Ryan Zimmerman, Ryan Howard, Peyton Manning, Others linked to HGH and other drugs

[Point Beer Is Best]

NFL games this season are averaging 3 hours and 12 minutes this season. In 2014, MLB games averaged 3 hours and 2 minutes. Fast paced is a subjective opinion, but I think that NFL games have a ton of standing around with players doing nothing.

 

No kidding. Football games today consist of 10 seconds of actual play, the refs standing around talking for 2 minutes, a challenge, a review, the refs standing and discussing things with coaches, then a huddle, then the players get set for the next play only to call a timeout because they play clock is about to hit 0 then after another minute or two another 10 second play. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Glass houses. There's not too much difference between the two. Per a 2013 WSJ study, baseball games feature 18 minutes of actual action with the ball in play (which would include each pitch, not just a batted ball in play). In a similar WSJ study from 2010, NFL games feature 11 minutes. Which means for both sports, you are spending the vast majority of the game (3 hours or more) watching people standing around or in a commercial break.

 

Either way, I don't think there's a correlation between game pace/action and the enjoyment of the sport. Otherwise we'd all be huge basketball & soccer fans. I think people have other issues with blame pacing, without understanding that both are pretty similar in terms of when something meaningful happens on the field.

[Thurston Fluff]

NFL games this season are averaging 3 hours and 12 minutes this season. In 2014, MLB games averaged 3 hours and 2 minutes. Fast paced is a subjective opinion, but I think that NFL games have a ton of standing around with players doing nothing.

 

No kidding. Football games today consist of 10 seconds of actual play, the refs standing around talking for 2 minutes, a challenge, a review, the refs standing and discussing things with coaches, then a huddle, then the players get set for the next play only to call a timeout because they play clock is about to hit 0 then after another minute or two another 10 second play. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Glass houses. There's not too much difference between the two. Per a 2013 WSJ study, baseball games feature 18 minutes of actual action with the ball in play (which would include each pitch, not just a batted ball in play). In a similar WSJ study from 2010, NFL games feature 11 minutes. Which means for both sports, you are spending the vast majority of the game (3 hours or more) watching people standing around or in a commercial break.

 

Either way, I don't think there's a correlation between game pace/action and the enjoyment of the sport. Otherwise we'd all be huge basketball & soccer fans. I think people have other issues with blame pacing, without understanding that both are pretty similar in terms of when something meaningful happens on the field.

 

I can't speak for Point Beer Is Best but I wasn't saying baseball is more action packed. Merely that football isn't any more so than baseball. I do think football has got to the point where there really isn't any flow to the game. Baseball on the other hand does IMHO. It shouldn't come as a surprise considering MLB has been actively working to create a better flow.

[danzig6767]

NFL games this season are averaging 3 hours and 12 minutes this season. In 2014, MLB games averaged 3 hours and 2 minutes. Fast paced is a subjective opinion, but I think that NFL games have a ton of standing around with players doing nothing.

No kidding. Football games today consist of 10 seconds of actual play, the refs standing around talking for 2 minutes, a challenge, a review, the refs standing and discussing things with coaches, then a huddle, then the players get set for the next play only to call a timeout because they play clock is about to hit 0 then after another minute or two another 10 second play. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I think a large factor in why football dominates ratings over baseball besides the 16 game schedule is women.

 

I know quite a few women in various age groups that get together with others and watch Packers games and buy Packers gear, but pretty much don't watch or follow other sports. My mom is a prime example. She gets together with a group of her friends and family for most Sunday Packer games, taking turns hosting the parties. On the flip side, i question if any of her female friends/family could name a single player on the Brewers or Bucks. If you were to ask them why, my money is on them all saying that baseball is boring.

 

I love both sports, but get why many find baseball boring. You really need to know the intricacies of the game to sit through multiple low scoring games and still find it interesting, especially if a baseball team isn't a contender. Pro football also has a ton of intricacies built into the game to really understand it well, but for casual fans who mainly just watch their home football team, the game itself can be understood decent enough and inherently has the type of exciting plays in most games to keep those casual fans locked in for three hours a week.

[BrewCrewForever]

I would be more shocked if we find out all these guys named didn't take anything. Chances are they did. I could care less one way or another, but I would bet more evidence comes up that all players named are guilty.

 

To me it's a where there is smoke, there is fire scenario. This Sly guy is similar to Tony Bosch. People thought he was a sleeze, creep and liar. Which he was, but he also was supplying athletes with PED's and Sly probably has as well.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm sure their relationships aren't the same but is there any chance Aaron Rodgers is as supportive of Matthews, Peppers, and Neal as he was of Braun?

