trade. I saw our mid season deals as tooling up for 2017 but the Lind trade was a clear sign that wasn't the case. Even if you like those 3 teens, and there is no way we could evaluate them at all, none are useful for 4+ years.

 

Then the wave of terrible players came one after the other and it became clear. Stearns is going for the Houston model.

 

In football or basketball, those teams have hard caps. We don't. The ONLY way we can compete with the elites is build a top 1-3 farm system. And the ONLY way to do that is have a pile of bonus pool money to do that.

 

Tanking worked in Houston, it worked in Chicago, and it worked in Milwaukee with the Dean Taylor rosters. It going to work again here.

[WV Brew]

Tanking worked in Houston

 

It did? 6 straight losing seasons, 3 with 100+ losses netted them one 86 win season so far.

[JohnBriggs12]

Tanking worked in Houston

 

It did? 6 straight losing seasons, 3 with 100+ losses netted them one 86 win season so far.

 

Not to mention attendence falling way off in a major market and not really coming back all that strong despite the 2015 being in first place most of the season.

[JohnBriggs12]

Its not too late to put a decent team on the field for 2016. Sign Fowler, Alvarez, and Latos to short term deals and it's suddently a mid pack roster with 3 guys who can be flipped a year from now.

[RobertR]

I don't share the optimism that we can assume the starting pitching will be noticeably better this year. Jungmann in particular could regress some. Young pitching will break your heart is a cliché but it's often true.

 

Couple that with a questionable infield and center field and I really don't see a scenario that's anything other than bad. It certainly doesn't look like the defense will help the pitching staff either.

 

I guess that's okay in the long run but I can't blame anyone for not paying big league prices for a team that may field a AAA quality roster. Hopefully they're not unwatchable.

[logan82]

I still think there is reason to believe they will win more games in 2016 than they did in 2015. They played much worse than their talent to begin the season.

[3and2Fastball]

I still think there is reason to believe they will win more games in 2016 than they did in 2015. They played much worse than their talent to begin the season.

 

That is difficult to imagine considering the personnel losses they have had and the lack of upgrade in pitching. I like your optimism but I have a hard time seeing where it adds up.

 

I think, considering the age and injury issues with the most important pieces of 2015 (Braun/Lind/Gomez/Lucroy), the Brewers ended up being exactly what they were.

 

Hey I predicted them at 82 wins, too, but like many many others I was wrong.

 

MLB is trending younger. Lucroy & Braun are on the wrong side of their prime, the rest of the roster is at or below average (other than perhaps Davis, speaking strictly in regards to offense) and the Crew plays in a tough division.

 

We'll see what the rest of the offseason has in store but this looks like a 100 loss team, to me.

[Mass Haas]

Nice little story via EY Jr.

[monty57]

Nice little story via EY Jr.

 

That's well written. You get so used to acronyms and misspellings in social media, it's refreshing to see someone who actually cares about our language. I like this guy.

[djoctagone]

young likely just fell short of six years of major league service time; otherwise his contract would've mandated an opt-out date.

 

he's ticketed to colorado springs. it should be noted that if he appears in the big leagues this year, he'll likely get that service time bump and would qualify as an article xx(b) free agent for 2017 (and thus would earn an opt-out date if signed to a minor league contract with an invitation to major league spring training). this, of course, could be all moot if article xx(b) is changed in the new collective bargaining agreement.

[1992casey]

Cot's says that Eric is at 5 years and 52 days as of the end of 2015.

[djoctagone]

traded to the yankees for cash. i don't think anyone expected his contract to be selected by the brewers this year, but this assures he won't don a big league uniform for the brewers in 2016.

[logan82]

I still think there is reason to believe they will win more games in 2016 than they did in 2015. They played much worse than their talent to begin the season.

 

That is difficult to imagine considering the personnel losses they have had and the lack of upgrade in pitching. I like your optimism but I have a hard time seeing where it adds up.

 

I think, considering the age and injury issues with the most important pieces of 2015 (Braun/Lind/Gomez/Lucroy), the Brewers ended up being exactly what they were.

 

Hey I predicted them at 82 wins, too, but like many many others I was wrong.

 

MLB is trending younger. Lucroy & Braun are on the wrong side of their prime, the rest of the roster is at or below average (other than perhaps Davis, speaking strictly in regards to offense) and the Crew plays in a tough division.

 

We'll see what the rest of the offseason has in store but this looks like a 100 loss team, to me.

Pretty damn close to the same win % right now. .420 last year .424 this year.

[MrTPlush]

I still think there is reason to believe they will win more games in 2016 than they did in 2015. They played much worse than their talent to begin the season.

 

That is difficult to imagine considering the personnel losses they have had and the lack of upgrade in pitching. I like your optimism but I have a hard time seeing where it adds up.

 

I think, considering the age and injury issues with the most important pieces of 2015 (Braun/Lind/Gomez/Lucroy), the Brewers ended up being exactly what they were.

 

Hey I predicted them at 82 wins, too, but like many many others I was wrong.

 

MLB is trending younger. Lucroy & Braun are on the wrong side of their prime, the rest of the roster is at or below average (other than perhaps Davis, speaking strictly in regards to offense) and the Crew plays in a tough division.

 

We'll see what the rest of the offseason has in store but this looks like a 100 loss team, to me.

Pretty damn close to the same win % right now. .420 last year .424 this year.

 

Not sure you noticed but his comment is from January.

[djoctagone]

at first, i was puzzled by the logic of this move. but then i looked at the standings. i didn't know that the yankees were in the wild card race. should the yankees reach the postseason, after certain conditions were met, young jr. would be eligible to play for the yankees, because he was part of their organization on 31 august.

[Crash2303]

I'm calling it right now- David Stearns to the Yankees whenever Cashman steps down or is canned- and they will point back to this trade as the beginning of that mutual interest

[MoreTrife]

I'm calling it right now- David Stearns to the Yankees whenever Cashman steps down or is canned- and they will point back to this trade as the beginning of that mutual interest

 

 

Gahhh!! I don't like that.