[BrewCrewForever]

I'm sure their relationships aren't the same but is there any chance Aaron Rodgers is as supportive of Matthews, Peppers, and Neal as he was of Braun?

 

After he got burned last time, I highly doubt it.

[502 to Right]

Ryan Zimmerman and Ryan Howard have filed defamation lawsuits against Al Jazeera. That didn't take long.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14511191/ryan-zimmerman-ryan-howard-file-defamation-suits-vs-al-jazeera

 

Sly has since recanted the story and told Al Jazeera the statements attributed to him "are absolutely false and incorrect."

 

In the filing, Zimmerman's attorneys claim the "defendants knew full well that their 'source' [sly] had recanted his scandalous and untrue allegations against Mr. Zimmerman, but, abdicating all journalistic responsibilities, defendants nonetheless chose to publish their defamatory story in an attempt to stir scandal and increase Al Jazeera's low ratings, no matter the cost to Mr. Zimmerman."

[jerichoholicninja]

Such the double standard for PEDs in football vs baseball. After watching two weeks of Packers games since this thing came out I have yet to hear a peep about it during the game despite the Packers having 3 players named.

[502 to Right]

Such the double standard for PEDs in football vs baseball. After watching two weeks of Packers games since this thing came out I have yet to hear a peep about it during the game despite the Packers having 3 players named.

 

I agree 100%. I remember a few years ago Brian Cushing won the Defensive Rookie of the Year award and it came out after the season that he popped for PED use during the season. A collective yawn from NFL writers and fans was the response. No stripping of the award. Nothing. If that happened in baseball the PED user would be burned in effigy.

[CheezWizHed]

Such the double standard for PEDs in football vs baseball. After watching two weeks of Packers games since this thing came out I have yet to hear a peep about it during the game despite the Packers having 3 players named.

 

First game after the report, they did talk about it during the game. But only the first game.

[sveumrules]

Such the double standard for PEDs in football vs baseball. After watching two weeks of Packers games since this thing came out I have yet to hear a peep about it during the game despite the Packers having 3 players named.

 

I agree 100%. I remember a few years ago Brian Cushing won the Defensive Rookie of the Year award and it came out after the season that he popped for PED use during the season. A collective yawn from NFL writers and fans was the response. No stripping of the award. Nothing. If that happened in baseball the PED user would be burned in effigy.

 

Minor quibble, but the best part about the Cushing ROY was that after he whizzed hot the AP decided to revote for the award....and Cushing won the revote too.

[502 to Right]

Such the double standard for PEDs in football vs baseball. After watching two weeks of Packers games since this thing came out I have yet to hear a peep about it during the game despite the Packers having 3 players named.

 

I agree 100%. I remember a few years ago Brian Cushing won the Defensive Rookie of the Year award and it came out after the season that he popped for PED use during the season. A collective yawn from NFL writers and fans was the response. No stripping of the award. Nothing. If that happened in baseball the PED user would be burned in effigy.

 

Minor quibble, but the best part about the Cushing ROY was that after he whizzed hot the AP decided to revote for the award....and Cushing won the revote too.

 

I had completely forgotten about the revote. I just remembered that he never lost the award.

 

Yes, double standard indeed.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I believe after the Cushing incident (combined with other similar situations), the NFL attempted to rectify that by declaring any player who had been suspended for PED's would be disqualified from post-season accolades such as the Pro Bowl. I think that extends to awards such as MVP and ROY, but I'm not sure. I think many of those voters wanted to change their votes, but the fact that such a situation was unprecedented swayed them to keep the vote the same.

 

John Kuhn being named to the Pro Bowl as a replacement for the now-suspended Marcel Reece is an example of this new program.

[DuWayne Steurer]

They're all totally believable.

 

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/644/819/palmeiro_congress_original.jpg?1355202813

[502 to Right]

They're all totally believable.

 

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/644/819/palmeiro_congress_original.jpg?1355202813

 

 

Certainly a host of athletes have lied about PED use (Armstrong, Braun, Palmiero, etc.), but I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to an athlete who denies use where the accuser has completely recanted.

 

We live in a world where TV networks/media outlets put the truth on the back burner when ratings/clicks are to be had.

[502 to Right]

Al Jazeera America shutting down.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/13/media/al-jazeera-america/index.html

[homer]

Al Jazeera America shutting down.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/13/media/al-jazeera-america/index.html

 

 

"There is no link between the controversy and the channel's closure, however. The investigative unit that produced the doping documentary will remain in operation."

[502 to Right]

Al Jazeera America shutting down.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/13/media/al-jazeera-america/index.html

 

 

"There is no link between the controversy and the channel's closure, however. The investigative unit that produced the doping documentary will remain in operation."

 

That's good. Remaining in operation will make scheduling depositions easier for Howard and Zimmerman.

[SRB]

I can't believe there are people who actually believe Howard/Zimmerman in this whole thing.

[502 to Right]

I can't believe there are people who actually believe Howard/Zimmerman in this whole thing.

 

I'm not sure if you're talking to me. I don't know if Howard/Zimmerman did or did not obtain PED's. But the story is so poorly supported I'm not going to assume they did.

[LouisEly]

SRB thinks anyone who hit more than 20 home runs in a season during the last 25 years took PEDs.

[SRB]

I can't believe there are people who actually believe Howard/Zimmerman in this whole thing.

 

I'm not sure if you're talking to me. I don't know if Howard/Zimmerman did or did not obtain PED's. But the story is so poorly supported I'm not going to assume they did.

 

It's actually not poorly supported at all if you look into it further than how the ESPN machine has been ignoring it. Peyton Manning more or less admitted that he received drugs from this guy, he just hid behind his "wife's privacy". And the Al Jazeera source is not some random crazy, but is a business partner of a trainer in Florida who is specifically linked to most of the (randomly selected) players that were named.

 

SRB thinks anyone who hit more than 20 home runs in a season during the last 25 years took PEDs.

 

I'm not sure what you're basing this on? But in any event, I do think a very large number of professional athletes and MLB players are routinely taking banned substances. I find it hard to believe that many players in the NFL are not on banned substances. Drug testing (to the extent it is even consistently applied) is just a charade to reassure an uneducated public.

[jerichoholicninja]

Drug testing (to the extent it is even consistently applied) is just a charade to stroke the superiority complex of sports writers.

 

Fixed that for you.

[LouisEly]

I'm not sure what you're basing this on? But in any event, I do think a very large number of professional athletes and MLB players are routinely taking banned substances.

I think you just answered your own question. My question is what evidence do you have of this other than accusations?

 

The MLB HR rate/AB 2013-2015: 2.77%

 

The MLB HR rate/AB 1955-1960 (pre-1961/62 expansion): 2.64%

 

Now factor in advances in strength training, nutrition, video analysis of pitchers, pitchers throwing harder, ballparks in thinner/higher altitudes (Colorado, Arizona), smaller ballparks (Cincinnati, RF in the new Yankee stadium), lowering the mound, ballparks with retractable roofs (less playing in adverse weather conditions), playing with fewer hangovers because of not going on as many benders the night before...

[SRB]

I'm not sure what you're basing this on? But in any event, I do think a very large number of professional athletes and MLB players are routinely taking banned substances.

I think you just answered your own question. My question is what evidence do you have of this other than accusations?

 

The MLB HR rate/AB 2013-2015: 2.77%

 

The MLB HR rate/AB 1955-1960 (pre-1961/62 expansion): 2.64%

 

Now factor in advances in strength training, nutrition, video analysis of pitchers, pitchers throwing harder, ballparks in thinner/higher altitudes (Colorado, Arizona), smaller ballparks (Cincinnati, RF in the new Yankee stadium), lowering the mound, ballparks with retractable roofs (less playing in adverse weather conditions), playing with fewer hangovers because of not going on as many benders the night before...

 

Just citing HR rate is totally irrelevant. If you had actually read my post history you would know that (1) I don't think steroids actually improve baseball performance all that much, (2) I don't personally care one way or the other who is or who is not taking banned substances. I was one of a handful of people on this web forum who consistently defended Ryan Braun since day 1, who does not care whatsoever what Ryan Braun did or not do, and who hates the mainstream baseball press for their ridiculous crusade, so your original accusation is a little confusing.

 

That said, anyone who has any contact with modern athletics, weight training, etc., knows that the use of substances banned by MLB rules is widespread. Testing is an absolute joke because it is only a test for finding which player is stupid enough to screw up his routine for evading the tests (which is what apparently happened with Braun). I don't think modern athletes' physiques are natural, and I find it hard to believe that the majority of them are achieved through above board training alone. Sorry if that shatters any illusions about us still living in a world where baseball players are normal guys who work as mechanics in the offseason.